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THIS is why we should have gotten the Rap's pick with little or no protection
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fishmike
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2/4/2006  7:48 AM
And not Denver's pick:
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm

We just set them up to have $20mm in cap space. Read Stein's article. They will be in incredible position. They will have a new GM. They have a good young frontcourt. They can sign Nene at center, resign James if they want or throw bigtime money at Jason Terry and Kareem Rush.

Once again we did a MONSTER favor for another franchise that no other team in the NBA was willing to do.

Some will look at this deal and say we got a good saavy veteran scorer and a pick for a guy that hasnt helped us all year anyway and was gone. Thats 100% true and I agree. Regardless this trade DOES benefit us. But have no doubt we overpaid AGAIN and should have taken their unprotected #1. At the worst we could have swaped the Spurs for their #1. Instead we get something in the 20s. I'm sorry but its weak.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Bonn1997
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2/4/2006  8:15 AM
20 mil in cap space? Their payroll will be $36 mil next year. What's the cap--mid 40s? They won't be able to sign a max contract player. That's assuming they let James walk. If they re-sign James for $5 mil, they'll probably have about $5 mil in cap space.
If I ran the Raptors, I'd rather have my own top 3 pick than $10 mil in cap space. It's a question of whether you'd rather add a Joe Johnson or a top 3 pick (at one fifth the annual cost).
I will say I wanted Pape Sow or Jose Calderon included. Without that, I'd give the trade about a B-. It was good but nothing special.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02-04-2006 08:16 AM]
tomverve
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2/4/2006  9:50 AM
isiah should have held out for bosh
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Knicksfan
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2/4/2006  10:52 AM
Yeah, like they were going to give us their unprotected #1 along with Rose, who's contract ends next season, for Davis. Again, this is the same discussion everyone had about giving the Bulls the #1 pick instead of giving them Lee. How do you know it was possible? We made a good deal.

The way Isiah was going after Jalen Rose, we are lucky it wasn't him giving the Raptors a pick (ala Mo T deal)...
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Killa4luv
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2/4/2006  10:54 AM
Posted by tomverve:

isiah should have held out for bosh

yeah, what a loser.
crzymdups
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2/4/2006  11:14 AM
Toronto never gets good free agents. The Denver pick has a good shot at being a lotto pick. This was a good trade. Why not wait to see how the Knicks look with Jalen before condemning it?

edit: also, from everything I've heard Toronto needs most of that space to lock up Bosh with a max offer. Nene is broken? Kareem Rush? Are you kidding me? Are they going to give him a max deal?

[Edited by - crzymdups on 02-04-2006 11:16 AM]
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crzymdups
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2/4/2006  11:17 AM
Why would Terry leave Dallas? You think Cuban is going to be outbid for his PG AGAIN? Most of the free agents out there will be locked up by their own teams once again. Sure, cap room helps Toronto make trades, but come on.
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TMS
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2/4/2006  11:38 AM
i think this trade was made more with an eye towards next year, so they can offer Bosh a max level contract to keep him in TOR before other teams get a shot at him... i doubt Isiah could have gotten TOR's unprotected pick in this one... that meeting he had w/Larry B & Dolan was probably to discuss the final offer he received from TOR, & whether or not they believed pulling the trigger on it was the best deal for the Knicks... that's just what i happen to believe... i don't see TOR giving up their unprotected top 5 pick for cap savings.

[Edited by - TMS on 02-04-2006 11:39 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
crzymdups
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2/4/2006  11:44 AM
One X factor in this trade: before the game last night, Mike James and Jalen Rose embraced and James definitely said something like "I have to wait until the summer." What if Rose's pressence gets us Mike James for the MLE over the summer? James is a New Yorker, seems to have a good relationship with Jalen, said he liked Larry Brown earlier this season.

Unless Toronto overpays him by a lot to stay in Toronto, I can definitely see him coming to New York this summer. If the Jalen trade gives him another reason to come here, all the better.
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Knight
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2/4/2006  11:45 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

One X factor in this trade: before the game last night, Mike James and Jalen Rose embraced and James definitely said something like "I have to wait until the summer." What if Rose's pressence gets us Mike James for the MLE over the summer? James is a New Yorker, seems to have a good relationship with Jalen, said he liked Larry Brown earlier this season.

Unless Toronto overpays him by a lot to stay in Toronto, I can definitely see him coming to New York this summer. If the Jalen trade gives him another reason to come here, all the better.

Is he coming as a backup to Marbury?
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crzymdups
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2/4/2006  11:47 AM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by crzymdups:

One X factor in this trade: before the game last night, Mike James and Jalen Rose embraced and James definitely said something like "I have to wait until the summer." What if Rose's pressence gets us Mike James for the MLE over the summer? James is a New Yorker, seems to have a good relationship with Jalen, said he liked Larry Brown earlier this season.

Unless Toronto overpays him by a lot to stay in Toronto, I can definitely see him coming to New York this summer. If the Jalen trade gives him another reason to come here, all the better.

Is he coming as a backup to Marbury?

I would start James and Marbury unless we can get a real SG. James is big and a tough defender.
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TMS
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2/4/2006  11:48 AM
maybe a sign & trade of Crawford for Mike James could work.
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fishmike
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2/4/2006  11:56 AM
Tor is on the books for about $24mm next year. Wake up people. We just did another NBA team a monster favor.

This would be a better trade if our roster wasnt already bloated with his other cap fodder trades in Q, Mo T, JJ, Malik, etc

This is why ESPN and everyone else jokes that so long as Isiah is with the Knick there's always *someplace* you can dump your bad contracts.

Hey.. I hope we get luck in the draft and in 2-3 years these guys really do become great players.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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2/4/2006  11:57 AM
Why does Hoopshype say $36 million?
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fishmike
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2/4/2006  11:58 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Yeah, like they were going to give us their unprotected #1 along with Rose, who's contract ends next season, for Davis. Again, this is the same discussion everyone had about giving the Bulls the #1 pick instead of giving them Lee. How do you know it was possible? We made a good deal.

The way Isiah was going after Jalen Rose, we are lucky it wasn't him giving the Raptors a pick (ala Mo T deal)...
we did get a good deal. Toronto got a better deal. Much better
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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2/4/2006  11:59 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

Why does Hoopshype say $36 million?
They count all the options. Even if Eric Williams and Alvin Williams take theirs they can still sign a max FA or trade from someone with a max deal (more likely)

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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2/4/2006  11:59 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Knicksfan:

Yeah, like they were going to give us their unprotected #1 along with Rose, who's contract ends next season, for Davis. Again, this is the same discussion everyone had about giving the Bulls the #1 pick instead of giving them Lee. How do you know it was possible? We made a good deal.

The way Isiah was going after Jalen Rose, we are lucky it wasn't him giving the Raptors a pick (ala Mo T deal)...
we did get a good deal. Toronto got a better deal. Much better

Fish, what free agents has Toronto ever signed? Rafer Alston? I'm serious. No one in the NBA wants to play there, except maybe Jamaal Magloire.
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crzymdups
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2/4/2006  12:01 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

Why does Hoopshype say $36 million?
They count all the options. Even if Eric Williams and Alvin Williams take theirs they can still sign a max FA or trade from someone with a max deal (more likely)

Alvin Williams is never going to play again, I'm pretty sure he'll take his option to be paid $6 million to do nothing. Eric Williams might leave because NO ONE wants to play in Toronto. I'm serious. Who are they going to get? They going to snag Ben Wallace from the Pistons? Peja? No one is going there.
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TMS
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2/4/2006  12:02 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Knicksfan:

Yeah, like they were going to give us their unprotected #1 along with Rose, who's contract ends next season, for Davis. Again, this is the same discussion everyone had about giving the Bulls the #1 pick instead of giving them Lee. How do you know it was possible? We made a good deal.

The way Isiah was going after Jalen Rose, we are lucky it wasn't him giving the Raptors a pick (ala Mo T deal)...
we did get a good deal. Toronto got a better deal. Much better

Fish, what free agents has Toronto ever signed? Rafer Alston? I'm serious. No one in the NBA wants to play there, except maybe Jamaal Magloire.


exactly... the deal wasn't to sign a max FA... the deal was made in order to get the cap flexibility to try & hold onto their own franchise star... but you can't expect them to give up their top 5 lottery pick just to get cap savings... they'd want to keep that pick if anything so they have an insurance policy in case Bosh bolts for greener pastures in a couple years... & if not, they have a nice complementary piece to motivate Bosh to stick around for the longterm... they weren't giving up that pick.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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2/4/2006  12:04 PM
FYI the cap is just under $50mm
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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THIS is why we should have gotten the Rap's pick with little or no protection
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