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Trade involving Portland's #1
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codeunknown
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4/18/2006  9:57 AM
The concept here is that Portland is the 2nd WORST team in terms of value. To make matters worse, they will remain a lottery team for the forseeable future and their payroll remains wrenched with huge, long-term contracts. Paul Allen has explicitly discussed both the deteriorating financial predicament of the team as well as his desire to sell off.

What could they possibly have that the Knicks could be interested in? Portland has, of course, the worst record in the NBA, and a top-3 overall pick. Of course that will involve taking back substantial salary. Why do we care? Because, if we nab either Tyrus Thomas or Lamarcus Aldridge, we are left with incredible shooting and length at the 4 and 5 for the next decade. In my opinion, that would be an excellent foundation. I'll let you decide for yourself.

Trade: Jalen Rose and Malik Rose for Theo Ratliff, Zach Randolph, Travis Outlaw, Jarrett Jack and their 2006 #1 draft pick.

Now, before everyone starts clamoring about how impossible and terrible everything is, let me present some facts and figures. This deal saves Portland 65 million over 5 years. If you look closely, it also gives Portland 17 million extra in cap space in summer '07 and 24 million in cap space in summer '08. Needless to say, Ratliff is old and done and Zach Randolph has knee problems, sharply declining production and billions of dollars coming to him.

Naturally, what we pay is a steep price. But, a price significantly more cost-effective than what we've settled for in the past, including 20 million to Toronto for pick 21 and 30 million to McDonalds for Jerome James. 65 million for the #1 overall pick, Outlaw and Jack is reasonable and sets a precedent for expiring contracts that is atleast marginally profitable. Remember, as the largest spending team in the league (by far), we essentially control a monopoly for expiring contracts - we can certainly influence the market rate over the long-term even if this particular deal can't be done.

There is also the issue of roster spots but that is trivial. Cut Udoka and buyout Taylor.

Eddy Curry
Channing Frye/(Tyrus Thomas or Lamarcus Aldridge)
Lee/Woods/Outlaw
Crawford/Nate
Marbury/Francis/Jack
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TMS
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4/18/2006  10:24 AM
LOL! do you honestly think they'd give up their likely #1 overall pick to get back the Rosie twins? AND include Zach Randolph, Travis Outlaw & Jarrett Jack in the process? why not also include Sebastian Telfair? I mean they could stand to save another $7 mil or so if they got rid of him too. Come on dude, you had to be drunk when you posted this... fess up.
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dodger78
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4/18/2006  10:29 AM
I also think it very doubtable to happen but find the idea of getting Portlands pick very interesting!!! Does the fact that Paul Allen is also very pis....ed make it feasable?!?!

Still this might also just be the feeling of being robbed of our own #1 pick speaking!!!
TMS
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4/18/2006  10:34 AM
the only way you'd ever get that #1 pick from POR is if you included Channing Frye, the 2 late 1st rounders & the expiring contracts in exchange for some of their garbage & maybe a few fill in players that you can use... otherwise it's a waste of time to even consider it.
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codeunknown
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4/18/2006  10:45 AM
Posted by TMS:

LOL! do you honestly think they'd give up their likely #1 overall pick to get back the Rosie twins? AND include Zach Randolph, Travis Outlaw & Jarrett Jack in the process? why not also include Sebastian Telfair? I mean they could stand to save another $7 mil or so if they got rid of him too. Come on dude, you had to be drunk when you posted this... fess up.


TMS, I have to say I'm quite surprised by your response. You'd have to be beaten senseless with numchucks and a baton not to see the beauty in 65 million. I repeat, 65 million for 2 players that are 1) old and busted and 2) young and busted.

Look, all I'm saying is that 65 million is significant for a Portland team whose current value is a meager 229 million. Paul Allen is a business man and he isn't an idiot. If it weren't for his billions, they'd be filing chapter 11.


Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
SlimPack
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4/18/2006  10:53 AM
you know codeunknown, me and you think alike. this was my depth chart for next season after my mid season trades, and I came up with this before I read this thread.

(PG)Marcus Banks - Jarret Jack
(SG)Jamal Crawford - Quentin Richardson
(SF)Reshard Lewis - Jumaine Jones
(PF)Zach Randolph - Eddie Griffin
(C) Samuel Dalembert - Eddy Curry

[Edited by - slimpack on 04-18-2006 10:54 AM]

[Edited by - slimpack on 04-18-2006 4:48 PM]
TMS
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4/18/2006  11:24 AM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:

LOL! do you honestly think they'd give up their likely #1 overall pick to get back the Rosie twins? AND include Zach Randolph, Travis Outlaw & Jarrett Jack in the process? why not also include Sebastian Telfair? I mean they could stand to save another $7 mil or so if they got rid of him too. Come on dude, you had to be drunk when you posted this... fess up.


TMS, I have to say I'm quite surprised by your response. You'd have to be beaten senseless with numchucks and a baton not to see the beauty in 65 million. I repeat, 65 million for 2 players that are 1) old and busted and 2) young and busted.

Look, all I'm saying is that 65 million is significant for a Portland team whose current value is a meager 229 million. Paul Allen is a business man and he isn't an idiot. If it weren't for his billions, they'd be filing chapter 11.


i can see the beauty in $65 million just fine... just so happens, though, that their owner is 1 of the richest men in the world... i think he's more concerned about building a winner than he is about pinching pennies, however... i know i would be if i were a multi-billionaire... but what do i know? i make less than 6 figures... i only think based on common sense... a #1 overall pick & trading away 3 of my best young talented players for an expiring contract of an aging vet & another vet who's a decent role player w/another 2 years left on his deal just doesn't sound very appealing to me.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
codeunknown
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4/18/2006  11:53 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:

LOL! do you honestly think they'd give up their likely #1 overall pick to get back the Rosie twins? AND include Zach Randolph, Travis Outlaw & Jarrett Jack in the process? why not also include Sebastian Telfair? I mean they could stand to save another $7 mil or so if they got rid of him too. Come on dude, you had to be drunk when you posted this... fess up.


TMS, I have to say I'm quite surprised by your response. You'd have to be beaten senseless with numchucks and a baton not to see the beauty in 65 million. I repeat, 65 million for 2 players that are 1) old and busted and 2) young and busted.

Look, all I'm saying is that 65 million is significant for a Portland team whose current value is a meager 229 million. Paul Allen is a business man and he isn't an idiot. If it weren't for his billions, they'd be filing chapter 11.



i can see the beauty in $65 million just fine... just so happens, though, that their owner is 1 of the richest men in the world... i think he's more concerned about building a winner than he is about pinching pennies, however... i know i would be if i were a multi-billionaire... but what do i know? i make less than 6 figures... i only think based on common sense... a #1 overall pick & trading away 3 of my best young talented players for an expiring contract of an aging vet & another vet who's a decent role player w/another 2 years left on his deal just doesn't sound very appealing to me.

TMS, thats not common sense, thats nonsense. 65 million is pinching pennies?
I agree with you that from a talent standpoint with respect to the lottery pick - its lopsided. But, that margin is compensated well by the lottery-sized financial donation we would be graciously bestowing on their franchise.

Here is some perspective:

Allen anticipates a 100 million loss over the next 3 years from the Blazers alone. He has already asked the city of Portland as well as the state of Oregon for "assistance financing the Blazers" and fans in Portland have been blaming him much in the same way Isiah gets trashed (and rightfully so) here in New York. And, of course, he's stated he wants to SELL. How much salary do you think it wise to retain if you're looking to dump a franchise? As little as possible. Recent history further supports this - rookie owner Bruce Ratner dumped K-Mart (a #1 overall pick, All-star and part of a 2-time finals team) for average draft picks and a relatively reasonable payroll.

The talent differential is easy to ascertain. But the opportunity of transaction is rather large in this situation.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
TMS
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4/18/2006  1:15 PM
i'll bet you anything that type of trade will never happen... call it perspective, common sense, nonsensical, whatever you wanna call it... it's not realistically ever going to happen... at least, not w/that crap you're giving back to the Blazers.
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codeunknown
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4/18/2006  1:39 PM
Posted by TMS:

i'll bet you anything that type of trade will never happen... call it perspective, common sense, nonsensical, whatever you wanna call it... it's not realistically ever going to happen... at least, not w/that crap you're giving back to the Blazers.

Fair enough. That crap is worth 65 million. Its easy to say 1/3 of a team's value is crap when you don't own it. But I'll make this bet - if you were the owner, you'd greet that crap at the airport with a hug and a kiss.

Again, I'm not writing destiny and predicting the future. Im suggesting that it can happen. That its happened before (with the Nets and Charlotte). And that the Blazers might even end up begging for that crap.

Hypothetically, how much salary do you think we'd need to take back to get the #1 pick if all we gve back was financial relief?

Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
TMS
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4/18/2006  2:24 PM
again, i don't think there's a shot in hell we would get that #1 pick unless we gave them back Channing Frye in the deal along w/our 2 late 1st rounders, & even then it's not likely... the expiring deals will not get you back anything more than Theo Ratliff & Darius Miles, as has been the talked about trade between these 2 teams all this past year... if that deal didn't go down this past season, there's no way in hell that you will be able to convince the Blazers to throw in their #1 overall pick along w/their 3 top young talents in the process... come on, get real.
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codeunknown
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4/18/2006  3:15 PM
Posted by TMS:

again, i don't think there's a shot in hell we would get that #1 pick unless we gave them back Channing Frye in the deal along w/our 2 late 1st rounders, & even then it's not likely... the expiring deals will not get you back anything more than Theo Ratliff & Darius Miles, as has been the talked about trade between these 2 teams all this past year... if that deal didn't go down this past season, there's no way in hell that you will be able to convince the Blazers to throw in their #1 overall pick along w/their 3 top young talents in the process... come on, get real.

Martell Webster, Telfair and Pryzbilla are their 3 top young talents. If you think Outlaw and Jack are their top prospects, you're off the mark. If you think they're still building around Randolph, you're still off the mark and need to get off the crack pipe. Randolph's knees are weaker than a frolicking Joan Fontaine.

It hasn't escaped my notice that you ignored the facts regarding team owner Paul Allen as well as the Kenyon Martin deal. I'm not sure how you reconcile the fact that their immediate financial plight will only get worse if they don't jettison mass payroll.
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SlimPack
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4/18/2006  4:47 PM
hmm on second thought, make that jumaine jones as our backup small forward. we should be able to get him for the majority of the MLE. screw rasual butler.



oh and uhhh.. yeah I had the same Idea about getting portlands pick. they have to give it to us for taking randolph who's numbers have been slipping ever since rasheed, and damon left. I dont think TMS knows just how obscene his contract is, or how much money portland is bleeding. of course thats no problem for use becuase dolan seems to have an unlimited supply of money.
SlimPack
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4/18/2006  4:49 PM
oh and another thing I have two questions. 1. can jamal mashburn's contract be used in a trade?. and 2. can allen houston's contract be used in a trade?
crzymdups
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4/18/2006  4:50 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

oh and another thing I have two questions. 1. can jamal mashburn's contract be used in a trade?. and 2. can allen houston's contract be used in a trade?

Houston retired, so no. If Mashburn retired too the answer is no.
¿ △ ?
TMS
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4/18/2006  5:26 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

I dont think TMS knows just how obscene his contract is

trust me, i know exactly how obscene his contract is... i study those hoopshype salary pages like it's my Bible trying to come up w/trade proposals all the time.

that still doesn't change my view on this proposal... no way in hell you're going to get the #1 overall pick w/o giving up Frye & the 2 late 1st rounders... i don't care how much money POR's going to save on that one.
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codeunknown
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4/18/2006  6:11 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

you know codeunknown, me and you think alike. this was my depth chart for next season after my mid season trades, and I came up with this before I read this thread.

(PG)Marcus Banks - Jarret Jack
(SG)Jamal Crawford - Quentin Richardson
(SF)Reshard Lewis - Jumaine Jones
(PF)Zach Randolph - Eddie Griffin
(C) Samuel Dalembert - Eddy Curry

[Edited by - slimpack on 04-18-2006 10:54 AM]

[Edited by - slimpack on 04-18-2006 4:48 PM]


We definitely have a similar conception of the pieces we should be looking to add. Especially adding a high %, volume shooter at the 3.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
TMS
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4/19/2006  12:16 AM
Posted by codeunknown:

Martell Webster, Telfair and Pryzbilla are their 3 top young talents.

i'll give u webster & telfair, but pryzbilla? dude, he's 27 years old in october & has a career avg. of 4 pts & 5 rebounds... that's travis knight-esque... you can't be serious.
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codeunknown
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4/19/2006  12:20 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:

Martell Webster, Telfair and Pryzbilla are their 3 top young talents.

i'll give u webster & telfair, but pryzbilla? dude, he's 27 years old in october & has a career avg. of 4 pts & 5 rebounds... that's travis knight-esque... you can't be serious.

As you should know, career numbers are often a poor indicator of current production.

Pryzbilla's O4/05 numbers are 6.4 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 2.14 bpg, in 24 minutes on 60% shooting

05/06 numbers are 6.1 ppg, 7rpg, 2.32bpg in 25 minutes on 55% shooting

If thats Knight-esque, maybe we should seriously consider reclaiming Travis at center. Your failure to address Portland's financial alternatives is disappointing.

Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
TMS
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4/19/2006  12:48 PM
he's nothing more than a marginal role player... i'd take Jackie Butler who at 20 years of age has already shown that he can be a solid NBA player & has upside to be even better any day of the week over Joel Pryzbilla, i'll tell u that much... you're way over-estimating the guy imho.

& i already addressed your trade proposal... i don't think it's realistic in the slightest... the talent differential is too great to be justified by the savings in dollars... think about what you're proposing... that an owner who wants to sell his franchise would trade away the #1 overall pick in the draft to get back expiring contracts... does that make any sense at all to you? just how does that increase the value of his franchise to a prospective buyer? take the lottery pick out of the equation & it changes things dramatically, but there's no way in hell you're going to get that pick w/that package of garbage you're giving them... sorry.

btw, the NJ/DEN example proves nothing, as Ratner only made that trade in order to clear up money to sign Richard Jefferson to a longterm mega dollars deal.
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