For now, I would be so proud of this team if they just stayed the course and did nothing the rest of this season BUT PLAY CURRY, FRYE, LEE, NATE, QYNTEL AND JACKIE. That's all I want to see happen at this point. No trades by the deadline please dear God! ONLY UNLESS (and I've really given this a lot of thought lately):
We can deal Frye to move up, way up, in the draft. After watching him for 50-something games I see Frye as a skilled but severely flawed player (for a guy that's 6'11") that plays with no mean streak in him at all and plays much smaller than his size - I really question if he is one of the players we should build around for the long haul. Before blasting me out of the water, really, really think about it first guys...
Look, don't get me wrong, I like Channing a lot and I was totally in favor of drafting him but I say if we can orchestrate a deal with, say, Seattle or Portland for their top draft pick with a shot at going in a different direction by swapping Channing for what eventually turns out to be Shelden Williams or Rodney Carney I would do it. Either of those two players in my mind would go a long way in re-establishing some identity to this team not to mention give the Knicks an overall better player to build around than Frye and one who will mesh better with the talent that's already here (I'm thinking about meshing with Curry and all of his deficiencies in particular). I want young, gritty, no-nonsense players who will fight you tooth and nail for ever lose ball, for every rebound, for every win etc., an assassin who wants the ball with the game on the line, a guy that plays with a scowl on his face, a guy who will not be out-worked by an opponent, a guy that will come in here and ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT ACCEPT LOSING UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Ask youselves, do you see those qualities in Channing Frye or do you see a guy who's just happy to be here?
Instead of dealing Penny for some long-term, big-money headache, I say let his contract expire outright, concentrate right now on playing the kids and continue to let the rest of the bad contracts expire next year. That should be the gameplan. I want absolutely nothing to do with any of these "veteran" players we've been hearing about lately. Sorry but I didn't get the memo that we were one player away from anything big. Not the case. Not yet. Also, while we're on the subject and just for the record, this Knick fan is 1000% in favor of rebuilding. I actually think it's underway already so just stick to the plan Isiah no matter what crazy ideas Larry might come up concerning immediate help.
Just to be clear, if this team decides to indeed move forward with Frye and Curry together up front (which is probably 99% likely anyway) I will be 100% behind it and I still think it has a shot at being pretty successful. I just think that the ultimate goal has got to be to put the Knicks in a position to compete for the championship and I think that a deal of Frye now while his stock is high to a team that nets us a high draft pick in this upcoming draft would be beneficial in accomplishing that goal. But if it's not there then stand pat, don't panic and stay the course. There I said it. Fire away at me guys!
P.S. - I might also consider dealing our low first rounder to a team like Utah or Seattle for both of their 2nd rounders. I really like some of the projected 2nd round talent out there. Just a thought.
How's this look:
1) Frye for Shelden Williams or Rodney Carney with the lottery pick (the new cornerstone of the franchise)
2) Hilton Armstrong (forget Ratliff, here's your shotblocker Larry) or Richard Roby, Hassan Adams or Brandon Roy (better alternatives at off-guard than what we have right now) with the Denver pick
3) The lower SA pick traded for 2 2nd rounders that we either fill needs with or take a chance with based on what we did with the previous picks: acquire another space eater/rebounder (JP Batista), another PG if they really decide they don't like Nate (Allan Ray, Guillermo Diaz, Marcus Williams, Dee Brown), a lights out perimeter shooter (Taquan Dean), more depth at small forward - especially if we go with Williams instead of Carney (Steven Smith, James White) or take a chance on one of the relatively unknown European talents that shows some promise (Damir Markota, Ivan Chiriaev).
That's my 2 cents. Continue to draft and develop talent until we clear enough cap room to finally bring in a free agent or a veteran when the time's right and it makes sense and when we're finally on the verge of really making a move.

"Just to be clear".. paragraphs would work real well here.

Posted by bigbeast:

Your theory is flawed. You don't trade Channing Frye (who drafted last year at number 8, and hasn't had the time to fully develop) for another number 8 pick in the draft. THAT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

When your rebuilding, you don't trade kids for kids. Especially kids that have no impact on the slalry cap. You trade Veterans (with big contracts that handcuff GAm's from signing FRee agents) that don't figure into the future plans for kids of picks that you can develop and grown with the rest of the young talent you have.

If the Knicks are serious about rebuilding, Marbury would be the one to get traded for that draft pick you want along with expiring contracts. Then you can draft Rodney Carney, or Ronnie Brewer to play alongside Frye and Curry

Only problem with what you're saying is that NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN MARBURY!!!! Brown doesn't like him; he hated him at the Olympics! You don't think he wants him out? There aren't any takers. Even a team like Memphis, who lost Stoudamire to injury and is right in the thick of the playoff race out west, suprisingly isn't interested. Steph still makes way too much money over too long a period and therefore isn't attractive to other teams. Penny Hardaway by himself, expiring contract and all, will under no circumstances bring us a lottery pick in return. The guy can barely walk anymore. He's done. Shot. Capoot. Penny's contract will only bring us a player making insane money that either never lived up to the contract he was awarded in the first place, is injured, is getting old - a shell of what he used to be or has major character flaws. Basically a guy another team is desperate to get rid of (i.e. Francis, Martin, Ratliff). I don't know about you but that's not a player I want.
Frye is the only guy we can trade to get back in the lottery. That lottery pick will give us a chance to acquire a better alternative to play alongside Eddy Curry moving forward. It makes sense to me. I outlined above why I like Frye but still have severe doubts whether he's the right guy to pair up with Curry for the future.
Frye's an excellent jump shooter with great touch for a big guy. After that what else does he do well right now? Tell me!! Please! He plays with no killer instinct at all, doesn't rebound or box out well, has trouble creating his own shot off the dribble or going to the hole, plays bad defense and is not nearly the shot blocker we thought he was going to be. Right or wrong bro? Listen, I'll say it again, he's good and I like what he brings to the table. I think he'll get better, but I just don't know how much better. I mean that's an awful lot of things to work on and develop don't you think? We're talking about a seasoned four-year college player that came from a tremendous program and under a great college coach not an Eddy Curry project-type that came into the league right out of high school. To me, this makes his flaws even more alarming than Eddy's. So after considering the above comments you're telling me that pairing both Curry and Frye together along with all of their similiar deficiencies isn't a recipe for disaster? In my mind Williams, Carney and yes even Ronnie Brewer (good one bro, I forgot about him for a sec.) along with say drafting Hilton Armstrong from UConn with our Denver pick for interior defense would be a better mix than a Curry/Frye tandem moving forward.

Posted by BasketballJones:

Posted by rain:

"Just to be clear".. paragraphs would work real well here.

I agree. Paragraphs are a kindness to potential readers. When I see big blocks of text like that, I tend not to read the post.

Good for you. Don't read it. God bless. What do you want me to tell ya? I'm never going to be accused of never explaining exactly what on my mind, point by point, I tell you that. I would never make general statements about Frye's shortcomings and then not explain why I feel that way. That'd be irresponsible. If it throws you for a loop then just move on. Nobody's got a gun to your head.

With that said, I noticed you said that Brown doesn't like Marbury. It is totally clear that that's false. He's had NOTHING but praise for Marbury, and he's one of the few guys LB doesn't yell at on the floor, b/c Marbury is giving it his all on both sides.

And I agree about not trading Channing, just for the sake of getting another young guy. Yes, he has flaws, but these can be worked on. And he does play with a meanstreak a lot of the times. See the Dallas game. He's just in a major adjustment period, and he has even said a million times that he's already worn out. The guy needs to add some muscle to that thin frail to add some stamina.

lol - I think you guys mean 'space the paragraphs more'. There are paragraphs there, just not double-spaced.

Its too easy to assume those guys you want will pan out. Trade the devil you know for the devil you don't.

What if Isiah just got K-mart for penny to complete a trio of big men. Since Frye and Curry can't go 35min yet, there is plenty of minutes for either.

A 6-11 finese player with a shot like fryes is not that common.

A low finese player with lots of power is great, but with no polish makes then hard to keep on the floor.

It may be easier to teach Curry a few things than team a rookie a whole set of skils. Eddie is only a year older than Sheldon.

Posted by Allanfan20:

dude, it's not that hard to hit the enter button 2 times after you're done making a certain point and want to move on to another. It's called writing and it's stuff that should have been taught in elementary school. It's hard to paraphrase when there are no paragraphs. Get what I'm sayin' brotha'?

Please. This is embarrassing already. Enough of this nonsense. It's not about my writing style, your writing style, his writing style... Since it's quite apparent that I'm fully capable of constructing logical, complete sentences, let's just move on shall we - "brotha'" (come on, the elementary school comment was a bit much). OK then. Point taken about spacing out the paragraphs; I'll try to accommodate you next time, ok pal, although I'm not sure what you were talking about with regard to "paraphasing." Paraphrasing what exactly? They're my own thoughts and sentences!!! Whatever. Anyway... (hitting enter button twice now)

This is supposed to be about a bunch of passionate, long-suffering Knick fans bounching ideas off one another - unless I missed something. If you disagree, fine, we'll talk about it. But, if you guys don't want to read what I write, don't. No harm, no foul. No use in responding with a post that states you didn't read it. Don't waste your time. Besides, I'm confident the most knowledgable fans on this site will chime in with their opinions sooner or later.

And, btw, I was hardly saying just trade away Channing, "...just for the sake of getting another young guy." (see that's paraphrasing btw - I'm paraphrasing you) Where did you get that from??? After all I've written on the subject, you mean to tell me that you think that's where I'm coming from? You really do need to read more carefully than that man. Wow. I'm talking about getting the right mix of guys that complement each other. Look, Eddy's here to stay. They're not gonna make that big of a move to get him then trade him. So he and all of his shortcomings are here for the long haul. My point is that I don't think Frye, with his deficiences, is a good fit to play alongside Eddy big minutes every night moving forward into the future. (I got news for ya, I'm not the only one around here who feels that way) That's your 2 power players making the same exact mistakes. Both sub-par defenders, rebounders and shot blockers for guys that tall. That doesn't concern you moving forward? It scares the **** ouuta me! I have my doubts Curry and Frye will ever put up the kind of number we're all looking for. You're right about the Dallas game btw - I did like what I saw out of Channing in that game - he was still battling hard late in that one long after it was over. Also good point on Frye needing to put on more muscle and increase his stamina - that's painfully obvious. I really can't explain my position any better than I already have, but here goes:

Shelden Williams would be a better fit. He would serve as Eddy's enforcer much like Oak did for Pat all of those years. Nothing flashy. Just rebound the ball like a demon, try to block every shot that comes your way, defend the post (they don't call this guy 'the landlord' for nothing you know), the little things - basically everything Frye doesn't do. Williams has got much more potential that Charles Oakley ever had btw. Have you ever even seen the guy play Allanfan? And just in case you haven't noticed, the doorway to the basket is wide ****ing open on this team for opponents to come in there and do what ever they want to do. No resistance whatsoever. It would be different if the landlord was back there, trust me on that one.

Or, at this point, I'd take a chance with a guy like Carney to play with Curry out on the wing over Channing Frye. This guy's got 'star' written all over him and he'll fill a need at a critical position for years to come. Remember, Jalen's only here through the end of his short contract and David Lee is not a small forward. Now if we snagged Carney, I'd go after Armstrong for much needed interior defense and rebounding with our Denver pick. So now the lineup would be:
(1) Marbury
(2) Richardson/Crawford
(3) Carney
(4) Armstrong
(5) Curry

Not bad. Anyway, that's what I'd like to see. If not, then I'll root for my team no matter who the hell they put out there. Anyway, feel free to tell me why I'm wrong, specifically why Williams or Carney are not better alternatives than Frye.

>>We can deal Frye to move up, way up, in the draft.

and you wait another three years while the crapshoot rookies get their sea legs.

>>(Frye) plays with no killer instinct at all, doesn't rebound or box out well, has trouble creating his own shot off the dribble ...

hold UP

How many 6'11 forwards, other than KG, create their own shot off the dribble?

Then again Finestrg, I think you were on to something when you suggested staying the course with the 25 and under crew.

Marv - what you said

Besides, Lee and Frye are est friends.

Visualize an experienced Jackie Butler in two more years at only 22 years old.