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Who is responsible for the Steve Francis trade
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BasketballJones
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I keep reading in various threads that Larry Brown bears ultimate responsibility for the Steve Francis trade. Keep in mind that it may not turn out so bad in the long run if there is some plan to use him to attain some other, more desirable player. But for now, it doesn't look so good. So, who do you believe is responsible for that trade? Was it a bad trade? Did you always think it was a bad idea?
Larry Brown wanted Steve Francis
Isiah Thomas wanted Steve Francis
Brown and Thomas both wanted Steve Francis
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BasketballJones
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5/19/2006  2:45 PM
I think they worked together on this.
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Bonn1997
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5/19/2006  3:01 PM
Unless Brown lied, he obviously played a part in the decision (He "bugged" Isiah to get him as soon as he heard Francis was available). So response 2 wouldn't make sense.
Was it a bad trade?
Yes.
Did you always think it was a bad idea?
No, I was actually thinking Marbury and Francis could penetrate and draw a ton of fouls on opponents big men. They certainly have the talent to do that; just not the effort or attitude.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 05-19-2006 3:02 PM]
BlueSeats
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5/19/2006  3:03 PM
I've already weighed in that the jalen and francis trades where not for players but "assets" to be used to pursue a big fish between now and the deadline.

There are trades that Larry would have wanted if he knew he'd only be given one season to prove himself, and there are others he'd do thinking he's here for some years. I believe those trades fall into the latter, where he'd be satisfied to let isiah pursue KG and JO so he could coach them. But if he knew he had to salvage his season last year or be gone I certainly don't think those would be his guys.

Thus I see them as GM driven moves, by a high stakes gambler (isiah), that the coach signed off on since the present day alternatives were lacking (ie, unaccepted by other teams.)

Not sure which of your choices best represents that view so I wont formally vote.
Bippity10
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5/19/2006  4:05 PM
Who knows. Who cares.
I just hope that people will like me
Allanfan20
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5/19/2006  4:11 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Who knows. Who cares.

I'm with you. The GM made the trade regardless and it was a bad one, and now he looks extra bad firing Brown, whether it was Brown's decision or not. I hate this entire management crew. It's created such a terrible atmosphere, that I feel terrible for our rookies.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bippity10
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5/19/2006  4:13 PM
Yup. Those are the guys who we are destroying.
I just hope that people will like me
BlueSeats
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5/19/2006  4:14 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Bippity10:

Who knows. Who cares.

I'm with you. The GM made the trade regardless and it was a bad one, and now he looks extra bad firing Brown, whether it was Brown's decision or not. I hate this entire management crew. It's created such a terrible atmosphere, that I feel terrible for our rookies.

Thank you. It's a bad time to be recruiting anyone here, be they free agents, GMs or coaches. Our only "juice" is to overpay, and that's really not been working out for us.
Allanfan20
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5/19/2006  4:15 PM
The funny thing is that I actually thought LB handled them pretty well and set a pretty good standard for them. If LB goes, another guy I'm worried about is Jamal. He seems to have come a long way under Brown.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
djsunyc
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5/19/2006  4:15 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Yup. Those are the guys who we are destroying.

what's destroyed is the fanbase's spirit. does anybody think anything we do can actually work out for the best?

we are hoping...CLINGING to curry and frye b/c if they don't pan out, we're toast. each mistake in ny is so magnified b/c there's no plan. if there was a plan and it was stuck to, any mistake made could be recovered from. dumars drafted rodney white #9. he drafted darko #2. both are gone. two lottery picks. yet he stuck to his plan and neither pick crippled the team.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-19-2006 4:16 PM]
Bippity10
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5/19/2006  4:17 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

Yup. Those are the guys who we are destroying.

what's destroyed is the fanbase's spirit. does anybody think anything we do can actually work out for the best?

we are hoping...CLINGING to curry and frye b/c if they don't pan out, we're toast. each mistake in ny is so magnified b/c there's no plan. if there was a plan and it was stuck to, any mistake made could be recovered from. dumars drafted rodney white #9. he drafted darko #2. both are gone. two lottery picks. yet he stuck to his plan and neither pick crippled the team.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-19-2006 4:16 PM]

that too
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Pharzeone
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5/19/2006  4:20 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

Yup. Those are the guys who we are destroying.

what's destroyed is the fanbase's spirit. does anybody think anything we do can actually work out for the best?

we are hoping...CLINGING to curry and frye b/c if they don't pan out, we're toast. each mistake in ny is so magnified b/c there's no plan. if there was a plan and it was stuck to, any mistake made could be recovered from. dumars drafted rodney white #9. he drafted darko #2. both are gone. two lottery picks. yet he stuck to his plan and neither pick crippled the team.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-19-2006 4:16 PM]

DJ doesn't like Curry Frye people.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
fishmike
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5/19/2006  4:26 PM
dude, last I checked there was ONE and only ONE general manager of the New York Knicks. Therefore, there can only be one person responsible for any trade, roster move or free agent signed, and that is Isiah Thomas.

Get over this Larry is responsible for Francis/Rose crap. Isiah has last say, end of story. On a side note isnt getting Steve Francis 100% consistent with all of Isiah's other moves?
Steve quit on the Magic
the Magic didnt want Steve
He had a bad contract regarded around the league as very cap unfriendly and albatross
He's a scorer who needs the ball to be effective
He doesnt play defense
He's been a good player statistically while playing on losing teams
He used at least one young player or pick in the package to get him

Hmmm... sounds a lot like the kind of move that was happening well before Larry Brown got here.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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5/19/2006  4:43 PM
The Knicks sign him and Larry immediately doesn't play him. Where is the evidence that Larry is the one that orchestrated the trade? Do we know any of the truth about anything. Half the bad stuff about Isiah is nonsense. Half the stuff about LB is nonsense. IT's the papers writing stuff to sell papers and we buy it every day like Pavlov's dogs.

A coach has a list/type of player he wants. Every coach has this. Its' the GM's job to get some(not all) of these players. IT is the GM's job to hire a coach that has a vision and then fill that vision with players that fit. IF you don't want to do that, don't hire the friggin coach.
I just hope that people will like me
BlueSeats
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5/19/2006  5:05 PM
D'Antoni should have stuck with Steph, Penny and Googs. He's not a good coach if he couldn't make it work with those guys. Especially considering Nash is older than Cancerbury...
MX25
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5/19/2006  7:02 PM
Like Fishmike said this trade had Isiah written all over it. Isiah keeps getting guys who would be awesome in 2 on 2 street ball games and keeps thinking he can ghange them and make a team outta them. It won't happen. Keep Curry and Frye. Go out and get solid guys with good IQ who can play under a system.

Last season i wanted Isiah to go after Mike Miller,Earl Watson,Zaza Pachulia and Reggie Evans.
Bonn1997
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5/19/2006  7:50 PM
The Knicks sign him and Larry immediately doesn't play him. Where is the evidence that Larry is the one that orchestrated the trade?
Sounds like the first month of the Q Woods signing too!
BlueSeats
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5/19/2006  9:36 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
The Knicks sign him and Larry immediately doesn't play him. Where is the evidence that Larry is the one that orchestrated the trade?
Sounds like the first month of the Q Woods signing too!

That's when Ariza was getting a lot of minutes.
Bonn1997
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5/19/2006  10:19 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Bonn1997:
The Knicks sign him and Larry immediately doesn't play him. Where is the evidence that Larry is the one that orchestrated the trade?
Sounds like the first month of the Q Woods signing too!

That's when Ariza was getting a lot of minutes.
You could use the same logic and say "that's when Crawford and Nate were getting a lot of minutes" in response to the claim that it was strange Larry wouldn't play Francis if he wanted Francis. That claim would actually hold more validity than the claim that a 2nd round pick that Larry claims is delusional would get more minutes than someone Larry wanted.
Nalod
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5/19/2006  10:38 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
The Knicks sign him and Larry immediately doesn't play him. Where is the evidence that Larry is the one that orchestrated the trade?
Sounds like the first month of the Q Woods signing too!


Qdog had not been on an NBA roster in some time. he was not in shape nor did he have his timing down.

It was Reezy's job to lose and he gave it away.

I read Magic likely will offer Reezy the min or let him go.

I guess we can sign him back if Isiah really misses him. I like the kid. If we have a strong fundamentalist coach, he was found in need of many things. Emotionally he was immature.
Bonn1997
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5/19/2006  11:11 PM
he was not in shape
Really? It looked like he didn't have an once of fat and certainly didn't need months to get in shape
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