[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

why isiah made this trade? (chad ford)
Author Thread
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
2/22/2006  4:27 PM
Why Isiah made this trade
posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2006

Steve Francis for Penny Hardaway and Trevor Ariza?

Knicks fans, I finally get Isiah Thomas.

But if he keeps making moves like this, I won't have to get him much longer.

There's an old adage in the NBA that whomever gets the best player in any given deal is usually the winner of the deal.

Thomas is trying single-handedly to prove that adage is bogus.

Isiah's goal in every trade appears to be to come out of the trade with the best player -- contracts and chemistry be damned.

Look back over his deals for Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry, Tim Thomas, Jalen Rose and now Steve Francis. In every instance, Isiah got the best player in the trade (not including future draft picks).

He must believe something like this: "If I have the most talent, the deepest bench, the highest-paid coach, and the most media coverage, the wins will come."

This is a dream scenario for Orlando. The team balked earlier in the week at a similar deal that would've sent Hardaway, Jamal Crawford and Ariza for combo of Francis, Tony Battie and Pat Garrity because Orlando's brain trust of Otis Smith and Dave Twardzik decided, after calling around the league, that Crawford might present the same chemistry problems that Francis did.

They were willing to lose the trade on talent to win it at ever other level. Cap management and chemistry are more important to a rebuilding team like Orlando.

And, in trading Hardaway's contract to Orlando, Isiah gave the Magic his best bargaining chip. He might want to consult Smith and Twardzik in the near future about how to really rebuild a team. The Magic come out of the trade deadline in great shape for the future.

The Knicks? Ugh.

Steve Francis isn't the missing piece. Neither is Marbury, Crawford, Curry or Rose. There's a reason teams are willing to trade these players for draft picks and expiring contracts -- they don't want them.

No one denies their individual talent. What they all have in common is that wherever they go, chemistry disruptions ensue and losing follows. They are me-first players, more interested in the stat sheet than the win column, and they all think they are better than they actually are. They'll give you highlight plays, amazing individual performances and huge number of lottery balls in May.

I can understand why Isiah believes he's on the verge of building a winner this way. He's been drinking from the same cup that David Stern has been feeding us all of these years -- that somehow basketball is really about a handful of individual superstars who can make our jaws drop on the fly.

Stars can win you a championship. In recent decades, the Lakers, Spurs, Bulls, Rockets and Celtics have proved that. But putting too many players on the floor who think they are stars is a recipe for disaster.

It makes you wonder whether Isiah really played on the same team Joe Dumars did in the late '80s. Dumars looked at his years playing with the Pistons and came to the conclusion that chemistry, work ethic and guys who could fill a particular role were the foundation of a contender. Isiah came to the opposite conclusion.
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/22/2006  4:30 PM
yea well... that is the downside. Based on the record Chad's right until the Knicks prove him otherwise.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
2/22/2006  4:32 PM
again, Larry Brown was the guy behind this trade and shocka no mention of the Hall of Fame coach in this article.
¿ △ ?
Elite
Posts: 26372
Alba Posts: 23
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #510

2/22/2006  4:34 PM
this is nothing but the truth
firefly
Posts: 23237
Alba Posts: 17
Joined: 7/26/2004
Member: #721
United Kingdom
2/22/2006  4:37 PM
If you can call Isiah an idiot for doing this trade, you dont deserve to be affiliated with basketball. It may not work, it may crash and burn, Francis may be completely useless in NY, but one thing is for sure. If one expiring contract makes no material difference to your cap room, you make that deal. No ifs no buts. Isiah knows this was a good trade, and I dont care who says it isnt.

This will really bring the blinkered media out of the woodwork. If you can bust Isiah's Mobleys for this, just shows your only saying it to ride the Knick-hating bandwagon.

Chad Ford can lick my sweaty nut sack to quote Adam Sandler.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
Nalod
Posts: 71929
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
2/22/2006  4:39 PM
Chad said what I have been preaching for some time. AKA: STARPHUCHING!

Deal by deal, Isiah does ok, but the final recipe sucks.

Tomato sauce and Coconut are yummy. But not in the same dish!

Larry's "disaster" is not with him, but the flawed team he has.

Isiah is being a man and not throwing Larry under the bus, and I think Larry has really tried to not blast Isiah out publically that his roster is $hit.

We as fans love the deal by deal thing because most of us (some do) can't see the chemistry and balance of personalities needs of a team.

If larry is down with Francis, Im ok with it for now. I can't imagine its just Isiah on this.
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/22/2006  4:43 PM
I was talking to another poster off line today about this. IF we can get a rugged rebounder to put up front with Curry/Frye (my fetish is for Reggie Evans) than this is where Larry Brown really comes in. This is what you pay a $10mm a year coach for. A guy thats got the cojones and moxy to get two guys like Francis and Marbury to play together and play winning basketball. Teacher is nice, but freakin Herb can teach Frye and Curry how to box out. We dont need LB for that. We do need LB because he's one of 2-3 guys in the NBA that look a 3 time all star making max money in the face and say your wrong. Do it this way or have a seat. Herb, Lenny and Duck sure as hell couldnt do that.

Go get me Reggie Evans. I think he's a Rodman/Oakley hybrid and given 30 minutes at the 4/5 will give you 8 points and 13-14 boards a night, especially with this cast. I think he's the key. Then you bring Frye off the bench along with Lee, Crawford, Q and whoever else.

Nate for Evans... let Larry earn his check.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jaydh
Posts: 23150
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/16/2001
Member: #96
2/22/2006  4:45 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Nate for Evans... let Larry earn his check.


i'm down with that.
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
2/22/2006  4:48 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I was talking to another poster off line today about this. IF we can get a rugged rebounder to put up front with Curry/Frye (my fetish is for Reggie Evans) than this is where Larry Brown really comes in. This is what you pay a $10mm a year coach for. A guy thats got the cojones and moxy to get two guys like Francis and Marbury to play together and play winning basketball. Teacher is nice, but freakin Herb can teach Frye and Curry how to box out. We dont need LB for that. We do need LB because he's one of 2-3 guys in the NBA that look a 3 time all star making max money in the face and say your wrong. Do it this way or have a seat. Herb, Lenny and Duck sure as hell couldnt do that.

Go get me Reggie Evans. I think he's a Rodman/Oakley hybrid and given 30 minutes at the 4/5 will give you 8 points and 13-14 boards a night, especially with this cast. I think he's the key. Then you bring Frye off the bench along with Lee, Crawford, Q and whoever else.

Nate for Evans... let Larry earn his check.

amen. if you're going to go with Larry, give him his vets. can't argue with that.

Kmart or Evans would be nice. Evans would be nicer, but it seems like Kmart is more likely.
¿ △ ?
vinzie27
Posts: 20037
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2001
Member: #129
2/22/2006  4:49 PM
ahah I FIGURED IT OUT!

Isiah is putting together entertaining losers to get draft picks, and rebuild through draft like that!

now.. if he only holds on to his lottery picks...

knixphan
Posts: 20546
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/20/2002
Member: #258
Switzerland
2/22/2006  4:50 PM
I'm with firefly on this, Chad can have my nut-sack as well.
"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
Nalod
Posts: 71929
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
2/22/2006  4:56 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I was talking to another poster off line today about this. IF we can get a rugged rebounder to put up front with Curry/Frye (my fetish is for Reggie Evans) than this is where Larry Brown really comes in. This is what you pay a $10mm a year coach for. A guy thats got the cojones and moxy to get two guys like Francis and Marbury to play together and play winning basketball. Teacher is nice, but freakin Herb can teach Frye and Curry how to box out. We dont need LB for that. We do need LB because he's one of 2-3 guys in the NBA that look a 3 time all star making max money in the face and say your wrong. Do it this way or have a seat. Herb, Lenny and Duck sure as hell couldnt do that.

Go get me Reggie Evans. I think he's a Rodman/Oakley hybrid and given 30 minutes at the 4/5 will give you 8 points and 13-14 boards a night, especially with this cast. I think he's the key. Then you bring Frye off the bench along with Lee, Crawford, Q and whoever else.

Nate for Evans... let Larry earn his check.


Evens is a nice player. But thats not how we do it.

Rugged tough guy?

With flair, with pomp and circumstance. with Risk and fanfair.

Kenyon Martin!

PUt the lime in the coconut and put it all together...............
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30255
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
2/22/2006  4:57 PM
Isiah allways goes after the guy with the most talent. But the million dollar question is. Deos he do it to add as much assets as possible and then us that flexability to build the team. Maybe thats his way of rebuilding??? Or deos he really think that these type of moves will make us a winner?? If so then you would think he would learn from his previous seasons.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
BigRedDog
Posts: 22226
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 1/23/2004
Member: #569
2/22/2006  5:05 PM
rumor has evans is going to denver for watson

[Edited by - BigRedDog on 02-22-2006 5:05 PM]
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
Posts: 26191
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 6/24/2002
Member: #263
USA
2/22/2006  5:05 PM
Chad FRAUD can go to hell where all Knicks haters belong.

In his eyes, nothing the Knicks do or plan is (or can never be) ever right. Haters don't matter.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
2/22/2006  5:07 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Chad FRAUD can go to hell where all Knicks haters belong.

In his eyes, nothing the Knicks do or plan is (or can never be) ever right. Haters don't matter.

the only way to silence these haters will be to win with this crazy lineup. we'll see about that.
¿ △ ?
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
Posts: 26191
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 6/24/2002
Member: #263
USA
2/22/2006  5:12 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Chad FRAUD can go to hell where all Knicks haters belong.

In his eyes, nothing the Knicks do or plan is (or can never be) ever right. Haters don't matter.

the only way to silence these haters will be to win with this crazy lineup. we'll see about that.

You're right about that.

BTW, that bastard Hollinger just jumped on the Chad Fraud bandwagon.

Thursday, January 26, 2006
Magic wipe floor with Knicks in Francis trade

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By John Hollinger
ESPN Insider

The Orlando Magic have mass-produced managerial blunders during the past few seasons, so let's give some props to the tag-team GM combo of Otis Smith and Dave Twardzik for their two deals this month.

In a matter of weeks, the duo -- led by Smith, who handles most of the team's trade matters -- has completely rebuilt what had become a depressingly mediocre team into a club that should become one of the league's best teams by the end of the decade.


The latest move, unloading Steve Francis for Penny Hardaway and Trevor Ariza, was the Magic's best yet.
Even if he had stopped moping, Francis wouldn't be worth half the money he's owed over the next few seasons. Not only is he turnover-prone and infamous for his willingess to spend 20 or more of the shot clock's 24 seconds relentlessly pounding the air out of the ball like it was a spherical piñata, he also played the same position as one of the Magic's best and least expensive players, Jameer Nelson.


Now Francis is Isiah Thomas' problem (kind of like Jalen Rose, Stephon Marbury, Maurice Taylor, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, Malik Rose and Quentin Richardson … but I digress). Francis is owed close to $50 million over the final three years of his deal, numbers that apparently don't bother the Knicks, since their payroll now dwarfs the national debt.

With Hardaway's contract expiring after this year and Ariza expected to re-sign cheaply as a restricted free agent, the Magic would be $15 million to $20 million under the salary cap (depending on that year's cap number) when Grant Hill's contract expires after next season.

The Magic's timing is impeccable when one considers the names potentially available in 2007 -- forget about LeBron James and the other stars from the class of '03, since they'll sign extensions, but there's also Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Dirk Nowitzki, Gerald Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Mike Bibby, Rashard Lewis, Antawn Jamison and Jamaal Magloire.

That's the same summer that the Magic will likely extend the deals of Dwight Howard and Nelson, and 2007 also probably represents Orlando's last opportunity to play the market for the next several years.

Because of that, just dumping Francis' contract makes the deal a home run. What really puts it over the top, however, are two other things.

First, Orlando didn't need to take any contracts back -- earlier reports had the Magic accepting Taylor or Jamal Crawford.

Second, how about this? Regardless of contracts, which player would you rather have three years from now -- Francis or Ariza? Sure, Ariza isn't much to look at right now, but he's also 20 years old, an outstanding athlete and is suffocating under his coach's iron grip. Before learning how to "play the right way" he had been one of the league's top rookies in 2004-05, even though he had just one year of college ball under his belt.

Contrast that with Francis, whose best days are pretty clearly behind him and will have to make a major adjustment to become a complementary player. I'm not saying I'd plunk down 10 grand on an even-money bet that Ariza would be better in three years, but it's a closer call than you'd think.

Considering the massive dollop of cap relief the Knicks gave the Magic, it's hard to believe the Knicks actually gave the Magic a player who might be comparable in quality. And get this? Even with all the problems Orlando has had, the Magic are four games ahead of the Knicks in the standings.

Fortunately for Orlando fans, their management's willingness to be honest about their position in the world allowed them to pull off two great deals just before the trade deadline. With a front line of Howard and Darko Milicic, Nelson anchoring the backcourt, future talents like Ariza and Fran Vazquez, a lottery choice this spring and their pick of the free agent litter (remember, Florida has no income tax), the Magic are set for the future.

And the Knicks? They just seem set to spend more money.

___________________________________________________________

Some of those punks at ESPN really need their asses kicked.

Haters DO NOT MATTER.


Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

2/22/2006  5:21 PM
I'm down with fishy. Give Larry what he wants and maybe now he will do his job.

As we speak thee roster is redundant and there needs to be a secondary trade to loosen up the roster. Who is available that is worth the trouble?

Anyway, isiah is a hustler. I never seen a GM go out there and get his man like that in the NBA.

Its all on brown now.
Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
MX25
Posts: 20591
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/20/2004
Member: #555
USA
2/22/2006  5:56 PM
Just keep adding guys with bad shoot selections,no defense,no heart or fire and low IQ and oh yea making alot of money. Typical Isiah. Can't wait till April when knick fans want francis gone.
jaydh
Posts: 23150
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/16/2001
Member: #96
2/22/2006  6:02 PM
Posted by MX25:

Just keep adding guys with bad shoot selections,no defense,no heart or fire and low IQ and oh yea making alot of money. Typical Isiah. Can't wait till April when knick fans want francis gone.

his shooting % is really not bad at all. i think that the only ones that will want him gone are the ones that didnt want this deal in the first place.
why isiah made this trade? (chad ford)

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy