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Rose trade hurts us in the long run
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MS
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2/21/2006  9:54 AM
After watching Villenueva in the rookie game, I think Isiah really ****ed up by making this Rose deal, Toronto might already have the most athletic 3-4 combo in the league and this ******* has given them cap room to keep Bosh in toronto; and make a play at a free agent....

They add another nice piece in the draft and Grahman gives them anything next year they are well on there way to being a better team than us; Bosh is already a top 15 player in the league and only getting better, frankly Isiah's short sightedness scares me....not to mention that he only made the move to save his ass in the long run and is now taking minutes away from the young kids which in a lost season is priceless
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djsunyc
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2/21/2006  9:57 AM
we got jalen so isiah isn't left holding his d ck in his hand on draft night.

$34 mil is alot to pay to make up for the mistake of not protecting the eddy curry pick...
Bonn1997
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2/21/2006  10:19 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

we got jalen so isiah isn't left holding his d ck in his hand on draft night.

$34 mil is alot to pay to make up for the mistake of not protecting the eddy curry pick...
You suggesting Isiah wouldn't have done this deal if we had our own pick? I doubt that. He's consistently looked to add mid 1st rd picks in exchange for taking back salary or giving up an aging player. This is the fourth 1st round pick in 12 months he's acquired using that approach (and only the 1st one since the Curry trade).

djsunyc
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2/21/2006  10:30 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:

we got jalen so isiah isn't left holding his d ck in his hand on draft night.

$34 mil is alot to pay to make up for the mistake of not protecting the eddy curry pick...
You suggesting Isiah wouldn't have done this deal if we had our own pick? I doubt that. He's consistently looked to add mid 1st rd picks in exchange for taking back salary or giving up an aging player. This is the fourth 1st round pick in 12 months he's acquired using that approach (and only the 1st one since the Curry trade).

why did he want to acquire a mid 1st rd pick in the first place bonn? i thought he already evaluated this draft? by him not giving any protection on the pick, he thought we would probably be a playoff team, or close to one. so he traded for, for all intent and purposes, the pick he traded away in the curry deal...but worse.
sbb30
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2/21/2006  10:40 AM
I agree that Isiah thought we'd be closer the playoffs...but maybe, as hard as this will be to believe, he actually can think ahead, and was more ready to give up the pick for Curry because he figured he could get the "same" pick back later on with AD's contract...maybe it was thought through all along, rather than 'oh no, i can't believe i don't have a pick, how do i get one back?'...now that didn't work as hoped, as it didn't turn out to be the "same" pick at all, but I don't believe the Jalen deal was some unplanned CYA-for-draft-night move.
Knight
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2/21/2006  10:45 AM
So your point is that the trade hurts us in the long run because it's possible that Toronto could possibly be so good that we could never beat them? Oh please, you don't make moves on the basis of the unknown moves other teams might make in the future. Anyway, all Toronto had to do was wait until Rose's contract expires next year, they are just one year ahead of schedule without another draft pick.

[Edited by - knight on 02-21-2006 10:46 AM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
mikesknicks
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2/21/2006  10:49 AM
I think Thomas got the pick to trade it W/youngster to get a young Vet. Harrington,Miles,Odom etc.
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Bonn1997
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2/21/2006  11:01 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:

we got jalen so isiah isn't left holding his d ck in his hand on draft night.

$34 mil is alot to pay to make up for the mistake of not protecting the eddy curry pick...
You suggesting Isiah wouldn't have done this deal if we had our own pick? I doubt that. He's consistently looked to add mid 1st rd picks in exchange for taking back salary or giving up an aging player. This is the fourth 1st round pick in 12 months he's acquired using that approach (and only the 1st one since the Curry trade).

why did he want to acquire a mid 1st rd pick in the first place bonn? i thought he already evaluated this draft? by him not giving any protection on the pick, he thought we would probably be a playoff team, or close to one. so he traded for, for all intent and purposes, the pick he traded away in the curry deal...but worse.

I guess you're seeing some connection between the deals that I'm not seeing. Here he saw a chance to acquire a 1st rd pick and get a good veteran and felt he had to jump on the opportunity. I don't see why his decision would have been different if we hadn't done the Eddy Curry deal or if the deal had been done under different terms.
djsunyc
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2/21/2006  11:05 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:

we got jalen so isiah isn't left holding his d ck in his hand on draft night.

$34 mil is alot to pay to make up for the mistake of not protecting the eddy curry pick...
You suggesting Isiah wouldn't have done this deal if we had our own pick? I doubt that. He's consistently looked to add mid 1st rd picks in exchange for taking back salary or giving up an aging player. This is the fourth 1st round pick in 12 months he's acquired using that approach (and only the 1st one since the Curry trade).

why did he want to acquire a mid 1st rd pick in the first place bonn? i thought he already evaluated this draft? by him not giving any protection on the pick, he thought we would probably be a playoff team, or close to one. so he traded for, for all intent and purposes, the pick he traded away in the curry deal...but worse.

I guess you're seeing some connection between the deals that I'm not seeing. Here he saw a chance to acquire a 1st rd pick and get a good veteran and felt he had to jump on the opportunity. I don't see why his decision would have been different if we hadn't done the Eddy Curry deal or if the deal had been done under different terms.

b/c if penny's deal is being rumored for guys like francis, kmart, etc. - then ad's could be used just as well, PLUS, he can still play.

was jalen + #1 in the 20's the BEST we could do for such a big expiring contract? if the guys mentioned above are involved, then why not hold out for something better?

that is your philosophy, right? to use the expirings?

so what if penny + lee turns into kmart + earl.
and AD turns into ratliff + dmiles.

that's much better than kmart + earl and jalen, no?
Knight
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2/21/2006  11:08 AM
penny + lee will never turn into kmart + earl

and

AD would never turn into ratliff + dmiles

Teams don't throw away their best players that easily.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
crzymdups
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2/21/2006  11:11 AM
what if we draft a better player than Toronto signs? isn't it possible that the trade hurts Toronto in the long run?
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martin
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2/21/2006  11:13 AM
Posted by Knight:

penny + lee will never turn into kmart + earl

If NY offered this deal, DEN would jump all over it.

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Knight
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2/21/2006  11:15 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Knight:

penny + lee will never turn into kmart + earl

If NY offered this deal, DEN would jump all over it.

Then it would have been done already.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
martin
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2/21/2006  11:19 AM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Knight:

penny + lee will never turn into kmart + earl

If NY offered this deal, DEN would jump all over it.

Then it would have been done already.

Knicks don't want to give up Lee. Notice all the talk with POR and ORL. It's to drive the price down.
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Marv
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2/21/2006  11:23 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Knight:

penny + lee will never turn into kmart + earl

If NY offered this deal, DEN would jump all over it.

Then it would have been done already.

Knicks don't want to give up Lee. Notice all the talk with POR and ORL. It's to drive the price down.

Martin, do you want KMart on this team?
Bonn1997
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2/21/2006  11:27 AM
b/c if penny's deal is being rumored for guys like francis, kmart, etc. - then ad's could be used just as well, PLUS, he can still play
Would you really rather have K-Mart than Rose plus a pick in the 13 to 22 range? I'd be too worried about K-Mart's knee.
was jalen + #1 in the 20's the BEST we could do for such a big expiring contract?
We don't know that it will be in the 20s but I've written before that I thought we could have gotten * a little* more--perhaps Calderon or Pape Sow included.
I still don't understand your reasoning, though. It sounds like you're saying "Isiah could have gotten more for Penny; therefore, he connected this Rose deal to the Curry deal and settled on this deal." That's a lot of assumptions about Isiah's thought processes. An equally plausible assumption is that he just doesn't value the K-Mart as much as Rose and his shorter contract and a mid 1st rd pick.
that is your philosophy, right? to use the expirings?
MY philosophy? LOL...It's Dolan's philosophy. Mine would be either to get under the cap OR to use the expiring contracts to improve the team. I think either one can work if intelligent decisions are made.
martin
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2/21/2006  11:35 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Knight:

penny + lee will never turn into kmart + earl

If NY offered this deal, DEN would jump all over it.

Then it would have been done already.

Knicks don't want to give up Lee. Notice all the talk with POR and ORL. It's to drive the price down.

Martin, do you want KMart on this team?

it would depend on what the doctors and MRI's say. And if I could dump Penny and Crawford for the likes of Watson and a healthy KMart, hell yes.

KMart is an off the ball type of player and, like Frye, a good compliment to Curry. Tough, rebounder, defender, will get into the face of the Knicks' bigs. He is also a good balance to Marbury's ways in the locker room.

It's all about his knees though.
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joec32033
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2/21/2006  12:34 PM
Martin......exactly how I feel.
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Rich
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2/21/2006  12:47 PM
The trade hurts because it gives Toronto more cap room to re-sign Mike James.
jaydh
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2/21/2006  12:53 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:

we got jalen so isiah isn't left holding his d ck in his hand on draft night.

$34 mil is alot to pay to make up for the mistake of not protecting the eddy curry pick...
You suggesting Isiah wouldn't have done this deal if we had our own pick? I doubt that. He's consistently looked to add mid 1st rd picks in exchange for taking back salary or giving up an aging player. This is the fourth 1st round pick in 12 months he's acquired using that approach (and only the 1st one since the Curry trade).

why did he want to acquire a mid 1st rd pick in the first place bonn? i thought he already evaluated this draft? by him not giving any protection on the pick, he thought we would probably be a playoff team, or close to one. so he traded for, for all intent and purposes, the pick he traded away in the curry deal...but worse.

um, because he was getting the most that he could for an expiring contract
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Rose trade hurts us in the long run
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