we need 3 glue players to bring things together for us... i think this team can be good next year, but not until we fill some holes, namely by shoring up our frontcourt & adding the shotblocker & tough inside defender/rebounder that we are currently missing, along w/a true SF who can score... we also need to get rid of Marbury's cancerous presence on this team... w/that in mind, here's a plan to return this franchise to playoff contention in 5 easy moves:

#1: sign Reggie Evans w/the MLE... we haven't had a tough inside defender since KT during the JVG days... that's what this team is lacking, & Evans has the athleticism that Isiah loves & the defensive mentality that LB covets... a true dirty work player.

#2: trade w/POR - Jalen Rose for Theo Ratliff & Juan Dixon... Ratliff will make a smooth transition into LB's defensive scheme... you can either keep Dixon or use him as a piece in a subsequent deal to unload Mo T

#3: sign & trade for Al Harrington - Steve Francis & the 2 late 1st rounders for Al Harrington... Isiah loves this kid, & so will LB... he wants to play for the Knicks, & he's a young kid who's progressively gotten better every year he's been in the NBA... he's on the cusp of being an Allstar calibre player... would create alot of favorable matchups for us next season... ATL could make good use of Francis to give them some stability at the PG position, & they can do alot of things w/the 2 late 1st rounders along w/their #4 pick

#4: buy out Marbury trade plan w/MIN: Jerome James for Marko Jaric & the #7 pick - Marbury signs on w/MIN... this keeps KG happy in MIN, lets Marbury go to a team where he can play like Starbury if he wants to, gets rid of the Big Turd, Isiah gets a lottery pick to use in this year's draft, & LB can finally coach this team w/no more distractions from the malcontents posse.

#5: re-sign Jackie Butler w/the LLE... sorry Q Woods, no room for you unless you're willing to re-sign for a veteran's minimum

C - Curry / Ratliff / Butler
PF - Evans / Frye / Malik
SF - Harrington / Lee
SG - Q Rich / Ronnie Brewer (#7 pick - http://nbadraft.net/profiles/ronniebrewer.asp)
PG - Crawford / Nate
IR - Jaric / Mo T / Dixon

[Edited by - TMS on 04-21-2006 11:05 AM]

Decent trades. But trade #3 are you a Knick fan or a Hawk fan. You do realize that the Hawks aren't re-signing him, Woodson is taking heat for not playing Marvin Williams more instead of a guy that the Hawks know they really don't want around. And you want to give them 2 1st round picks, when the Lakers wanted to give Orlando a pick to acquire him less than 2 months ago.
I am right there with you on Brewer. To me he has to be one of the guys you want to target if you are trying to move up. I would love to take Evans, want no part of Ratliff, could use Rose alot better than that. As far as Marbury buy-out plan, you have to show me how you could get around the CBA with that one. Once a player is brought-out, he becomes a restricted FA, the only team he can't sign with his the team that brought him out. So I doubt that. I don't understand the fascination of Q-Rich to some of you. I guess if the most horrible employee screams out that I am horrible employee and the boss is right about us, he gets some brownie points. I rather keep Rose until the all-star break, then have Q Rich show up to camp. I think the Knicks will revisit the Lakers' interest in Franchise.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Decent trades. But trade #3 are you a Knick fan or a Hawk fan. You do realize that the Hawks aren't re-signing him, Woodson is taking heat for not playing Marvin Williams more instead of a guy that the Hawks know they really don't want around. And you want to give them 2 1st round picks, when the Lakers wanted to give Orlando a pick to acquire him less than 2 months ago.
I am right there with you on Brewer. To me he has to be one of the guys you want to target if you are trying to move up. I would love to take Evans, want no part of Ratliff, could use Rose alot better than that. As far as Marbury buy-out plan, you have to show me how you could get around the CBA with that one. Once a player is brought-out, he becomes a restricted FA, the only team he can't sign with his the team that brought him out. So I doubt that. I don't understand the fascination of Q-Rich to some of you. I guess if the most horrible employee screams out that I am horrible employee and the boss is right about us, he gets some brownie points. I rather keep Rose until the all-star break, then have Q Rich show up to camp. I think the Knicks will revisit the Lakers' interest in Franchise.

as far as the ATL trade goes, 2 late 1st rounders isn't alot to give up for a 26 yr. old SF who puts up 18 & 8 & unloading a disgruntled player making max dollars off the cap... i don't see how that deal is so 1 sided against the Knicks... if anything, i would say ATL is the team giving up alot more in this deal.

as for Jalen Rose, let me know what you think would be a better use of his expiring contract... i don't see much else out there that can help the Knicks right now... we certainly need a shotblocking presence... i think Ratliff would fit the bill nicely... i'm not interested in trading Jalen Rose to get a longterm max contract player to add to this team's already horrible cap situation (unless you can somehow get Kenyon Martin, who i would take the risk on cuz i just love his style of play)... at least Ratliff only has 1 more year left on his deal after next season, so it's manageable.

the Marbury buyout plan can work imo... what other team will want to bring him in that he'll want to play for? his best shot at recapturing his "Starbury" status is playing alongside KG again, & he knows it... there's no rule in the CBA that says you can't make a trade of JJ for Jaric & the #7 pick... & there's under the table type deals that go down all the time... case in point, Carlos Boozer was "supposed" to re-sign w/CLE after they refused his option, but instead he went & signed w/UTA... nothing in the CBA could have been used to prevent CLE from making that move though... & i don't see any teams out there that will bid up Marbury's price at this point & risk ruining any semblence of team chemistry that they might have by bringing him on... KG & Marbury at least have an understanding of each other, & they both want to be reunited... the MIN fans would embrace the return of Marbury too, imho.

Q Rich showed me that he's willing to play LB's style of basketball... considering all the crap he'd been through this season, showing some heart on the floor at least gives me hope he can find his shot again next year.

about the Lakers, if you could get Odom in a deal for Francis, i'd be all for that as well, but i don't think it's going to happen.

as for Jackie Butler, i agree, alot of teams will be interested in him, but i don't see many that will offer him the MLE.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-21-2006 11:45 AM]

Posted by TMS:

we need 3 glue players to bring things together for us... i think this team can be good next year, but not until we fill some holes, namely by shoring up our frontcourt & adding the shotblocker & tough inside defender/rebounder that we are currently missing, along w/a true SF who can score... we also need to get rid of Marbury's cancerous presence on this team... w/that in mind, here's a plan to return this franchise to playoff contention in 5 easy moves:

#1: sign Reggie Evans w/the MLE... we haven't had a tough inside defender since KT during the JVG days... that's what this team is lacking, & Evans has the athleticism that Isiah loves & the defensive mentality that LB covets... a true dirty work player.

#2: trade w/POR - Jalen Rose for Theo Ratliff & Juan Dixon... Ratliff will make a smooth transition into LB's defensive scheme... you can either keep Dixon or use him as a piece in a subsequent deal to unload Mo T

#3: sign & trade for Al Harrington - Steve Francis & the 2 late 1st rounders for Al Harrington... Isiah loves this kid, & so will LB... he wants to play for the Knicks, & he's a young kid who's progressively gotten better every year he's been in the NBA... he's on the cusp of being an Allstar calibre player... would create alot of favorable matchups for us next season... ATL could make good use of Francis to give them some stability at the PG position, & they can do alot of things w/the 2 late 1st rounders along w/their #4 pick

#4: buy out Marbury trade plan w/MIN: Jerome James for Marko Jaric & the #7 pick - Marbury signs on w/MIN... this keeps KG happy in MIN, lets Marbury go to a team where he can play like Starbury if he wants to, gets rid of the Big Turd, Isiah gets a lottery pick to use in this year's draft, & LB can finally coach this team w/no more distractions from the malcontents posse.

#5: re-sign Jackie Butler w/the LLE... sorry Q Woods, no room for you unless you're willing to re-sign for a veteran's minimum

C - Curry / Ratliff / Butler
PF - Evans / Frye / Malik
SF - Harrington / Lee
SG - Q Rich / Ronnie Brewer (#7 pick - http://nbadraft.net/profiles/ronniebrewer.asp)
PG - Crawford / Nate
IR - Jaric / Mo T / Dixon

[Edited by - TMS on 04-21-2006 11:05 AM]

Reggie Evans fills a need well and for a decent price.

Jalen Rose is doable from Portland's perspective and a nightmare from the Knick's perspective. Thats 2 extra years on Ratliff's deal at 12 mil - totaling 24 million saved. I've made it clear and it should be obvious now even to Isiah - we have to capitalize on our monopoly of expiring contracts - sell high or don't sell at all. It won't kill us to see the rest of the league suffer a little bit. Frankly, if no better deal is available, lets not butcher our team any further. The garbage you want back makes this deal even worse - Ratliff is running on 34 and his numbers this season were 4.9 ppg, 5.1 rpg and 1.6 bps in 24 mpg. That's significantly worse than Pryzbilla - just to give you a sense. Being realistic on deals doesn't mean you screw the Knicks into oblivion.

Again, Steve Francis and 2 first rounder's is masochistically overpaying for Harrington. How long is Harrington signed for? Do you wan't him at sf? That leaves us with lackluster perimeter shooting at positions 1-3 and Harrington doesn't guard the perimeter well.

Marbury buy-out has zero/negative chance of happening come hell or high water. There is of course no sane reason we should have to pay his contract especially if we're giving up a talent of that caliber. If you wan't to deal straight-up, its reasonable only if we get a minimum of 2 solid young prospects. If we can't deal, play him. Alternatively, just send him to where Penny hides out during the season.



[Edited by - codeunknown on 04-21-2006 1:08 PM]

yeah, that is pretty crazy.

I'd rather have a disgruntled marbury than no marbury...look at a far less talented shandon.

Posted by MattSuspect:

It saddens me to see people referencing the "Buy Out Marbury Plan", like it actually has a 1% chance of happening.

Posted by TMS:

Thats 2 extra years on Ratliff's deal at 12 mil - totaling 24 million saved.

not so... Theo has 1 more year left on his deal after next season... that's an extra $6 million in salary the Knicks are taking on for 2007... +another $3 million in Juan Dixon's contract for 2007... so in total it's an extra $9 million & 1 year of cap we are taking on... for that we get rid of a malcontent player that we no longer need & get back the shotblocker that we desperately need... i don't think it's that bad a trade for either team to make... everyone benefits.

Again, Steve Francis and 2 first rounder's is masochistically overpaying for Harrington. How long is Harrington signed for? Do you wan't him at sf? That leaves us with lackluster perimeter shooting at positions 1-3 and Harrington doesn't guard the perimeter well.

that's about as biased an opinion of Al Harrington i've ever heard... just because you don't like the guy doesn't justify what you're saying about him... he's not signed, he's a FA next year... this would be a sign & trade deal... what the hell is Steve Francis going to do for us next year? he's signed at max dollars for the next 3 years... don't tell me Al Harrington wouldn't be a much more valuable asset to the Knicks than he would... as for those 2 late 1st rounders, we don't have the roster spots to accomodate them anyway... give me the proven NBA talent everytime over late rd. picks... we have enough young guys that need development w/o having to worry about 2 more next season.

the Marbury buyout thing needs to happen, for the Knicks' sake & for his own... he needs to be on a different team next year, & there's no way i want him influencing our young guys next year w/his dour presence.

You are correct that Ratliff has 1 year left. Your calculations are wrong, however. Your math is jumbled between the first and second year. Ultimately, Portland pays an extra 2.6 million in 06/07 but saves 14.6 million in 07/08. Thats a total saving of 12 million and 1 year of cap. But, it remains a mystery why we have to pay get Ratliff and Dixon regardless. Portland can't afford much right now - let them keep Ratliff and suffer. If we wan't a shotblocker, get Pryzbilla.

Al Harrington's defense in the post is strong, he's not good on the perimeter. Since it's not easy to get reliable defensive data, I'll focus on shooting. Harrignton is a career 29% from 3 and 34% last season. Thats objective, I believe. We need better than that.

Regarding Marbury, there's not much more to say really. I would never donate an asset like that and proceed to pay his salary. Its suicide in terms of asset reinvestment. If you don't want him influencing the children, send him to Penny's house.

NAAAA. Not harrington!! Reason he's playing his *** off is the contract year.. For a guy 6'9, he should be averaging over8 rebounds a game.

Im not sold on that dude at all. He's more about himself than the team.. We have enough of that here already...

Ratliffe and Dixon from Portland sounds decent but we would have to unload some guards besides francis and marbury.

Mo Taylor??? Oh god, That guy is a bum!!! They need to get rid of him immediately...

[Edited by - WOODMANNyK on 04-21-2006 2:33 PM]

IMO, Marbury ain't going anywhere; especially for Marko Jaric & more bloated payroll players.

Personally, I think he needs to be dealt...MAYBE we'll actually get better. But, I doubt that we just give him away.. no matter how low his value appears to be right now.

As for the trades.. I like the Reggie Evans move... I think Danny Fortson would make some sense here as well.

SF- I keep seeing Jared Jeffies name pop up lately.. I'd cosign that deal if presented.





[Edited by - JayNYC on 04-21-2006 3:38 PM]

To me draft picks are "hit and miss"; I'd like to think that if a college player is mentioned as a lottery pick based on potential alone, it would "generally" make the most sense.

Reality is that none of those players are locks to be all-star caliber.. and likely won't be reliable enough to be key contributers for a Larry Brown coached team right away.

We have more than enough youngsters.. not down playing your suggestion for a Marbury/ Pick swap but realistically; if a trade were to happen involving Steph.. we'd have to net back some veteran, system guys that LB would want. (OR) Moreover, he'd have to be borderline allstar caliber.. IMO





[Edited by - JayNYC on 04-21-2006 4:12 PM]

Posted by TMS:



forget Pryzbilla... i'd MUCH rather use the MLE on Reggie Evans instead... the whole point in making the POR trade was to address our shotblocking needs AFTER we made the move to sign Reggie Evans... you're right about the extra $3 mil i forgot to calculate in... so we corrected each other, we're even.

Hehe, I corrected you on the Ratner-NJ/Portland analogy as well - so I guess that puts me a nose ahead.

On topic, however, I'd take Pryzbilla over Evans. Evans equals hustle/rebounding a la Jerome Williams and his efficacy is only marginally better. Pryzbilla will have more of an impact.

as for giving Marbury away for "nothing", when did a #7 overall pick suddenly become considered insignificant? to get rid of Jerome James, Marbury AND get back a #7 overall pick, i'd do that deal in a heartbeat...

Skip that heartbeat. Dumping Crawford for nothing was suggested 2 months ago before he started playing well - that would have been diasterous just as dumping Marbury will be disasterous. These players are investments and the empirical results this year definitely didn't match the a priori talent. Wait it out and sell Marbury at his peak value next year - the influence on peripheral players will be negligible. Certainly the risk is worth it for a portion of next season which stands to boost his value.

In terms of the logistics of the Minnesota deal, a #7 pick and another prospect (McCants) without paying Marbury's salary is beginning to approach a deal worth settling at. Your proposed deal collects the cesspool that is Marko Jaric. There's nothing to be proud off there. He's an average talent and his deal runs through 11. While the money is more justifiable than Jerome James it remains part of the problem as we would still be in need of a starting point guard. Solution - sign Marcus Banks (who starts over Jaric as a result of his far superior defense) with the MLE.

Posted by TMS:

for the record, i was never in favor of dumping Crawford... & the big difference there is Crawford's inherent coachability, humility & most importantly his willingness to learn... Marbury already thinks he has all the answers & he has a spoiled primadonna's mentality... he's been that way ever since he came into the NBA... there's no reason for anyone to ever think that he'll change... it's just going to be more of the same next season if he sticks around - he'll have a stretch of a few good games, & then he'll return to being the same old clown he's always been... i've been through several disappointments w/Marbury already & there's no way i'm going to hope he'll ever be anything more than what he is right now, & that's a bad influence on all our young kids... anyway, i don't expect you to agree w/me on this since you're the same guy who thinks we can convince POR to give up their #1 overall pick to get cap relief.

btw, if u want to sign Marcus Banks to the MLE, how do you propose to get that shotblocker?

Fair enough, we'll have to disagree for now. I do think that Portland's #1 overall pick may be for sale at the right price - again, I claimed it to be feasible, not certain or "highly likely." I will say, however, that the odds of buying out Marbury are just as miniscule. And since you're the guy who wants to donate Marbury and his salary to make Minnesota a playoff contender, we'll have to wait and see.

I'll also bet you that if Marbury returns next season, he performs significantly better than this season and we are a playoff team.