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Not the best press for Scowlbury. Larry wants "Head".
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Nalod
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3/19/2006  9:42 AM


New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com
The fall of a Starbury
By FRANK ISOLA & MICHAEL O'KEEFFE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITERS
Sunday, March 19th, 2006

Kurt Thomas was still months away from joining the Phoenix Suns when he stood side-by-side with Amare Stoudemire as they waited for Stephon Marbury to shoot free throws during a game last season.

The former Knick does some of his best work on the blocks, chatting up opposing players the way a first baseman talks to base runners. He's made Shaquille O'Neal double over with laughter; he's brought smiles to the faces of the NBA's grouchiest referees.

And on this night, Thomas cracked up Stoudemire by telling the Suns forward something he'd been pondering for weeks: "I can't stand playing with Stephon Marbury."

It wasn't supposed to be like this. Twenty-seven months ago, the kid from Coney Island thought he had fulfilled a lifelong dream by coming home to play for the Knicks at Madison Square Garden. The Patrick Ewing era was over and the electrifying run to the 1999 NBA Finals was fading into ancient history.

When Marbury returned to New York in January 2004, Knicks fans believed the explosive point guard who had been a hoops star since his days at Brooklyn's Lincoln High would jolt new life into an aging and uninspired team. Some even believed Marbury would deliver the NBA championship that had long eluded the team.

As the Knicks limp toward the end of what might be the worst season in team history, it's painfully obvious that Marbury isn't the savior of the franchise. The one-time schoolboy hero may now be the most reviled athlete in New York. Fans no longer cheer him - instead, they see him as a cancer in the locker room, an overpaid malcontent who would rather snipe at coach Larry Brown and feud with his teammates than do whatever it takes to win.

The words "excellence" and "commitment" are tattooed on Marbury's body, a constant reminder that he displays neither, certainly not this season.

"It hasn't worked out the way everyone thought it would," says Mark Jackson, the former Knicks point guard who has known Marbury for years. "Stephon Marbury came in with a lot of baggage and hasn't found success in New York. But this is a collective effort. There is plenty of blame to go around."

Several team sources say the only way Marbury can survive is if Larry Brown leaves first, and considering Brown's nomadic history, that's possible. But Brown has repeatedly vowed to return, and the $40 million he's scheduled to make over the next four years gives him a mighty good reason to keep his word.

Knicks president Isiah Thomas, meanwhile, says he is committed to acquiring players suited to Brown's style and temperament.

"I don't know why you play a team sport (if you are not) concerned with making your teammates better and helping your team win games," Brown said last week in the midst of one the most vitriolic exchanges between player and coach in NBA history. "That's the only thing that matters."

* * *

Coney Island is a bleak place during the cold months, when the icy wind blasts in from the Atlantic, slamming against the shuttered food stands along the famed boardwalk and rattling the deserted roller coasters and carousels. Trash blows up and down side streets; the junk yards, cheap furniture stores, housing projects and industrial buildings look especially bleak during the gray days of winter.

But in January 2004, as the F train pulled into its final stop at Avenue X, a group of high school boys wearing Knicks jerseys and hats celebrated, cheering and laughing like they had just won the lottery.

"Starbury is back in New York!" one of the kids chanted. "We're going to the NBA Finals!"

Not all Knicks fans were so optimistic, but even cynical supporters saw a reason to believe in Marbury's return to the Big Apple.

Isiah Thomas, hired as the Knicks' president a month earlier, had announced he was ready to shake things up with younger, quicker players. He engineered the trade that brought Marbury to New York from Phoenix soon after he took the job. A few weeks later he canned head coach Don Chaney and hired Lenny Wilkens. Many people thought Wilkens, a Brooklyn native and a former point guard, had the patience, knowledge and experience to transform Marbury from perennial underachiever to truly great player.

Looking back, it's difficult to understand why expectations were so high. It's true that Marbury is a two-time All-Star who has posted big numbers everywhere he's played. He and the legendary Oscar Robertson are the only two players in NBA history to average 20-plus points and eight assists per game for a career. He's also durable, having appeared in 280 consecutive games before suffering a shoulder injutry on Jan. 16.

But great players make those around them better - and Marbury's former teams - Minnesota, New Jersey, Phoenix - all improved after he departed. The Nets reached the NBA Finals the year after Marbury was traded for Jason Kidd. The Suns won 62 games last season with Steve Nash running the point and are close to securing the second seed in the Western Conference this season.

Meanwhile, Marbury-led teams have never gotten out of the first round of the playoffs. He has an uncanny knack for alienating teammates and frustrating coaches. The scowl on his face at times seems permanent.

"I think he's a good teammate," says Jamal Crawford. "Steph plays with a scowl. That's his disposition. But he wants to win and that's all that matters."

Of course, all NBA players want to win - an overwhelming drive to succeed is one difference between good athletes and those who are among the best in the world. But Marbury has never understood that he can't get by on talent alone, that there are concessions and sacrifices superstars have to make to lift their teams. That became apparent the moment Marbury stepped into the Knicks' locker room: Hours after greeting his new team and before playing his first game, Marbury was shocking his teammates by blasting music from his cubicle. It wasn't the crude rap lyrics that stunned the players; it was the idea that music - a definite no-no during the Pat Riley and Jeff Van Gundy years unless a player was wearing headphones - was filling the space.

It didn't help that Marbury already had one strike against him with many of his new teammates: They weren't happy about remarks he made about Charlie Ward years earlier.

Marbury had told reporters in 1998 that the Knicks would never win a championship with Ward as their point guard, and his prediction proved to be accurate. But Ward was a key contributor when the Knicks reached the '99 Finals, and he was a popular figure in the locker room, respected for his toughness and leadership. That fact that Ward was shipped to Phoenix as part of the deal that brought Marbury to the Garden only inflamed tensions.

Still, Marbury was the key player in Isiah Thomas' first major transaction at the Garden, and the Knicks' president wasted no time in handing the keys to the franchise to his new point guard. Whenever Marbury was unhappy, he went straight upstairs to complain to Thomas. It was an arrangement that created division in the locker room. Many of Marbury's teammates felt he hadn't earned the right to be treated like Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal or Kobe Bryant.

Some of Marbury's teammates also were outraged by what they saw as the guard's double standard. At a team meeting last season, as rumors swirled that Wilkens was on the verge of being fired, the coach spoke to his team, telling them to concentrate on playing basketball and not worry about outside distractions.

When Wilkens was finished speaking, Marbury repeated most of the coach's message to the team, using profanity to puncuate his words and get his point across. When he was finished, the Knicks took the floor for practice with one exception: Marbury remained in the locker room for a massage.

* * *

After playing a year of college ball at Georgia Tech and his first two seasons of pro ball in Minnesota, Marbury finally got his wish - sort of - when the Timberwolves sent him to the New Jersey Nets in 1999. They weren't the Knicks and it wasn't the Garden, but Marbury, who had longed to play before his friends, family and hometown fans, was finally back home.

The year after his return, Marbury signed a deal with Wilhelmina Sports, a division of the international modeling agency, to represent him in negotiations for product endorsements and personal appearances. When the deal was finally completed at Wilhelmina's offices near Union Square, president Dieter Esch broke out a bottle of Champagne and poured glasses for Marbury and Marbury's then-business manager, his sister Marcia.

Esch toasted Marbury and said the kid from Coney had huge potential: "We see him involved with anything to do with fashion. Clothes, fragrances, casual wear, other kinds of opportunities beyond the traditional sneaker deal."

Models stopped in for a sip of bubbly and an opportunity to meet the rising star. Marbury was young, talented and rich, surrounded by beautiful women, but he seemed suspicious of his good fortune. He sat on a couch and nursed his drink, saying very little, a scowl on his face as Esch and his sister celebrated.

"He's not a happy person," says Rob Johnson, the Queens basketball consultant who has known Marbury since he was a kid. "Steph treats everyone with a cold shoulder. I know he takes care of a lot of people and he does a lot of good with his summer tournament. But he's very moody and he's hard to get along with."

Some of Marbury's longtime friends, however, say the same drive that lifted him out of Coney Island's mean streets will also help him turn around his NBA career.

"There's no doubt in my mind he wants to win," says Bobby Hartstein, Marbury's coach at Lincoln High School. "I'm sure Steph will make whatever adjustments he needs to make in order to win."

Still, Marbury always seems to go out of his way to isolate himself from his teammates. He forced the trade from Minnesota because he was jealous of his more talented and popular teammate, Kevin Garnett. In New Jersey, Marbury is remembered for writing "All Alone" on his sneakers. In New York, Kurt Thomas became so tired of what he calls Marbury's negative attitude that he threatened to fight him.

His ugly feud with Brown began prior to the 2004 Olympics - Brown coached the American team and Marbury was its point guard - and it reached its nadir last week. Their latest war of words began in November, when Brown praised Bucks point guard T.J. Ford following a loss to Milwaukee.

Then Brown said of the Knicks, "We don't have a head out there."

Last week, Marbury and Brown spent four days trading insults and driving what appears to be a permanent wedge into their relationship. Despite a few bright spots this season - primarily a six-game winning streak in January - their feud appears to be the final chapter in a season that is by any measure an unmitigated disaster.

"Anyone who witnessed what happened at the Olympics saw this coming," Jackson says. "There is no denying that Stephon Marbury is a great player and Larry Brown is a great coach. But as far as being the type of point guard that Larry wants, Stephon doesn't fit the mold."
AUTOADVERT
teslawlo
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3/19/2006  9:59 AM
that was a great article.
http://allknicks.com
holfresh
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3/19/2006  10:05 AM

You Marbs haters should form you own private organization...Invite Kurt Thomas and KVH for you annual speeches...It might just give you guys a forum to just get over it...
Elite
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3/19/2006  10:21 AM
if this is all true i am reallyt starting to hate steph and at one point he was my fav player
McK1
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3/19/2006  10:55 AM
Posted by holfresh:


You Marbs haters should form you own private organization...Invite Kurt Thomas and KVH for you annual speeches...It might just give you guys a forum to just get over it...

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=15171&page=3

scroll down to blueseats posts and read
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Silverfuel
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3/19/2006  11:01 AM
Posted by holfresh:


You Marbs haters should form you own private organization...Invite Kurt Thomas and KVH for you annual speeches...It might just give you guys a forum to just get over it...
You need to read what everyone is saying about Marbury instead of having so much blind faith in him! Its not about the player, its about the team! Play for the front of the uniform, not whats written on the back! Same way, we are Knicks fans first, not Marbury/Frye/Lee/Curry/Nate etc fans first!
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
simrud
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3/19/2006  11:05 AM
How does this make you hate him more? If anything its easier to understand him. I think he either needs to change, or he will never do anything good for himself as far as winning is concerned. Maybe he sould take a page out of Payton's book, the dude is just as much of an ahole, but he played defense and went to the finals.

The atitude Marbury has is fine if he walks the walk. The problem with the teammates is that he talks the talk, but refuses to walk the walk. If he played hardnosed D and got into opposing players faces ala Payton, and just generally came acorss as a competitive pcycho once again like Payton, his teammates would respect just like the respected Payton, and just how they respect the like of Artest.

Besides, the majority of NBA playes are soft anyways, they just can't handle a dude gettin in their face being pampered all their life, being the golden children, surrounded by a possie that protects them, so thats another reason they "don't like" Marbury. Its a combination of the general pusification of the NBA and Marbury's bad personality.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
bigbeast
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3/19/2006  11:12 AM
It's no denying that Marbs has tons of baggage. My only problem is, alot of you guys are making this one-sided. Brown has just as much baggage if not more. Why don't you re-up the Vecsey article.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
simrud
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3/19/2006  11:15 AM
Yeah but Brown has won so thats really all thereis to it.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
tkf
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3/19/2006  12:27 PM
good article, KT was a good guy, a class act, he didn't get along with marbury and was traded, by marbs backer, IT.. Well KT is going to the playoffs, on an excting team, I am happy for him...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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3/19/2006  1:32 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

It's no denying that Marbs has tons of baggage. My only problem is, alot of you guys are making this one-sided. Brown has just as much baggage if not more. Why don't you re-up the Vecsey article.


We did. Larry is no perfect sage. But hes the coach. Statbury is a sullen malcontent whom is not liked by his team and won't listen to his coach.

If Larry goes, Marbs stays and what? He can't respect Lenny or Larry, he gonna respect Herb? Whats good for Steph is not nesesary good fo the team.

Most of us are very disapointed and did lash at the "hating media" for all the anti marb this, and Can't get along with Larry that, but denial won't make it anybetter.

The problem is compromise is not in his vocabulary. I am surprised that Isiah was never able to get thru to him. Not "break him", not "train him", not make him "sell out", but just get with the program of being on a team.

I suppose there are a few that will always root for the MeWells and Statbury's, both whom are great talents, but just not in tune with how to make a team succeed. They are successful by all measures, but steph is at a stage of his career where he has it all exept the experience of winning.
holfresh
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3/19/2006  1:53 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by holfresh:


You Marbs haters should form you own private organization...Invite Kurt Thomas and KVH for you annual speeches...It might just give you guys a forum to just get over it...
You need to read what everyone is saying about Marbury instead of having so much blind faith in him! Its not about the player, its about the team! Play for the front of the uniform, not whats written on the back! Same way, we are Knicks fans first, not Marbury/Frye/Lee/Curry/Nate etc fans first!



This has nothing to do with blind faith...It's the same thing all over again rehashed a different way...We, at least I, have heard all the Kurt Thomas stories B4, All the stories about he's is not easy to get along with...When Kurt was here, he had problems with the refs in his reactions to them that cause us to dislike him a bit...Now whatever he says is gospel...What they are saying is nothing new...We can take three incidents with Marbs and blow it into 300 news stories..Am I going to get upset when I see a new version....You can, I won't....The Knicks have not won a championship yet and it's Marbs fault because he is not happy is what that story is about...Yet, you wonder why I don't buy into yet another why we should hate Marbs story...




[Edited by - holfresh on 03-19-2006 1:55 PM]
TMS
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3/19/2006  2:05 PM
He forced the trade from Minnesota because he was jealous of his more talented and popular teammate, Kevin Garnett.

wow, that sounds eerily familiar to a post i made last week... i guess Frank Isola's a hater too.
"as far as being the type of point guard that Larry wants, Stephon doesn't fit the mold."- Mark Jackson

deja vu yet again... i guess Mark Jackson's just a hater also.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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3/19/2006  2:21 PM
Posted by TMS:
He forced the trade from Minnesota because he was jealous of his more talented and popular teammate, Kevin Garnett.

wow, that sounds eerily familiar to a post i made last week... i guess Frank Isola's a hater too.
"as far as being the type of point guard that Larry wants, Stephon doesn't fit the mold."- Mark Jackson

deja vu yet again... i guess Mark Jackson's just a hater also.



Well Mark Jackson never said he forced a trade from Minny because of jealousy..Isola did...What Jackson said about not fiiting the mold of a Larry trype point guard is nothing new....We all knew this b4 Larry and Marbs got together in this latest marriage...


And this thing about Marbs being jealous of Garnett, I guess thats wy Marbs want to play with Garnett again so badly...If there is one thing you should all know about Marbs at this point is that he is brutally honest...I won't let Isolas of the world formulate an opinion of a guy that you can get directly from him...



djsunyc
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3/19/2006  2:24 PM
i agree, there's nothing new in this article.

it comes down to this - alot of sh t has been said between steph + lb. and at this point, lb has all the power. so either steph totally humbles himself and does what he's told or he'll be traded. that's pretty much the situation right now. doesn't matter who's right or who's wrong, that's just the way it is. but from steph's recent comments, he pretty much doesn't care about the ramifications anymore and he's accepted the fact that he will be traded. so i don't forsee himself "conforming" to lb.
holfresh
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3/19/2006  2:32 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i agree, there's nothing new in this article.

it comes down to this - alot of sh t has been said between steph + lb. and at this point, lb has all the power. so either steph totally humbles himself and does what he's told or he'll be traded. that's pretty much the situation right now. doesn't matter who's right or who's wrong, that's just the way it is. but from steph's recent comments, he pretty much doesn't care about the ramifications anymore and he's accepted the fact that he will be traded. so i don't forsee himself "conforming" to lb.



I totally agree with you...Steph has to bend more...It's going to be interesting...The problem is that the press has taken sides and will try to bury the other with public opinion and sentiment...
All three guys have alot riding on this...Steph Isiah and Larry...



TMS
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3/19/2006  2:33 PM
Posted by holfresh:

What Jackson said about not fiiting the mold of a Larry trype point guard is nothing new....We all knew this b4 Larry and Marbs got together in this latest marriage...

which is why some of us want Marbury shipped outta here... if you'd rather have LB shipped outta here, that's your prerogative... i simply don't agree that would be the answer to helping this franchise build towards winning a title... i don't see why you're constantly trying to accuse people of hatin' on Steph when all we're saying is that he's a horrible fit for what LB's trying to accomplish in NY, & that's having this team winning an NBA title while playing good, fundamental, team-oriented style basketball

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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3/19/2006  2:46 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

What Jackson said about not fiiting the mold of a Larry trype point guard is nothing new....We all knew this b4 Larry and Marbs got together in this latest marriage...

which is why some of us want Marbury shipped outta here... if you'd rather have LB shipped outta here, that's your prerogative... i simply don't agree that would be the answer to helping this franchise build towards winning a title... i don't see why you're constantly trying to accuse people of hatin' on Steph when all we're saying is that he's a horrible fit for what LB's trying to accomplish in NY, & that's having this team winning an NBA title while playing good, fundamental, team-oriented style basketball


Good point....Well the way I see it...Players makes style,not the other way around...Yeah, Larry's style can be implemented and we could run with that..but it doesn't totally suit the skill set of these players....Larry will be long gone b4 we get the type of player to make Larry happy and successful...Larry is a great coach..I'll never deny that...But we have players that can get into the playoffs anc scare a few people...A championship..I'm not too sure about that...But if you think that Larry can implement his style of play and win in 3 years, you are kidding yourself...Detroit had the perfect players for that system...They are all half court players and Larry recognized that..They execute very well in the half court and anchored by an all defense individual in Ben Wallace...When Sheed and Price came along..long arms and play good defense..that was the icing on the cake...It's was a no brainer for Larry to run to the job in detroit to get his only Champoinship....

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-19-2006 2:47 PM]
rojasmas
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3/19/2006  2:53 PM
I agree with Vescey that all 3 have to go: LB, Marbs and Isiah. We need a fresh start with a coach who can relate to our uptempo type youth. Paul Westphal would be a good candidate. Nice guy, smart, much more easygoing than LB. Patient.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
TMS
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3/19/2006  2:54 PM
A championship..I'm not too sure about that...But if you think that Larry can implement his style of play and win in 3 years, you are kidding yourself

for me, it's all about creating a culture of winning in NY & BUILDING TOWARDS that championship... i don't see that happening as long as Marbury's on the team... whether LB can win one or not, who knows, but i do know that he'll leave this team better than he got it, & they'll be a better franchise for having LB as thier coach in the long run.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Not the best press for Scowlbury. Larry wants "Head".

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