Posted by misterearl:

"... One step forward, two step backward... down inna Babylon"

Think of it this way Marv. if it took four years under Layden's (cough) stewardship to set the Knicks on a crash course of declining returns - with the draft of Sweetney as his only transaction worth modest applause - it will take Isiah Thomas, or ANY other executive for that matter, the same four years (at least) to correct the ship's course and see a marked improvement in the W/L column.

.500 record?

I'd be estatic if the post All-Star break record was .500 but with Larry Brown doing The Super Bowl Shuffle its a reach.

Next season or bust. And that's one year ahead of schedule.

Posted by djsunyc:
there is also one thing i didn't talk about and that's his relationship with marbury. that type of relationship is not a healthy one. not just in bball, but in every aspect of business. to me, this is also an important issue.

Posted by misterearl:

I'm witchoo - 2nd round of the playoffs in 07/08

Would you agree that until then, the press should occassionally take a longer range perspective on matters?

>b/c my plan would be to get WAY under the cap in the summer of 2007 (which would've been the case if we only made trades and/or signings that didn't go past the 06/07 season). i believe that if nyc had cap room, we could attract 90% of the superstars in the league.

djsunyc - you KNOW I would like nothing better than to join you again in Section 404, but if getting under the salary cap is such a benefit...

... then why haven't The Atlanta Hawks, who cleared the decks, cut payroll to a bare minimum AND play in an attractive market where a lot of NBAers have permanent residences,

(heck, even Bernard King lives here)

... done better?

Posted by bigbeast:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

Let's be fair.

Isiah's coup de la grandeur have not been compelling

If we consider how much cash and how many draft picks it cost to acquire Marbury who has not lead us on the court to wins and obviously has been a big time detrimant in the locker room, posibly hurting team chemistry[if there was any???] this trade has to be considered a massive failure. By the time the team is even close to good, marbury will be shot.

Crawford--his next big acquistion which was planned over a long period of time--quite honestly an over-rated talent with poor fundamentals, terrible inconsistencies, not toughness, no heart.

Mo Taylor--ultimately a poor decision because he is just a role player. You dont give up picks and add tremendous salary for role players.

Malik Rose--it netted us two picks, one of which is David Lee, so this trade will ultimately be a positive. Malik himself is a waste. If your leader isnt a big time player on the court--who cares?

Jerome James---ouch worse than weatherspoon or eisley

Curry--he can score, he can score in some games at a high %, sometimes he rebounds. In 5 years he shown little heart and toughness. We overpaid for his services and quite contrary to some people's beliefs--saying he is better than anyone in this draft and possibly next draft is insane. On top of it, no one wanted eddy, we bargained agaisnt ourselves.

q-rich--another 40mm$ long term for a player who quite frankly scks.


are we doing it again with jalen rose--who is past his prime?


No one teaches heart. You either have heart and toughness or you dont. Many players on this team are not warriors.

Comparing what Laydumb has done and Isiah really is not fair. Laydumb had the misfortune of Mcdyes 's knee blowing up--Isiah no such bad luck. The players he has brought in simply havent been good players.

he can hide behind the word rebuild and youth, but unless there is some kind of miracle--you will likely hear the sOS from him. He came into an impossible situation right:>)


Well, Isiah we have to be behind you, we have nothing else we can do. But don't BS us or yourself, you have done a pis poor job.

Posted by djsunyc:

that's new york. not just isiah but any public figure (let alone sports figure) will get their fair share at the faintest smell of blood. i don't feel bad for isiah, just like i didn't feel bad for any yankee manager over the past 20 years, or allan houston b/c of his contract, etc. it's the nature of the city and this is one aspect of it. isiah wasn't the first to go through this, nor will he be the last. he puts himself out there in the public eye so it will rain down harder on him.

with that said, the big question i have is, was there a plan in place from the get go?

did we get younger? yes.
did we get more athletic? yes.

if the plan was younger and athletic, then isiah has succeeded so far.

but with the acquisitions made, all signs pointed to make this team go uptempo, in the mold of the sonics last year with the 1/2/3 spots doing the majority of the scoring with the big guys down low doing the dirty work.

then he brings in lb, who is the antithesis of uptempo.

lb's system is based on ball movement and defense.

do we have guys that can move the ball around? yeah, i think we do. and i think it will look better over some time.

but do we have ANY guys of consequence that play ANY sort of defense?
has ANY player isiah has brought in here, from long term contracts, to 10 day contracts, a defensive player?

i think we all know the answer to those questions.

so with isiah, he has brought in alot of talented players. he brought in alot of flash players. and now he's hoping it all works out. i just find it troublesome that EVERYONE knows a championship caliber team is built on defense. and with isiah playing on some of the NASTIEST defensive teams ever, he brought in players that wouldn't survive a day in training camp with those pistons.

and it's not like these players came cheaply either. some of these guys cost us some picks and some of them have nice sized contracts. so they were handpicked by isiah.

so what is the plan?

i didn't even bring up our cap situation as it's clear that you either care about it or not, so it's a wasted argument.

work in progress is one thing but building a legitimate championship contender is another.

are we on our way to building a championship contender? the answer to that question is whether or not isiah deserves more time here.