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Not 1 player has flourished under LB, Not 1!!!
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Killa4luv
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4/18/2006  8:42 AM
Think about it, Veterans and Youngsters have all had a topsy turvy season playing under coach Brown.
Their minutes have been sporadic after breakout games, their numbers are unilaterally down.
And please Spare me the Crawford 'different player' story. He is playing well, as he was he last season in Chicago when he dropped 50. He plays well in the garbage time of the season. Fool yourselves if you like, I need more than a stretch of good games in garbage time after the season is lost, before I jump on the bandwagon and claim that Crawford has flourished. Until next season please spare me.

All you scowlbury/statbury, Marbury is the antichrist guys, say what you want, Marbury is not making everyone else play poorly. He is not subbing guys in and out. And he is not constantly berating teamamtes in the media. He is not the reason there is no set rotation, and he is not the reason players drop 20 and then find themselves deactivated the next game. That honor goes to LB ALONE.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, a different coach could have easily broght this team to .500 or within a few games of it. This team is not that bad, and did not have to suck this poorly. Everyone does not want to be beaten down in the paper after every game as they try to adjust to a new coach and a new team (for many of them). Brown has a track record, but none of that absolves him from what I was forced to endure this season. I have never felt this bad about the knicks before, NEVER!!! The roster is flawed, but is not nearly as bad as LB would have you believe, and he KNEW that before he got here!!!! If we have a new coach next season (please god) and the exact same roster, things will be very different.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 04-18-2006 08:44 AM]
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McK1
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4/18/2006  8:53 AM
get rid of Steph and replace him with someone who genuinely cares about doing what the coach wants and things will be very different
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Nalod
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4/18/2006  9:06 AM
Herb will be great!

If you love Steph, you hate Larry.

If thats your opinion, thats cool.

Im not converting. I perscribe to Larrys old tyme ways and not the ways of Starbury.

Call me orthodox, call me a fool, but don't think I am happy with any of it this season.

Losing to the Bobcats even with Marbury out at home trying to avoid being the worst of all time is really pathetic.

I think the Rookies got more run and developed pretty nicely this year under Brown. Frye had a much better season than many thought otherwise at seasons start.

Eddy played more games than I thought he would. ANd he lived to tell about it.

Keeping Jerome on the bench took balls.

Playing Butler and his developement was a nice thing. Too bad he gets traded.

Nobody tried to choke Larry.

Isiah was not arrested.

Overall, it could have been worse. Not much.

I hope Larry returns becasue Herb coaching does not do it for me.

fishmike
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4/18/2006  9:16 AM
I've said it once and I'll say it again, a different coach could have easily broght this team to .500 or within a few games of it.
thats actually the problem, not the solution. Who cares about a $125mm roster that only plays hard when the balls in their hands having a .500 season? Statbury had a career year last season but Lenny still (and publicly) pleaded for them to play better defense and the same team that went 16-13 went 2-13 a month later.

Do you want players to "thrive" or learn to play winning basketball? Marbury, Francis, Mo Taylor, Jerome James... these guys have never played winning ball. Whatever style they had thrived under in the past didnt produce wins. Every place Larry has been he's produced wins. Now nobody is saying Larry did a good job this year. He was another bad move by Isiah all things considered but when you stop and think about what he asks of the players its kinda funny they all have a problem with it.

[Edited by - fishmike on 04-18-2006 09:17 AM]
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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4/18/2006  9:23 AM
Posted by fishmike:
I've said it once and I'll say it again, a different coach could have easily broght this team to .500 or within a few games of it.
thats actually the problem, not the solution. Who cares about a $125mm roster that only plays hard when the balls in their hands having a .500 season? Statbury had a career year last season but Lenny still (and publicly) pleaded for them to play better defense and the same team that went 16-13 went 2-13 a month later.

Do you want players to "thrive" or learn to play winning basketball? Marbury, Francis, Mo Taylor, Jerome James... these guys have never played winning ball. Whatever style they had thrived under in the past didnt produce wins. Every place Larry has been he's produced wins. Now nobody is saying Larry did a good job this year. He was another bad move by Isiah all things considered but when you stop and think about what he asks of the players its kinda funny they all have a problem with it.

[Edited by - fishmike on 04-18-2006 09:17 AM]

Take a hugely talented team and a top 5 coach and this is what you get.

The wrong coach for the wrong players constructed by the wrong GM. HOw does this happen? No accountability for a god damm thing.

djsunyc
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4/18/2006  9:45 AM
whether it's lb, or riley, or phil, or nate, or superfly jimmy snuka, this season HAD to happen as we now know who the guys we can start building a team with. not building around, but a step 1 in truly rebuilding this franchise. alot of people are upset with this season...wins/losses, roster shuffles, mutinybury, etc. hey, i sat in section 404 two to three times a week watching this LIVE. but i'm not upset. i think this season is the best thing to happen to this franchise b/c things that needed to be exposed were. i don't understand people asking for lb's dismissal just b/c of a step backwards this season. in fact, if you go by his M.O. - the first season is always crappy, it's not until season 2 or 3 do we really see growth. so what was the difference here? nothing if you ask me. names are sexier but that's all...just the names. their games have a lot left to be desired, especially on the defensive end. lb is playing 3 rookies, 3 guys in the league for 2 years, constant injuries, and not to mention our vets suck...41 wins with those ingredients don't happen.

it's ok b/c hey, guess what, the season is done. so we all survived it. we should be happy b/c now, we can endure anything as a fan base. so let's see what happens starting thursday. i don't need any explanations from the team as to what happened this year. people will spin everything any way they want. all we can judge things by are actions, so let's see the course of action they take this summer. just like the 6 game win streak was a blip on the radar, so is this season. it's just a blip in the big picture.
TMS
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4/18/2006  10:21 AM
Jamal Crawford has matured alot under LB imo... some of the young kids have developed nicely as well, including Channing, Lee, Nate, Jackie & Q Woods... the players that have regressed are the spoiled overpaid primadonna veterans like Starbitch & Franchise killer.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Killa4luv
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4/18/2006  10:25 AM
Its unfortunate that there is a George Bush mindset with many of you. either you are with us, or you are with the enemy. This is not a case of Steph vs. LB. There are many people involved in this and it doesn't boil down to Steph or LB. I just don't see what you guys see. I have no idea how you can say Steph didn't try to adapt his game to LB's liking. I have no idea how you can say the constant carousel that was our lineup, didn't play a huge part in our poor play. I do hold the players accountable for their play, and I do hold Steph accountable, for not being a leader. He is not a leader, I have long ago figured that out. But I also hold LB accountable for complaining about getting what he knew he was getting and for being an exteremely negative and divisive force through the media all season long. With this same cast of players and LB, things STILL could have been different.

I think if LB just kept his mouth shut, scolded them in practice but supported them publicly, things would have been waaaaay different for everybody, and we would have won more and learned what it means to be a team. He did not lead by example. You do not create a team atmosphere by initiating a public feud with players on your team. That is not my idea of a team player, but I guess no one here agrees with that, and because LB has won, he is above blame or criticism.
Allanfan20
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4/18/2006  10:35 AM
George Bush? lol I think there are a whole number of players on the team that probably wouldn't have flourished the way they have under Brown, and that includes Iverson, Billups, and NOW, I think Robinson would have been the same dumbars player along with Crawford, but they both seem to be taking off. Woods, I'm on the fence with, but all the rooks seem to be doing nicely under him too.

The Knicks need to cleanse themselves, not put more crap in the system by firing more coaches. It hasn't worked one time yet. Not once.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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4/18/2006  10:36 AM
Steph hasn't played good defense for any appreciable stretch of games all season long & has been bitching & moaning about his role since Opening day... how can you say he gave an earnest effort to mold his game to LB's liking? just because he said he did in the papers last week doesn't make it so... all it takes is watching the game to see that he hasn't been the PG that LB wanted him to be this year.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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4/18/2006  10:39 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Its unfortunate that there is a George Bush mindset with many of you. either you are with us, or you are with the enemy. This is not a case of Steph vs. LB. There are many people involved in this and it doesn't boil down to Steph or LB. I just don't see what you guys see. I have no idea how you can say Steph didn't try to adapt his game to LB's liking. I have no idea how you can say the constant carousel that was our lineup, didn't play a huge part in our poor play. I do hold the players accountable for their play, and I do hold Steph accountable, for not being a leader. He is not a leader, I have long ago figured that out. But I also hold LB accountable for complaining about getting what he knew he was getting and for being an exteremely negative and divisive force through the media all season long. With this same cast of players and LB, things STILL could have been different.

I think if LB just kept his mouth shut, scolded them in practice but supported them publicly, things would have been waaaaay different for everybody, and we would have won more and learned what it means to be a team. He did not lead by example. You do not create a team atmosphere by initiating a public feud with players on your team. That is not my idea of a team player, but I guess no one here agrees with that, and because LB has won, he is above blame or criticism.

we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors so none of us really know what the truth is.

but i believe in a heirarchy of power. isiah is #1, then lb, then the players. lb shouldn't criticize isiah and the players shouldn't criticize lb. lb talks alot...but he was candid with all his answers. there's a reason he says stuff about certain players. guys that have had awful years, like quentin and malik were never mentioned by lb in a negative light whatsoever. there's a reason for that. i don't know what it is, but there is. channing frye was never criticized. nate, only after he showboated. lb saying he's not a point guard is the truth, he's not. and i don't think lb says anything to the press that he hasn't said to the players.

there is NO reason for steph to say "i want to play sg." or "we should run more." he should not be saying those things. and he's been saying stuff from the beginning of the season, like "those were the hardest 10 assists of my life" and of course, the first thing he said "i don't care about my #'s if we win, but if we don't, i won't be happy." how can that not be construed as selfish? just b/c steph tried making the extra pass on the court still doesn't mean he bought in as evidenced by his comments. he took lb's coaching personal. he said it was personal. when i don't think it was. every player that has had trouble with lb before, especially similar guys like iverson and billups all kept saying the same thing - be quiet, listen to coach, he'll make you better. but marbury never remained quiet...and that's his personality. unfortunately, that may also be the reason he's going to get traded.
fishmike
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4/18/2006  11:26 AM
I have to agree with TMS. I mean they werent out of training camp when Star said I cant do this, make me a shooting guard. Brown never said said he had to limit his shots, just take better ones in the team concept.
My big problem with Marbury is the history. Some of you talk about playing more uptempo. You do realize the best uptempo coach in the NBA now is Mike D and Starbury "didnt buy into his system.. I didnt either" were Penny's exact words. Too many players to ignore say Steph is difficult to play with. Then you watch him on the court, and you see what people are talking about. How many times last year did you see Steph get beat off the dribble, then turn and yell at Nazr for not helping. No wonder Kurt called him out.

Whats George Bush got to do with anything? The GW mentality is total refusal to admit getting this guy was a MISTAKE.

Is Marbury part of the problem here or part of the solution?
Is Larry Brown part of the problem here or part of the solution?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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4/18/2006  11:29 AM
dj.. well thought out and I agree. You have a good command of the English language.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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4/18/2006  11:31 AM
Posted by fishmike:

dj.. well thought out and I agree. You have a good command of the English language.

i do speak english good.
nyk4ever
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4/18/2006  11:32 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by fishmike:

dj.. well thought out and I agree. You have a good command of the English language.

i do speak english good.

LOL.

Fish, DJ. You guys have taken the words out of my mouth on this thread.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Allanfan20
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4/18/2006  11:42 AM
fishmike, you think that if Nazr won yet another championship with the Spurs this Summer, and was traded back to the Knicks this Summer, it would be the same story with him and Marbs? Or you think Nazr would have the courage to stand up to him, now that HE has won, and Steph hasn't.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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4/18/2006  11:44 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

George Bush? lol I think there are a whole number of players on the team that probably wouldn't have flourished the way they have under Brown, and that includes Iverson, Billups, and NOW, I think Robinson would have been the same dumbars player along with Crawford, but they both seem to be taking off. Woods, I'm on the fence with, but all the rooks seem to be doing nicely under him too.

The Knicks need to cleanse themselves, not put more crap in the system by firing more coaches. It hasn't worked one time yet. Not once.
George Bush could have done a better coaching job!

fishmike
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4/18/2006  11:59 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

fishmike, you think that if Nazr won yet another championship with the Spurs this Summer, and was traded back to the Knicks this Summer, it would be the same story with him and Marbs? Or you think Nazr would have the courage to stand up to him, now that HE has won, and Steph hasn't.
more of the same. Marbury has a dominating personality. Nazr just shows up, plays hard and does what the coach says. Also Marbury is a 20/8 career player and went to all star games. Nazr is a nice role player that won title(s) playing with Duncan, Manu and Parker.
This is why its so imperative for your best players to lead and lead by example. Marbury has openly questioned the coach since training camp. That was BEFORE Larry said anything in the press. So here's our best player, our team leader on the court and he's throwing out doubts and questioning the coach before the season even starts.

Big problem.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
DarkKnicks
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4/18/2006  12:01 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Marbury has openly questioned the coach since training camp. That was BEFORE Larry said anything in the press.
This is not true.
fishmike
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4/18/2006  12:20 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by fishmike:

Marbury has openly questioned the coach since training camp. That was BEFORE Larry said anything in the press.
This is not true.
pretty sure it is... Bip consolidated some of the quotes, but did or didnt Marbury say he expected his #s to go down, and didnt care about stats so long as they were winning? And so long as they are winning there wont be problems? Didnt Marbury make "suggestions" during camp the press? Stuff like him playing shooting guard? Maybe my memory isnt serving me here (wouldnt be the first time). Correct me if I am wrong.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Not 1 player has flourished under LB, Not 1!!!

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