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the state of the center
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djsunyc
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6/13/2006  10:17 AM
let's look at the centers in the playoffs this year:

det - ben
mia - shaq
nj - krstic
cle - big z
was - haywood
ind - foster
chi - chandler
mil - magloire

sas - rasho
pho - diaw
den - camby
dal - diop/dampier
mem - wright
lac - kaman
lal - kwame
sac - miller

by looking at that list - shaq and big z are the last of the post-up 1/2 court center breed. the majority of the others are either defensive shotblockers, dirty/scrappy, or highly skilled. and the lower tier (rasho, wright, etc.) have a superstar next to them at the PF spot.

the position is evolving and the days of the 1/2 court dump it down to the center are dwindling.

which leads me to eddy curry. how does he fit in the changing landscape of the league? we know that he is a not a defensive center nor is he a shotblocker. he is athletic but is not skilled enough to take advantage of it. his game is really just about dunking or the occasional alley oop - a glorified nazr. he takes forever to get into his move so he can be easily double teamed and since he is VERY turnover prone, his presence can hurt us at times.
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crzymdups
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6/13/2006  11:35 AM
...and yet, Dallas couldn't stop Curry when they came into the Garden in January and we beat them. Curry is far more athletic than any other big his size. He can overpower teams. For all this talk about the new NBA, the Suns couldn't handle him in January either. He dominated Kaman. Calling him a "Glorified Nazr" is ridiculous, they're completely different players.

The key for Eddy to learn to be effective is to learn when and how to pass out of the double team and for the offensive players around him to learn how to space themselves. Amare is pretty dominant on the low post, so is Duncan. Diaw posts up quite a bit in the Suns offense. The post-up is one of the best ways to break down a zone.

Curry has a lot to learn, but to say he can't learn it is ridiculous. Ewing went from being a horrible passer early in his career to eventually becoming quite adept at passing out of the double team. Same with Shaq. Big men have so much to learn that it takes time.

I think Curry is an extremely valuable player. Is it 100% that he realizes his potential? no. But if he does, watch out.
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newyorknewyork
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6/13/2006  11:56 AM
Curry can fit. He fit in with Chi the season before this. He was never a good dump it down to and post up type of player anyway. I give Curry the benifit of the doubt on last season. He didn't work out in the offseason, because of what was going on with his heart. And he had nagging injuries because he was out of shape. And then he was put in position of weakness when we played the games.

He is a glorified Muhammad, but then again he is not. As no teams feared Narz. No teams game planned for Narz. Curry has an impact as few can matchup with him in this league when he is on the block on offense. But you can't run you offense through Curry. If a team has to worry about your guards ability to score. But then also have to worry about the big man in the middle doing damage because of the attention the guards are forcing there opponents to give them. Then your in good shape.

He played well in a peppy/scrappy style of play with the Bulls. And he played well when the Knicks played peppy basketball for 6games. He is an impactfull role player that we overpayed for hoping he reached his potential. We can't depend on him to ever be a shotblocker/rebounder or be cappable of running an offense from the post. But He is cappable of being a 18pt 7reb center.

Marbury-Crawford-Richardson-Frye-Curry should be a very potent offensive attack. If we had a pass first defensive PG to slide Marbs to SG. A pure defensive minded, rebounding, weakside shotblocking, theif at SF. And 2 backup defensive rebounding, shotblockers. We could bridge the gap between offense and defense and be a pretty good team. And then when we are flexible enough we could make the adjustments to turn into a great team. The problem is Francis, Rose 1 & 2, Taylor, Jerome James. Yes Marbury isn't the leader you would want, but he is one guy that isn't going to be moved because of his contract. So might as well put in him a better position.

Crawford-Richardson-Frye-Curry-Lee are all very young. If we start building toward that above today. We could be a very good team in a few yrs.
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Rich
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6/13/2006  11:56 AM
The other key is for Curry to stay out of foul trouble in the first few minutes of the 1st Q.
bigbeast
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6/13/2006  12:10 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

...and yet, Dallas couldn't stop Curry when they came into the Garden in January and we beat them. Curry is far more athletic than any other big his size. He can overpower teams. For all this talk about the new NBA, the Suns couldn't handle him in January either. He dominated Kaman. Calling him a "Glorified Nazr" is ridiculous, they're completely different players.

The key for Eddy to learn to be effective is to learn when and how to pass out of the double team and for the offensive players around him to learn how to space themselves. Amare is pretty dominant on the low post, so is Duncan. Diaw posts up quite a bit in the Suns offense. The post-up is one of the best ways to break down a zone.

Curry has a lot to learn, but to say he can't learn it is ridiculous. Ewing went from being a horrible passer early in his career to eventually becoming quite adept at passing out of the double team. Same with Shaq. Big men have so much to learn that it takes time.

I think Curry is an extremely valuable player. Is it 100% that he realizes his potential? no. But if he does, watch out.

Exactly....and I don't understand the urgency of some you guys that want to ship Curry out of here. He's a 23 yr old beast in the post. Does he have lots of work to do? Absolutely. He needs to learn how to turn over his right shoulder and finish with the left hand as aopposed to bullrushing over defenders with his left shoulder. He also needs to improve his Freethrow shooting because he lives at the line.

But you don't give up on a physically imposing big man like Curry. There aren't that many to go around.

And compairing him to Nazr isn't being fair.....teams had to gameplan (double team) Curry before and after he recived the ball. You don't game plan for Nazr.........Curry has the ability to put teams whole front lines in foul trouble as he did in the first half at San Antonio......

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
nixluva
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6/13/2006  12:40 PM
Curry actually does better when we don't ALWAYS try to force it in to him. When the offense provides some misdirection and we set him up off of penetration, he's unstoppable. We need to do that more and more. The games when we had our guards being aggressive and looking to penetrate and dish are when we were most effective. We have guards that are TOUGH to stay in front of and yet all I hear is how we need some Pure PG to set up our players. NO YOU DON'T. You just need player movement and ball movement and mix that with penetration by our quick guards and you'll be able to beat most defenses. I HATE it when we look to post and all the other guys just stand around looking inside. That almost never works. Curry is agile enough to get the ball on the move and finish as well as pure post ups. All of our bigs seem to have good hands and when our guards look to set them up for easy baskets our offense looks great. I'd rather the team play with more aggression and instinct. Sure you need to think the game but you can't completely lose the natural part of the game that comes from playing all your life. Too often our guys were out there thinking too much. Curry in my estimation will be fine. He should be better as he continues along in his career and I expect that he'll be a bit lighter this year anyway. We all know that even as heavy as he was he's still very agile, so you can imagine what he'll be able to do when he's really in shape.
NYKniCksFan87
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6/13/2006  12:44 PM
this is a ridiculous post, no disrespect to you dj, but come on now, hes still young and he came straight outta high school, the man has dominated teams singlehandedly and also he was giving ben wallace ahard time when they faced off at the garden on pattys day,

Curry will do well, we just need to be patient with him, im sure he will improve with time
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
djsunyc
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6/13/2006  12:52 PM
all of you are sounding sure that curry will improve and will become a better player than he is right now. i'm taking another approach. i see how he's been historically lazy, unmotivated, gets winded, and doesn't show up in shape and i'm not sold on him making these leaps many think he will. tim thomas never made that 2nd leap. only in contract seasons. and in eddy's case, he did the same thing.

like i said before, curry is 23 but tim thomas was 23 at one time also. i think he's a tease and ultimately, he won't be able to play more than 25-30 mins a night. we still need a bonafide backup to him and i'm not sure how much we can rely on him down the stretch of games, especially when he doesn't play on the other end of the court. (his reaction times are VERY slow).

we paid ALOT for him and if he's ultimately going to be a complimentary piece, then he IS a glorified nazr (and i'm talking about his role with the team).
tkf
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6/13/2006  1:10 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

...and yet, Dallas couldn't stop Curry when they came into the Garden in January and we beat them. Curry is far more athletic than any other big his size. He can overpower teams. For all this talk about the new NBA, the Suns couldn't handle him in January either. He dominated Kaman. Calling him a "Glorified Nazr" is ridiculous, they're completely different players.

The key for Eddy to learn to be effective is to learn when and how to pass out of the double team and for the offensive players around him to learn how to space themselves. Amare is pretty dominant on the low post, so is Duncan. Diaw posts up quite a bit in the Suns offense. The post-up is one of the best ways to break down a zone.

Curry has a lot to learn, but to say he can't learn it is ridiculous. Ewing went from being a horrible passer early in his career to eventually becoming quite adept at passing out of the double team. Same with Shaq. Big men have so much to learn that it takes time.

I think Curry is an extremely valuable player. Is it 100% that he realizes his potential? no. But if he does, watch out.

excellent post. I don't think the traditional center or the half court game is obsolete, I think there are a lack of players that can effectively play with a traditional back to the basket player and play the half court game. Everything now, is run and gun, I always feel a good halfcourt team, like detroit was last year and the year before, can beat anyone.....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BRIGGS
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6/13/2006  1:12 PM
No way. Now I dont like the NEOGTIATIONS of the Curry trade, but we invested so much into this--this guy has to be given EVERY opportunity to succeed. hes GREAT when he plays at his top level--well atleast offensivelyand as I am arguing about JR smith at 20----Curry is 23--now I expect Curry to STEP UP this YEAR--I think 5 yrs in the league 23 years old now time to get himself in shape--i think he better show more and I hold out all hope that he can score 20 points grab 7 rebounds and block a shot consistently---he has to imho--if he doesnt than guys in management should step down.

I dont agree with the guy who states we couldnt use a Marucs Williams type PG--he looks for other guys first--our guys look to shoot first. I have not seen our guys make other guys look better
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TMS
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6/13/2006  1:52 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

...and yet, Dallas couldn't stop Curry when they came into the Garden in January and we beat them. Curry is far more athletic than any other big his size. He can overpower teams. For all this talk about the new NBA, the Suns couldn't handle him in January either. He dominated Kaman. Calling him a "Glorified Nazr" is ridiculous, they're completely different players.

The key for Eddy to learn to be effective is to learn when and how to pass out of the double team and for the offensive players around him to learn how to space themselves. Amare is pretty dominant on the low post, so is Duncan. Diaw posts up quite a bit in the Suns offense. The post-up is one of the best ways to break down a zone.

Curry has a lot to learn, but to say he can't learn it is ridiculous. Ewing went from being a horrible passer early in his career to eventually becoming quite adept at passing out of the double team. Same with Shaq. Big men have so much to learn that it takes time.

I think Curry is an extremely valuable player. Is it 100% that he realizes his potential? no. But if he does, watch out.



good post... i have little worries about Curry's offensive game... he's shown some flashes of being the dominant player we hope he'll grow into being... the only part of his game that concerns me right now is his defense, or lack thereof... even Ewing came into the league as a good defensive player & had great shotblocking instincts... Shaq had some of that too, as did the other great C's of that day (Hakeem, Deke, Alonzo, Robinson)... i don't think Curry will ever evolve into a defensive presence down low & that's a huge concern... this is why we need to target a physical, low post defender/shotblocker/rebounder to play alongside him.
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OngBok
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6/13/2006  2:01 PM
I think with a little patience, Curry will be fine
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
crzymdups
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6/13/2006  2:46 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

all of you are sounding sure that curry will improve and will become a better player than he is right now. i'm taking another approach. i see how he's been historically lazy, unmotivated, gets winded, and doesn't show up in shape and i'm not sold on him making these leaps many think he will. tim thomas never made that 2nd leap. only in contract seasons. and in eddy's case, he did the same thing.

like i said before, curry is 23 but tim thomas was 23 at one time also. i think he's a tease and ultimately, he won't be able to play more than 25-30 mins a night. we still need a bonafide backup to him and i'm not sure how much we can rely on him down the stretch of games, especially when he doesn't play on the other end of the court. (his reaction times are VERY slow).

we paid ALOT for him and if he's ultimately going to be a complimentary piece, then he IS a glorified nazr (and i'm talking about his role with the team).

To me, Curry gets a partial pass on last season: it was his first time living out of Chicago, a totally new team that Larry Brown did nothing to promote any sort of stability within (whether the general atmosphere of the team or like, setting a rotation, etc), Curry missed training camp, wasn't allowed to work out from March 30th to October 5th. So it was a lot of adjustments, one of which thinking he might die, his old team forcing him to take a genetic test that is illegal in 42 states, joining a new team where there was already a turf battle happening (Brown v. Marbury/Thomas), etc.

So, yeah, I give Curry a pass. As talented as Tim Thomas was, he has never ever scored 16ppg in this league or led the league in FG%. Curry did both of these by the time he was 22yrs old. He had a huge setback with the heart thing, but appears to be fine now. He's said he's going to work with the kids this summer so his conditioning should be back, his head should be in the right place, he should be better adjusted to NY. While that sounds like a bunch of excuses, this guy is a human, a 23yr old human and he went through a lot of sh!t in the last year. I have faith in him and I think this trade would have been a steal if Larry wasn't working so hard to make Isiah look bad and tank that pick.
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NYKBocker
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6/13/2006  2:46 PM
Curry needs a heart transplant. Pun intended.
crzymdups
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6/13/2006  2:48 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

Curry needs a heart transplant. Pun intended.

OMG! LOL! Good one! Wow, you don't see that kind of incisive humor on the internet too often! It's really funny when you can make fun of someone possibly dying! haha!
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McK1
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6/13/2006  2:55 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Curry missed training camp, wasn't allowed to work out from March 30th to October 5th.

Curry was cleared to resume workouts in July.


Chicago Sun-Times, Jul 1, 2005 by Lacy J. Banks

Bulls center Eddy Curry went through what a source close to the situation called a successful heart examination Thursday by renowned cardiologist David Cannom in Los Angeles.

Afterward, Curry was expected to return to Chicago.

Eddy said that the doctor told him his examinations went well, and he's real happy about that," the source said. He said he was cleared to play. Now he's looking forward to starting his workouts at the Berto Center as soon as possible."

and he was in Knicks training camp.

Eddy Curry Begins Practicing With Knicks

Charleston, SC, October 7, 2005 – The Eddy Curry era as a New York Knick began Friday night at the team’s training camp at the College of Charleston.
In fact, it officially started at 6:58 p.m., just moments after the NBA reviewed the Knicks’ medical team’s findings and cleared Curry to practice with his new team.




[Edited by - McK1 on 06-13-2006 2:57 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
crzymdups
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6/13/2006  3:00 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by crzymdups:

Curry missed training camp, wasn't allowed to work out from March 30th to October 5th.

Curry was cleared to resume workouts in July.


Chicago Sun-Times, Jul 1, 2005 by Lacy J. Banks

Bulls center Eddy Curry went through what a source close to the situation called a successful heart examination Thursday by renowned cardiologist David Cannom in Los Angeles.

Afterward, Curry was expected to return to Chicago.

Eddy said that the doctor told him his examinations went well, and he's real happy about that," the source said. He said he was cleared to play. Now he's looking forward to starting his workouts at the Berto Center as soon as possible."

and he was in Knicks training camp.

...hmm, he was cleared to work out, yet you used to like to tell me that doctors didn't clear him to play? so which is it?

I've heard he didn't work out all last summer. most likely that was because he didn't have a contract, and possibly had somethign to do with Paxson telling everyone Curry was going to die any moment without an (inconclusive) DNA test...
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bobs3304
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6/13/2006  3:00 PM
Curry for Dalembert baby!
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
crzymdups
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6/13/2006  3:00 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Curry for Dalembert baby!

gross. and if you think the Sixers wouldn't take that in a second, you're crazy.
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djsunyc
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6/13/2006  3:04 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by crzymdups:

Curry missed training camp, wasn't allowed to work out from March 30th to October 5th.

Curry was cleared to resume workouts in July.


Chicago Sun-Times, Jul 1, 2005 by Lacy J. Banks

Bulls center Eddy Curry went through what a source close to the situation called a successful heart examination Thursday by renowned cardiologist David Cannom in Los Angeles.

Afterward, Curry was expected to return to Chicago.

Eddy said that the doctor told him his examinations went well, and he's real happy about that," the source said. He said he was cleared to play. Now he's looking forward to starting his workouts at the Berto Center as soon as possible."

and he was in Knicks training camp.

...hmm, he was cleared to work out, yet you used to like to tell me that doctors didn't clear him to play? so which is it?

I've heard he didn't work out all last summer. most likely that was because he didn't have a contract, and possibly had somethign to do with Paxson telling everyone Curry was going to die any moment without an (inconclusive) DNA test...

history...history...history.

he has come into camp in shape only once, and that was two seasons ago, his contract year, with rumors swirling around about using an ephedra based product...which may have contributed to his heart condition.

we'll all find out within the next 4 months where he's at but i don't think anybody can confidently say that curry will show up in shape and be ready to roll.
the state of the center

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