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The Myth of Larry Brown Players
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misterearl
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2/19/2006  2:20 PM
What affords this Larry Brown the luxury of contributing to this sub-story in the press?

Is this popular agenda that forwards the idea of "Larry Brown players" simply another label for reshaping a franchise?

As we can agrre that changing the course of a ship requires time, the diversion of Larry Brown players does two things. It provides him (and possibly Isiah) grace time for another wave of transactions, inncluding their first draft together, and allows the young roster the benefit of a full year of working together for a marathon season.

Voila!.... All of a sudden the rookies are veterans

For the money Brown is being paid to coach the roster he inherited, for the moment, they are ALL his players.

Every single one of them

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Knight
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2/19/2006  2:21 PM
Posted by misterearl:

What affords this Larry Brown the luxury of contributing to this sub-story in the press?

Is this popular agenda that forwards the idea of "Larry Brown players" simply another label for reshaping a franchise?

As we can agrre that changing the course of a ship requires time, the diversion of Larry Brown players does two things. It provides him (and possibly Isiah) grace time for another wave of transactions, inncluding their first draft together, and allows the young roster the benefit of a full year of working together for a marathon season.

Voila!.... All of a sudden the rookies are veterans

For the money Brown is being paid to coach the roster he inherited, for the moment, they are ALL his players.

Every single one of them

If they are his players then stop complaining about who he chooses to play and not to play, they're his players not yours.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
misterearl
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2/19/2006  2:28 PM
>they're his players not yours.

Knight - why so defensive? I respectfully DIS-agree. Thay ARE OUR players. It just ain't our money.

Then again, I always visualized Qyntel as a Isiah Thomas type player. But now he's described as a Larry Brown player. Whatever that is. I dig the hell out of Qyntel and his potential.

Then again, neither Channing Frye or David Lee seem like an Isiah Thomas type player so what do I know?

Having said that Knight, the only player I can't understand the Larry Brown treatment of is David Lee.

Can you explain Lee's lack of minutes for blocks of games?
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NYKniCksFan87
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2/19/2006  2:30 PM
because larry is larry..has a big ego...and wont rest till he get his.
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
Knight
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2/19/2006  2:36 PM
Larry is being paid to coach a team, not to pander to fans by playing their favorite player. As soon as someone is not getting minutes it's assumed he is in Larry's doghouse and Larry doesn't like him and he's not a Larry Brown player--it's fans who create this stuff more than the coach. Listen to Lee's interview after the last game and tell me if you get the feeling that he's being mistreated because I don't at all. David Lee will be a borderline starter his whole career, he's not even Jeff Foster.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
misterearl
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2/19/2006  2:37 PM
NYKniCksFan87 - they ALL have big egos.

Just some are supported and praised for having it.

Others are demonized and criticized for having it

For example, if Isiah was quoted that he would trade his own moms if it made the team better, does that translate into he won't rest until he gets "his" as well?

Does Isiah's relentless pursuit of the unexpected, mean they are BOTH on the same page to build a winner by whatever means Dolan empowers them with?
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misterearl
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2/19/2006  2:43 PM
Knight - don't be silly. You expect Lee to really say I want to be playing more?

These cats receive extensive media training to memorize the "right" things to say. Jamal has his lines damn naer perfected. He just hasn't had an opportunity to use them since early in the season.

>>David Lee will be a borderline starter his whole career,

Knight - you can extrapolate David Lee's ENTIRE NBA career from just 4 months into his rookie season?

Who died and made you The Amazing Kreskin?
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SlimPack
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2/19/2006  2:44 PM
Posted by Knight:

David Lee will be a borderline starter his whole career, he's not even Jeff Foster.

than why did larry start david a bunch of games? and also david lee is better than jeff foster so far.
NYKniCksFan87
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2/19/2006  2:45 PM
yeab...i know what u mean...my biggest problem is does isiah have a vision or is he just making moves to make moves?

i know we're a younger team....but i dont understand why trade AD for rose..i know we got a pick but the pick can be from anywhere in the draft....

some moves puzzle me....i was an optimist but now im not sure whats going on

bottomline all the fans want is a competitive and well ran team....we havent had a winner here in years and its about time we gorw and develop one...this team has too much talent to be amongst the worst in the league
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
Knight
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2/19/2006  2:47 PM
Posted by misterearl:


>>David Lee will be a borderline starter his whole career,

Knight - you can extrapolate David Lee's ENTIRE NBA career from just 4 months into his rookie season?

Who died and made you The Amazing Kreskin?

Well let's see, he has great energy, can jump, pass okay, rebound okay, has no offensive game whatsoever, not a defensive stopper whatsoever, not strong enough to play power forward, not mobile enough to guard the 3, but other than that, sure he's going to be a perennial starting power forward in the league.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Knight
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2/19/2006  2:48 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by Knight:

David Lee will be a borderline starter his whole career, he's not even Jeff Foster.

than why did larry start david a bunch of games? and also david lee is better than jeff foster so far.

He is? How?
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
misterearl
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2/19/2006  2:58 PM
>>my biggest problem is does isiah have a vision or is he just making moves to make moves?

How can you play for a championship team and NOT have vision?

NYKniCksFan87 - Isiah Thomas is an advantage-seeking, manipulative, over-demanding, Napoleonic, evasive, driven, abrasive, unforgiving, highly-competitive and a relentless negotiator.

I'm cool with that.

The problem people have with Isiah is that he's unpredictible and does not telegraph his moves. I'm cool with that too. It's a chess match between millionaires FOR millionaires.

Despite the countless rumors, few of his deals have been predicted.

Have you seen any Steve Francis Knicks jerseys at the NBA Store yet?



Knight - which David Lee are you watching?



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NYKniCksFan87
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2/19/2006  3:03 PM
im cool wit isiah...dont get me wrong...but what is his plan...is he rebuilding or is he doing it on the fly as many of us think...i dont care how he gets it done...as long as a winner is built i'd be happy wit it
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
Knight
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2/19/2006  3:05 PM
^Don't get me wrong, I like David Lee, but he is what he is and that is a blue-collar guy who will get you some rebounds and garbage buckets but will never be what everyone wishes he would be: he'll never be a bruising rebounder or a great offensive player.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
NYKniCksFan87
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2/19/2006  3:11 PM
david lee is basically this years version of jerome williams which isnt a bad comparison at all
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
SlimPack
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2/19/2006  3:16 PM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by Knight:

David Lee will be a borderline starter his whole career, he's not even Jeff Foster.

than why did larry start david a bunch of games? and also david lee is better than jeff foster so far.

He is? How?
hmm... maybe he isnt better, but he's at the very least on the verge to being just as good.
it's kind of a hassle to do an exact comparison becuase foster played so little his rookie season, but so far david lee's points, and assists per game, and fg% are better than fosters where his sophmore season(the reason I used fosters sophmore season is becuase I didnt feel like accounting for the difference in mpg between fosters rookie season and david's rookie season) Also he is the best rebounder on this team per minute. also he has a very good jump shot, also he is pretty good in the post (although technically he's only posted up three or four times this season but he's made all of those attempts). Im not saying he'll be a future perrenial all star or anything but I do think you're underrating him.
SlimPack
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2/19/2006  3:20 PM
Posted by Knight:

^Don't get me wrong, I like David Lee, but he is what he is and that is a blue-collar guy who will get you some rebounds and garbage buckets but will never be what everyone wishes he would be: he'll never be a bruising rebounder or a great offensive player.

yeah I agree that he definetally wont be a great offensive player, if by great you mean guys like kobe, and dwayne wade, that is...

anyway I think the reason larry bench's lee, is becuase he is undependable. he had some great games, and some really crappy games. but optimistic people like me can just assume that he is that way becuase he his a rookie, and not becuase he is a future jamal crawford. anyway to address another issue. I think there probably is a such thing as a larry brown type of player(eric snow, kevin ollie etc...), but larry shouldnt need many of those types of players to win. also he needs non LB, yet talented, players to win as well. for example, I dont think rasheed was a Lb type player, but brown needed him to win the championship.



[Edited by - slimpack on 02-19-2006 3:23 PM]

[Edited by - slimpack on 02-19-2006 3:25 PM]
misterearl
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2/19/2006  3:54 PM
NYKniCksFan87 - im cool wit isiah...dont get me wrong...but what is his plan...is he rebuilding or is he doing it on the fly as many of us think

NYKniCksFan87 - only Zeke's hairdresser knows for sure.

In other words, whether it's "on the fly" (translation: trying to win some games AND transform the roster into one that can grow together for more than a few seasons) or "rebuilding" (trying to solve one position at a time) or simply trying to acquire better basketball players than thoses that were here two years ago -

the reality only Isiah knows what his "plan" is.

If he shares his plan, certainly his competition will try to take advantage of it by exploiting its weakness.

It's a high stakes NBA poker game, where no one shows their hand or expression. No one flinches and no one tells the press exactly what they are thinking. EVER. The press, in turn, is left to make reality out of rumor and storres where there is only imagination.

From the evidence of two years, Isiah's plan is to make the Knicks better via the draft (Frye, Lee, Ariza), trades (Curry, Jalen Rose, Marbury), and visionary pick-ups (Qyntel, Jackie, Larry Brown) from out of nowhere.

Sound like a plan to me



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misterearl
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2/19/2006  3:56 PM
SlimPack - what qualities define a Larry Brown player?

And if Sheed ain't a Larry Brown player, how can Frye be one?

I'm confused
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NYKniCksFan87
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2/19/2006  4:09 PM
sheed matured tho...he hasnt got into any trouble recently and he isnt refered to as Raweed Wallace anymore....
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
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