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Thomas Oozing Into the Hot Seat
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holfresh
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5/15/2006  1:12 AM
May 15, 2006
Sports of The Times
Thomas Oozing Into the Hot Seat
By SELENA ROBERTS

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J.

AS an awkward manipulator, Larry Brown is a career self-saboteur who may have unwittingly pushed Isiah Thomas out of the tunnel and into accountability.

For more than two years, the breezeway at Madison Square Garden has provided cover for Thomas as he scrutinized the Knicks at a safe distance from the blowouts and blunders.

The expensive misfits of Thomas's making were always the burden of the Knicks' coach of the day — whether Don Chaney, Lenny Wilkens, Herb Williams or Brown. Now, Thomas could be on the verge of naming himself the team's fifth head coach in less than three seasons if he can negotiate a $40 million buyout with Brown, as reported yesterday in The New York Post and The Daily News.

The owner, James L. Dolan, has never fretted over money — why worry when he can raise ticket prices or hike cable bills? — but even Richie Rich must have an allowance ceiling from Daddy Cablevision.

Why else would Thomas be forced to coach? It's either money or attrition. Are the Knicks running out of celebrity coaches willing to muddy their legacy at Madison Square Garden's dumping ground?

Brown may exit wealthy, but with his aura in tatters. As always, throughout his vagabond journeys, he undoes himself. Just never like this.

If Brown is out, he leaves having lost to soulless Garden politics over a wedge issue: Stephon Marbury.

Brown chose Marbury as a tool to pry Thomas from his perch. To Brown, Marbury and Thomas formed a special union. Marbury was Thomas's guy, his grand showpiece — and his albatross. And Marbury was Thomas's locker-room snoop, a player faithful to the end.

If Marbury was booted, Thomas would surely get his, too. So by maligning Marbury for his leadership, Brown was exposing Thomas for his rudderless strategy. By belittling Marbury for his approach to the game, Brown was taking a swipe at Thomas for his approach to team construction.

Brown's public complaints with Marbury — and, by extension, Thomas — were legitimate but not exceptionally smart.

Brown never anticipated two issues. First, the Garden credo is Survival of the Unctuous; and Thomas, with his press-on smile and iron-on loyalty, kissed the Gucci's of Dolan best. Second, Brown never figured Thomas would end up at the center of a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against Madison Square Garden.

That made Thomas impervious to firing. How could Dolan, who treated Anucha Brown-Sanders as an interloper to the Garden's inner circle, serve a pink slip to his beloved accused?

How could Dolan, who lauded Thomas for his character and job quality, dismiss Thomas for incompetence when that was the Garden's rap on Brown-Sanders?

Brown couldn't compete with Thomas in a replay of disingenuous reindeer games. Where hasn't Brown been knocked for his psychosomatic wanderlust? In Detroit, the invisible owner surfaced to impugn Brown's character upon his exit last year, and the Pistons' general manager, Joe Dumars, openly disputed Brown's version of events leading to his dismissal.

Where hasn't Thomas been branded a scoundrel? At every stop, from Toronto to the Continental Basketball Association to Indiana, Thomas left with his credibility at a deep deficit.

He may be out of escape hatches. For once, Thomas should have to confront his own chaos. In New York, that may mean coaching it. But don't confuse Thomas with the Heat's Pat Riley, who was on the sideline yesterday at Continental Arena, orchestrating a Heat victory against the Nets. But he was doing so out of choice, not necessity.

To reclaim his identity as a gilded coach, Riley slithered from executive suite to bench suit as he tapped the loyal Stan Van Gundy on his blue collar in December to break in, to dance on the sidelines with his Heat once again.

Riley dubbed the Heat a mess when he swooped down, but he was alone in his description. Most thought the Heat was a team in transition, one that would right itself once Antoine Walker & Company found a comfort zone.

With an 11-10 record, Van Gundy should not have been threatened, but Riley's ego can be a wrecking ball to common sense. Certainly, Riley and Thomas have the hubris gene in common, but there is an important difference. "I've coached for 22 years," Riley said, and without saying so raised Thomas's uninspired, if brief, coaching legacy at Indiana.

Riley isn't like Thomas. He didn't need coaching to validate himself, his moves, his genius. He returned to simply feel the sideline under his feet again. Riley has never fancied himself as a front-office tycoon, not the way Thomas does.

"If you're coaching, you can't be an executive," Riley said. "I've never been an executive. I'm not an executive."

But isn't Riley still listed as one in the Heat's hierarchy?

"I'm a coach who happens to have a title," he said, smiling. "That's different. I don't get paid any more for it, either."

Thomas shouldn't receive a coaching bonus, either. If Brown secures a buyout, Thomas should step out of the tunnel and onto the sideline to face a debacle of his design. This would be justice — awkwardly and unwittingly delivered by Brown.
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BlueSeats
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5/15/2006  3:56 AM
Selena Roberts is by far my favorite Knicks writer, and she sure didn't disappoint me there.
TMS
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5/15/2006  9:14 AM
this is how things are going to play out:

Marbury is going to play hard for Isiah next year... this team is going to win 40 games & squeek into the playoffs as a #8 seed, & Dolan is going to deem the season as an overwhelming success... this will go on for the next several years... 1st round exits in the playoffs & no hope for a title anytime soon... the more things change, the more they stay the same.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Killa4luv
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5/15/2006  9:45 AM
Posted by TMS:

this is how things are going to play out:

Marbury is going to play hard for Isiah next year... this team is going to win 40 games & squeek into the playoffs as a #8 seed, & Dolan is going to deem the season as an overwhelming success... this will go on for the next several years... 1st round exits in the playoffs & no hope for a title anytime soon... the more things change, the more they stay the same.

How were things going to play out with Brown?
I mean, how telling is it that all of the Brown supporters have predicted a playoff berth without 1 hypothetical change to the roster, only a change to the coach.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 05-15-2006 09:46 AM]
McK1
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5/15/2006  9:49 AM
Marbury playing hard won't matter. Playing hard means Statbury will return. He still won't defend, still won't hussle, still isn't a leader...but you can bet your bottom dollar 20 & 8 will be the stat line
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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5/15/2006  9:58 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by TMS:

this is how things are going to play out:

Marbury is going to play hard for Isiah next year... this team is going to win 40 games & squeek into the playoffs as a #8 seed, & Dolan is going to deem the season as an overwhelming success... this will go on for the next several years... 1st round exits in the playoffs & no hope for a title anytime soon... the more things change, the more they stay the same.

How were things going to play out with Brown?
I mean, how telling is it that all of the Brown supporters have predicted a playoff berth without 1 hypothetical change to the roster, only a change to the coach.

there's really no reason to debate this with you since nothing i say will register... you'll only hear what you want to hear... suffice it to say that i thought LB had a vision for this team... a vision for them to play team oriented style basketball... Isiah's vision? he wants to see his boy Marbury put up #'s & make him look like a genius for trading for him in the first place... Dolan's vision only concerns making the playoffs as quickly as possible, no matter if a future title is won or not... i've been there & done that w/this franchise.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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5/15/2006  9:59 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by TMS:

this is how things are going to play out:

Marbury is going to play hard for Isiah next year... this team is going to win 40 games & squeek into the playoffs as a #8 seed, & Dolan is going to deem the season as an overwhelming success... this will go on for the next several years... 1st round exits in the playoffs & no hope for a title anytime soon... the more things change, the more they stay the same.

How were things going to play out with Brown?
I mean, how telling is it that all of the Brown supporters have predicted a playoff berth without 1 hypothetical change to the roster, only a change to the coach.

killa, you ain't seeing the big picture. we are going to be right back to where we started in a few years with nothing but 2 extra home playoff games for 2 years to show for it.

there will be a bump next year...but the telling sign will be when the next bump never comes.

this franchise is in serious trouble and it's striving for mediocrity.

firing lb after this season is as shortsighted as one can be.
fishmike
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5/15/2006  10:05 AM
how was it going to play out with Larry? Well, the idea was either he would get guys to play hard on both ends, and play team ball. If he couldnt we would trade those players for guys that played hard on both ends and played team ball. That was "supposed" to be the direction of the team with Larry Brown. Now its back to Isiah mode which means adding bad/old/fat/overpaid centers and combo guards that are great scorers. Cant wait to see Kelvin Cato (full MLE) and Ben Gordon (Butler, 07 #1, Francis) next year. That should push us to the next level.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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5/15/2006  10:09 AM
exactly fish... though a Francis, #1 & Butler for Ben Gordon trade is a no brainer in my eyes, but that's a separate thread topic.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Nalod
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5/15/2006  10:10 AM
Larry told the truth. Should have kept it quiet, but he told the truth.

THe hating media knew Marbury and Larry could not work it out.

Why bring in Larry to coach this group and not expect this pain in the ass coach to want to change it.

This team needed an overhaul long before Larry got here.

Isiah will do better next year, but we cannot go the full distance with this level of organizational thinking.

KG will be here. All hail a new savior.

Right now I really don't like this team. I don't like the snake oil salesman in charge of this team for the villiage idiot.

bigbeast
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5/15/2006  11:17 AM
Posted by fishmike:

how was it going to play out with Larry? Well, the idea was either he would get guys to play hard on both ends, and play team ball. If he couldnt we would trade those players for guys that played hard on both ends and played team ball. That was "supposed" to be the direction of the team with Larry Brown. Now its back to Isiah mode which means adding bad/old/fat/overpaid centers and combo guards that are great scorers. Cant wait to see Kelvin Cato (full MLE) and Ben Gordon (Butler, 07 #1, Francis) next year. That should push us to the next level.


Trading for these supposed Larry Brown players are easier said than done especially when your using a bunch of bloated contracts as trade bait.

Larry wpould have been stuck with this team (save for maybe a tweak here or there)and it would have been that same result that you guys think will happen with Isiah at the helm. 8th Seed battles and first round ousters. Not to mention, his health issues would have kept him from completing his contract anyway and you can argue that LB would leave us in much worse shape than Isiah will, considering how much LB was pushing for Snow, Ratliff, Lynch and the rest of the over the hill garbage players that play Larry's-right-way.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
djsunyc
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5/15/2006  11:23 AM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by fishmike:

how was it going to play out with Larry? Well, the idea was either he would get guys to play hard on both ends, and play team ball. If he couldnt we would trade those players for guys that played hard on both ends and played team ball. That was "supposed" to be the direction of the team with Larry Brown. Now its back to Isiah mode which means adding bad/old/fat/overpaid centers and combo guards that are great scorers. Cant wait to see Kelvin Cato (full MLE) and Ben Gordon (Butler, 07 #1, Francis) next year. That should push us to the next level.


Trading for these supposed Larry Brown players are easier said than done especially when your using a bunch of bloated contracts as trade bait.

Larry wpould have been stuck with this team (save for maybe a tweak here or there)and it would have been that same result that you guys think will happen with Isiah at the helm. 8th Seed battles and first round ousters. Not to mention, his health issues would have kept him from completing his contract anyway and you can argue that LB would leave us in much worse shape than Isiah will, considering how much LB was pushing for Snow, Ratliff, Lynch and the rest of the over the hill garbage players that play Larry's-right-way.

isiah assembled this roster. he convinced dolan to spend hundreds of millions on it. now the coach wants to get rid of half of it. you think isiah is going to put his tail between his legs and go back to dolan and convince him to trade the very players he sold to him in the first place?

this has nothing to do with basketball. what an absolutely disgusting situation.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-15-2006 11:23 AM]
Pharzeone
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5/15/2006  11:31 AM
LOL, so if Brown turned the team next year it will be an improvement, seeing the "bigger picture" as DJ stated. But if the organization turns around under Thomas it is more of the same. Yeah that sounds about right, you guys aren't closed minded at all. Might as put up Islesfan poll what's more important Isiah's success or the Knicks success.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
djsunyc
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5/15/2006  11:35 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

LOL, so if Brown turned the team next year it will be an improvement, seeing the "bigger picture" as DJ stated. But if the organization turns around under Thomas it is more of the same. Yeah that sounds about right, you guys aren't closed minded at all. Might as put up Islesfan poll what's more important Isiah's success or the Knicks success.

do you think this team is built like a championship team? if so, then this is moot.

i don't think it is. and lb is asking for changes that will bring more defensive minded role players and a REAL point guard.

if we remove lb, and bring in isiah...all we will get is more sizzle and less steak.

what would we be building to? would isiah change his current philosophy of the starphuck? i don't think so. that's why it's different.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-15-2006 11:36 AM]
TMS
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5/15/2006  11:36 AM
the point isn't what the record would be next year... the big picture is what the future going forward would be like... would u rather have a team that's built to make the playoffs only, or a team built to win a championship? the philosophy has to change before we can build for the latter... LB's vision preached that type of philosophy.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Pharzeone
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5/15/2006  11:52 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Pharzeone:

LOL, so if Brown turned the team next year it will be an improvement, seeing the "bigger picture" as DJ stated. But if the organization turns around under Thomas it is more of the same. Yeah that sounds about right, you guys aren't closed minded at all. Might as put up Islesfan poll what's more important Isiah's success or the Knicks success.

do you think this team is built like a championship team? if so, then this is moot.

i don't think it is. and lb is asking for changes that will bring more defensive minded role players and a REAL point guard.

if we remove lb, and bring in isiah...all we will get is more sizzle and less steak.

what would we be building to? would isiah change his current philosophy of the starphuck? i don't think so. that's why it's different.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-15-2006 11:36 AM]


You are talking to the wrong guy about championships with this team. 2 Championships in say the last 57 years don't make me a optimist. I don't think Thomas or Brown was going to deliver a championship. Thomas is not type of executive or coach that fits a championship bill and let me repeat it neither is Brown. The man has one NBA championship in a career of 25+ years, and that was with a ready made team that was in the Eastern Conference Finals. Its funny how you use championship now, when I asked in another thread about was Brown going to lead this organization to a championship you said it wasn't about that.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
djsunyc
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5/15/2006  11:55 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Pharzeone:

LOL, so if Brown turned the team next year it will be an improvement, seeing the "bigger picture" as DJ stated. But if the organization turns around under Thomas it is more of the same. Yeah that sounds about right, you guys aren't closed minded at all. Might as put up Islesfan poll what's more important Isiah's success or the Knicks success.

do you think this team is built like a championship team? if so, then this is moot.

i don't think it is. and lb is asking for changes that will bring more defensive minded role players and a REAL point guard.

if we remove lb, and bring in isiah...all we will get is more sizzle and less steak.

what would we be building to? would isiah change his current philosophy of the starphuck? i don't think so. that's why it's different.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-15-2006 11:36 AM]


You are talking to the wrong guy about championships with this team. 2 Championships in say the last 57 years don't make me a optimist. I don't think Thomas or Brown was going to deliver a championship. Thomas is not type of executive or coach that fits a championship bill and let me repeat it neither is Brown. The man has one NBA championship in a career of 25+ years, and that was with a ready made team that was in the Eastern Conference Finals. Its funny how you use championship now, when I asked in another thread about was Brown going to lead this organization to a championship you said it wasn't about that.

to think this team would be built in a championship contender within 3 years would be foolish. but being built in that mold is not. what do all championship teams have in common? they have hard working players. they play defense. and they share the ball. they have smart players. that's what he's trying to establish here...but he said "i can't coach effort". only the lucky can win the ring, but you can still build that way and maybe you catch some breaks and it can happen. but with the way picks are traded and cap room is disregarded, those type of options are non-existant.
Bippity10
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5/15/2006  12:56 PM
Brown was here to change a philosophy of a dead organization. Win totals and titles is not something we need to talk about at this point. What we need is a proven winner who will help to change the philosophy . We had one and were uncomfortable with the way he did things. So instead of staying the course and see if he can in fact change the culture we instead go back to what we were doing before. Something that brought us nothing but shame, ridicule and losing. At some point we will have to admit that it's time to come up with an organizational philosophy and then build towards it giving our coach 100% support.

Someday it will happen. In the meantime, who is the next individual we can blame for everything so that we can feel better about the mess?
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Bippity10
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5/15/2006  12:57 PM
Do fans realize that we are not building we are instead looking for the next person to axe. Instead of building our organization is built around tearing down. How do you expect to win this way?
I just hope that people will like me
WOODMANnYk
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5/15/2006  1:10 PM
Posted by TMS:

the point isn't what the record would be next year... the big picture is what the future going forward would be like... would u rather have a team that's built to make the playoffs only, or a team built to win a championship? the philosophy has to change before we can build for the latter... LB's vision preached that type of philosophy.


It's sad to witness this but like i had said before.. It goes back to Mr.Cablevision, Buffoon Dolan who only excepts mediocrity..

The dude knows nothing about making a sports franchise into a winner..

We're screwed big time cause the only person who saw it truthfully is being forced out with a buyout.. Now Isiah is in full control of this team and dolan continues to show faith in him..

Knicks fans are doom for life... Can anyone come out and show interest in buying this Knicks team.. IF not, we're screwed for centuries..
The Future. GO KNICKS!
Thomas Oozing Into the Hot Seat

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