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Dave Checketts..........
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spencerdoobie
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10/1/2002  8:27 PM
Anyone know what he is up to? I think that NBA teams should view him as a potential free agent, he is hands down one of the best in the biz. He is a great business man and has shown he is capable of spotting talent (Malone, Stockton in Utah Trading for LJ, Camby, Spree, Signing Houston in NY) Also a great leader.....it's no coincidence that the Knicks have taken such a fall since he left

and don't hate cause y'all are jealous
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martin
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10/1/2002  8:43 PM
isn't or wasn't Dave in the mix to bring a team into Charlotte?

I have to tell you, I don't know if it was Dave or Ernie who was the architect behind the trades. I think that Checketts was behind Riles being in NY, which did kick off a long highlight of playoff appearances.
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nwny
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10/7/2002  4:10 PM
The only bad move Checketts ever made was in the war between Ernie and Van Gudy, he choose Van Gundy, who later stabbed us in the back.
martin
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10/7/2002  4:19 PM
Posted by nwny:

The only bad move Checketts ever made was in the war between Ernie and Van Gudy, he choose Van Gundy, who later stabbed us in the back.

I kind of agree with this, and in hind-sight would have preferred to keep Ernie over VG in the long run.
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Caseloads
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10/7/2002  8:39 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by nwny:

The only bad move Checketts ever made was in the war between Ernie and Van Gudy, he choose Van Gundy, who later stabbed us in the back.

I kind of agree with this, and in hind-sight would have preferred to keep Ernie over VG in the long run.
yeah, but VG did take the team to the finals, but Ernie was a much better GM. Ernie had vision, but everything went downhill starting with that freddy weis nonsense - but look - the bucks aren't in much better shape than us roster wise, and ernie is their GM.
martin
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10/7/2002  8:52 PM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by martin:
Posted by nwny:

The only bad move Checketts ever made was in the war between Ernie and Van Gudy, he choose Van Gundy, who later stabbed us in the back.

I kind of agree with this, and in hind-sight would have preferred to keep Ernie over VG in the long run.
yeah, but VG did take the team to the finals

VG did take the team to the finals... the team that Ernie put together. And man did it take him a long time to play the players who ended up making the big plays. (whoa, that was a bit of gripe about nothing)

I don't know exactly what kind of chips Ernie has in Milwalkee nor what kind of short/long leash he is on with the Senator, but he is a good GM.
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spencerdoobie
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10/12/2002  8:24 PM
Question:

what the hell has grunfield done to prove he is a good gm? everything he did in ny was with checketts approval, and he has not done a thing in milw.

keeping vg was a GREAT move
nwny
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10/13/2002  12:07 AM
Posted by spencerdoobie:

Question:

what the hell has grunfield done to prove he is a good gm? everything he did in ny was with checketts approval, and he has not done a thing in milw.

keeping vg was a GREAT move
You’ve obviously never read anything Checketts said about Ernie. He has said on numerous occasions that he was very hands-off with Ernie as long as they were winning. It’s his management style. It was Ernie moves that built the teams that were constantly in the playoffs and went to the finals. When Van Gundy and Ernie bumped heads, he went with Van Gundy because Phil Jackson turned down the coaching job. He felt that Ernie had put a solid team in place that would be stable for the short term. The immediate concern was keeping Van Gundy because he is a quality coach. The team that Ernie built was solid enough to give him time to find a good GM. (GM change jobs less frequently than coaches). He never got that chance because the Dolans fired him. Van Gundy what he wanted he got Ernie fired and he still quit the team. That sucks. In hindsight keeping Van Gundy was a bad move. Yeah keeping Van Gundy was greaaatttt. He’s completely responsible for the 30-52 season. Period. When has pro coach ever quit a team with a winning record mid-season?
And as for your question about what has he done in Milwaukee? Well he traded a supposedly untradable player (Robinson), which by the way gets, as player with more skill on the floor (Thomas), and gets them an expiring contract (Kukoc). And he kept a player people said they would lose in free agency (Thomas). Spencerdoobie my friend…..I think you should know that on this site, we know a little bit about hoops. You should too if you’re going to post here. Welcome to the site my friend.


[Edited by - nwny on 10/13/2002 00:10:12]
spencerdoobie
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10/13/2002  9:06 PM
ya, that big dog trade was a great move..........solid take, seriously. you must know a lot about hoops. let's go over some of the big moves ernie has made in in milw.

Lindsey Hunter (Solid)
Greg Foster (Nice move)
Joel Prysbilla (great pick ernie)
Anthony Mason (that worked out, huh?)

do i need to go on? or maybe you could enlighten me with your vast basketball knowledge

oh, and that comemnt that checketts was a "hands off" type of guy? bull ****, ask anyone who has worked for him

the nucleus of the bucks was in place when ernie got there and he has done nothing ot improve it. how does a team with that talent not make the playoffs in the east? since you know so much about hoops tough guy, lets hear your take on that.

ernie was nothing without checketts and keeping van gundy was the right move. do i need to refresh your memeory of how the team and the city rallied around vg and the knicks advanced to the finals after the decesion was made? do you think the team would have responded the same way if vg was fired and ernie stayed? i think not

but you are the expert, right nwny?

long live joel prysbilla!!!!
BigSm00th
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10/14/2002  1:20 AM
I loved JVG as a coach. He turned a team of overpaid players with little talent into a Eastern Conference contender, taught guys how to play defense, and had a ton of heart and desire. Unfortuanately, the heart and desire ran out and he quit (who wouldn't, Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley making all that money, I would've quit before the season.)
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WOODMANnYk
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10/14/2002  11:30 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

I loved JVG as a coach. He turned a team of overpaid players with little talent into a Eastern Conference contender, taught guys how to play defense, and had a ton of heart and desire. Unfortuanately, the heart and desire ran out and he quit (who wouldn't, Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley making all that money, I would've quit before the season.)
Yeah thats nice, what about the offense, where was it??? During VanGumby reign, knicks were second to last on offense every damn yr. WHen you had players like LJ,Spree,H20,Camby and ewing: That should've been a powerhouse lineup on offense. If it were Football, Vangumby would be one hell of a defensive coordinator..
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BigSm00th
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10/14/2002  11:41 AM
Jeez, why are you so bitter? Yeah, the offense wasn't there, but they were the best defensive team in the league. They made the Finals, they made the Eastern Conference Finals, and they were always competitve, regardless of who they played. I'm not sure what your problem is, but JVG was one of the best coaches the Knicks have ever had, and you blame him for no offense.

IN CASE YOU FORGOT, Ewing's wrist was shot, so he couldn't hit the fadeaway anymore, he had no point guard to run the show, and LJ's back was terrible. These players were past their primes. That is why there was no offense. Their best chance to win was by playing D and sticking in games, they did that, and you complain about offense.

Chaney's OFFENSIVE system is really working to a T. How many games under .500 was he, with the same squad that JVG had at 10-9? Yeah, exactly.
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spencerdoobie
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10/14/2002  1:00 PM
i got your back bigsm00th, vg was the man and the knicks would be so lucky to have him now.

checketts made the RIGHT move by keeping vg and letting grunfield go
knixphan
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10/14/2002  1:09 PM
At the time, keeping the general (JVG) was the best move for the troops - That was their focal point going into games, the guy who willed them to win. Now that the general has bolted, we lament the decision, but hindsight is always 20/20.
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nwny
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10/15/2002  4:38 PM
Posted by spencerdoobie:

ya, that big dog trade was a great move..........solid take, seriously. you must know a lot about hoops. let's go over some of the big moves ernie has made in in milw.

Lindsey Hunter (Solid)
Greg Foster (Nice move)
Joel Prysbilla (great pick ernie)
Anthony Mason (that worked out, huh?)

do i need to go on? or maybe you could enlighten me with your vast basketball knowledge

oh, and that comemnt that checketts was a "hands off" type of guy? bull ****, ask anyone who has worked for him

the nucleus of the bucks was in place when ernie got there and he has done nothing ot improve it. how does a team with that talent not make the playoffs in the east? since you know so much about hoops tough guy, lets hear your take on that.

ernie was nothing without checketts and keeping van gundy was the right move. do i need to refresh your memeory of how the team and the city rallied around vg and the knicks advanced to the finals after the decesion was made? do you think the team would have responded the same way if vg was fired and ernie stayed? i think not

but you are the expert, right nwny?

long live joel prysbilla!!!!
If Checkets says he’s was hands off, who are you to doubt him? Have you actually asked these people who worked for him? Yeah that’s what thought! Learn to read. Every article I have every read, when Checketts AND Ernie are referencing their time in NY corroborates what I said. When you finish with you Senate investigation about whether he was hands off or not let me know what you find out genius. Pay attention, I said in “hindsight” keeping Van Gundy was a bad move. Do you know what hindsight means? It means that given all available information, the right decision was made. In the future when new information becomes available doubt is cast the previous decision. The new information is that he QUIT on us! I acknowledging that when Phil Jackson took the Laker job it was the right thing to do only because Ernie had already built a championship caliber. Checketts needed a good coach more than he needed a good GM at that time. Got it? Good.
As for the bucks; Big Dog was a cancer on that team and this year the pieces that Ernie put together will come together. Those guys you mentioned are role players. Without Ray Allen, who was injured, those guys were asked to play above there skill level. That leads bad, bad seasons. For proof, look at the Knicks. Houston is an excellent SG, but he is essentially a role player that we have asked to be our franchise players. That will never work. Back to the bucks. Any move that gets a player with Tim Thomas potential on the floor, and gets rid of a disgruntled player is a good move. Even if you have to take Tony Kukoc
BTW the bucks didn’t have a nucleus when he got there. They had 3 players need the ball to play well. The team needed balance sometimes that takes time to build.
No, let me refresh your memory. Ernie was fired AFTER the team went to the finals. Try your revisionist history on someone else.
spencerdoobie
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10/16/2002  1:33 PM
actually, genius, he was fired BEFORE the playoffs. remember when the knicks were at .500 and it wasn't clear they were going to make the playoffs? checketts then fired ernie and the knicks went on that memorable run. they won 6 games in a row and secured the 8 seed. the rest is history and ernie was fired BEFORE........but nice try

get your facts straight.............tough guy

also, tim thomas is a great player, i agree that the bucks needed to free up some time for him...........but he was already there when grunfield was hired! ........you said that only three players were in place when ernie arrived, well who were those three players? ray allen, big dog and cassell. add thomas to that mix and yes, I believe that IS the nucleus of the bucks. ernie has brought in dudes like mason, prysbilla, greg foster, lindsey hunter, scott wiliams, darvin ham, jason caffey.........do i need to go on? if the bucs are good this year it will be because of players like allen, thomas and cassell. NOT the stiffs ernie has brought in...........with the exception of michael redd, he is a bad ass, i give ernie credit on that one.

by the way, does your computer have spell check? you should look into it.......



[Edited by - spencerdoobie on 10/16/2002 13:45:03]
nwny
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10/17/2002  7:31 AM
Posted by spencerdoobie:

actually, genius, he was fired BEFORE the playoffs. remember when the knicks were at .500 and it wasn't clear they were going to make the playoffs? checketts then fired ernie and the knicks went on that memorable run. they won 6 games in a row and secured the 8 seed. the rest is history and ernie was fired BEFORE........but nice try

get your facts straight.............tough guy

also, tim thomas is a great player, i agree that the bucks needed to free up some time for him...........but he was already there when grunfield was hired! ........you said that only three players were in place when ernie arrived, well who were those three players? ray allen, big dog and cassell. add thomas to that mix and yes, I believe that IS the nucleus of the bucks. ernie has brought in dudes like mason, prysbilla, greg foster, lindsey hunter, scott wiliams, darvin ham, jason caffey.........do i need to go on? if the bucs are good this year it will be because of players like allen, thomas and cassell. NOT the stiffs ernie has brought in...........with the exception of michael redd, he is a bad ass, i give ernie credit on that one.

by the way, does your computer have spell check? you should look into it.......



[Edited by - spencerdoobie on 10/16/2002 13:45:03]
Ha, Ha, spell check? It figures, every time some idiot can’t prove his point he says uhh, you spelled ‘cat’ wrong. Give me a break, loser. The forums are litered with bad spelling nobody checks there spelling in forums. And if you were online for more than a half second, you would know this.

If the Bucks had such a great nucleus, were is all their rings? Oh, that’s right you need role players to win championships. What does Ernie do, he brings in role players. And he doesn’t give them 100M either! But there is a problem, the role players can’t contribute because there’s freaking black hole on the team. So what does he do? He gets rid of the non-passing black hole (he’s actually more like a pulsar his gravitational force is so strong), to free of time for the unselfish guy with a complete game(Thomas). So what he was there when Ernie go there! Michael Jordon was there when Phil Jackson got there. Does that make him any less of a coach? People said Bid Dog was untradable. Ernie traded him. Good job Ernie. Cassell, Robinson, and Allen have been together since ’98 and what do they have to show for it. Nada. No buddy, if the Bucks go anywhere this year it will be because Ernie traded away a cancer, and brought in decent role players. BTW is “crack smoking” one word or two?

[Edited by - nwny on 10/17/2002 07:32:20]
Andrew
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10/17/2002  8:02 AM
OK, nwny, spencerdoobie, can we get stop the personal attacks and back to talking soley about basketball. Please.
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spencerdoobie
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10/17/2002  10:09 AM
you obviously missed my point.. here is a question for ya......is it harder to bring in "role players" or build a nucleus consisiting of star players? Ernie has brought in some nice "role players", huh? seriously, every team needs a joel prysbilla, jason caffey and greg foster. Throw in a dose of scott williams darvin ham and lindsay hunter and you have the makings of a champion! what would the bucks do without those studs, nice work ernie!

by the way, nice take on comparing the championship bulls supporting cast to the current bucks supporting cast, seriously. don't make your lack of knowledge THAT obvious......i never said that bucks had a great nucleus, all i said is that it was in place when ernie was hired......again, get your facts in order

oh, and what a great move signing mason turned out to be.......that wasn't predictable at all.......ernie for executive of the year!

lastly, when did ernie get fired from the knicks?

Content Deleted....last warning. Please keep the discussion at an adult level.

[Edited by - Andrew]


[Edited by - spencerdoobie on 10/17/2002 10:35:09]
nwny
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10/17/2002  9:50 PM
Posted by spencerdoobie:

you obviously missed my point.. here is a question for ya......is it harder to bring in "role players" or build a nucleus consisiting of star players? Ernie has brought in some nice "role players", huh? seriously, every team needs a joel prysbilla, jason caffey and greg foster. Throw in a dose of scott williams darvin ham and lindsay hunter and you have the makings of a champion! what would the bucks do without those studs, nice work ernie!

by the way, nice take on comparing the championship bulls supporting cast to the current bucks supporting cast, seriously. don't make your lack of knowledge THAT obvious......i never said that bucks had a great nucleus, all i said is that it was in place when ernie was hired......again, get your facts in order

oh, and what a great move signing mason turned out to be.......that wasn't predictable at all.......ernie for executive of the year!

lastly, when did ernie get fired from the knicks?

Content Deleted....last warning. Please keep the discussion at an adult level.

[Edited by - Andrew]


[Edited by - spencerdoobie on 10/17/2002 10:35:09]
It's much harder to bring in role players. The typical NBA player was "the man" in high school, was "the man" in college and he comes to the NBA and finds out he's only mid-level at best. Most players never recover from this. It’s very difficult to find a player that will accept this role. To build a good team you must find multiple players that will accept this role. That’s very, very, difficult and that is the mark of a good GM. Sometimes it’s just a matter of timing. Look at Doug Christie. When he was a Knick all he wanted to do was chuck, and dunk. He’s matured some and he’s willing to accept his role on the Kings.
As for the players you mentioned. Yes, every team does need the guys you mentioned.
Prysbilla-playing only 15 minutes per game he’s ranked #17 in BPG. He’s actually ranked #2 in BP 48 minutes played
Caffey- he’s not doing anything different than what he did for the bulls. Same points and rebounds per game. So now you’re saying getting a guy who’s been a role player for championship team to play a role when you’re trying to build a championship team is a bad idea?
Foster- Ditto
I could go on, but I agree with Andrew that this discussion has degenerated into something other than basketball. So instead I’ll bring this full circle. Checketts has said many times that he was very hands off with Ernie. Which, BTW is one if the reasons he felt firing him was he right decision. You are my basketball guy, and I put all my marbles in your basket and my team is not winning. The buck stops with you, and you get the ax. That’s the way the game is played. So Ernie builds extremely competitive team that unfortunately has the bad luck of being at their peak the same time the Bulls were at theirs, Checketts acknowledges that it was Ernie basketball knowledge that made them competitive, so you’re either saying Ernie has lost his mind and forgotten everything he ever knew or you’re saying Checketts doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Dave Checketts..........

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