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if LB takes over as GM, what types of moves can you see him making?
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TMS
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2/1/2006  12:30 PM
- Marbury & Butler to TOR for Jalen Rose, Mike James & protected 1st rd. pick

- Crawford to CLE for Eric Snow, '06 1st rd. pick & future 2nd rd. pick

- Penny, Malik, Ariza & SA's 1st rd. pick to POR for Miles, Ratliff & Patterson


C - Curry / Ratliff
PF - AD / Frye / Lee
SF - Miles / Woods / Patterson
SG - Rose / Nate
PG - James / Snow
IR - Mo T / JJ / Q Rich

would you rather have this team, or the one we currently have under Isiah? does this team above have any shot of making the playoffs this year, or next? does it fit LB's idealogy?

[Edited by - TMS on 02-01-2006 12:37 PM]
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fishmike
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2/1/2006  12:46 PM
I think he's keeping MArbury. Watch them on TV.. they have their own click. Marbury plays hard, gets good shots and doesnt TO the ball.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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2/1/2006  12:53 PM
I can understand that Larry would want Rose and James, but not at the expense of Marbury. I doubt he wants to touch a low IQ player like Miles. And if the Knicks get James, they aren't getting Snow. I honestly don't particularly want Brown as the GM. I see him as a great coach, but also someone who is overly partial to vets. Who knows though. He did choose Q Woods.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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2/1/2006  12:55 PM
don't you think LB would prefer to have a PG tandem of James & Snow running his team though? i think that's the type of team he'd want... some hard nosed tough players who play D in AD, Ratliff, Patterson, Nate, James, Lee & Snow who actually have some heart to go along w/their talent...& there is still a good amount of youth & 2 1st rd. picks on that team for LB to use to build for the future.

anyway, do you think it's an improvement or no?

[Edited by - TMS on 02-01-2006 12:57 PM]
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Allanfan20
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2/1/2006  1:44 PM
It's an improvement in toughness and defense but a major downgrade in talent and athleticism. You need both. Rose is the only consistent shooter on that team and he's on a severe downfall, plus it's the final year of his deal. Ratliff sucks, but is a good shotblocker(But not that good at anything else) patterson has some toughness. Overall, I would say it's a downgrade of the thug Knicks, which didn't and wont win a championship. I just wouldn't see the point. You need talent on a basketball team overall.

I would say that you're right that we might HAVE to trade either Marbury or Crawford, but unless you want to make Crawford that 6th man. If that's the case, then the Knicks have to trade one of their young guys for a young but high IQ 2. Sounds tough, but I am sure it's doable. (Amazing how much the fans miss Allan, after hating him for so much. So blimded by their hate, that they didn't realize he was a good bball player.) Can't say what who I want to go for, b/c I don't know what's possible. I am not interested in Rose though, for the long term. Maybe trade for a pick and hope Reddick slips down.

Either way, i like your ideas of going after James and Patterson, that's only if we have a true plan for marbury or crawford though. I'd like to keep one of the 2 though. Not interested in Miles.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
djsunyc
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2/1/2006  2:50 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I think he's keeping MArbury. Watch them on TV.. they have their own click. Marbury plays hard, gets good shots and doesnt TO the ball.

i'm of the belief it's the opposite (surprise surprise). i think there's a growing sentiment within the organization that they should distance themselves from steph asap. i'm pretty sure that once isiah is gone (which is probably what's going to happen), then steph will be gone almost immediately. his name being brought up in the case is not helping either. they look at other team's max players and see them leading their teams while ours doesn't. i think they've given up hope for steph as the "star" player here and are ready to embrace the rebuild by going all young.

i made a ton of posts earlier about steph the player or steph the pg in this system...well forget all that. this has nothing to do with him as the player but where the team is philosophically. i think the organization sees the marbury era as a failure and are somewhat turning against isiah for what's going on off the court as well (in terms of PR).

steph is our best player.
but right now, he's not the best player for us.

lb is not going anywhere. the isiah/marbury relationship has been at the forefront from the beginning. chances are, they came in together, and they'll be leaving together.

it sucks that it may turn out that way but that's how it goes sometimes. and during all this mess, we are the ones that suffer.

of course, this post can be 100% wrong and the next thing you know, we have a lineup of steph, ray allen, ruben patterson, zach randolph, and eddy curry but i don't think that's what's going to happen...

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-01-2006 2:52 PM]
TMS
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2/2/2006  10:06 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/387732p-329005c.html
According to a source, the players are convinced that Brown is looking to move most of them and would do just that if given the power.

there's no doubt in my mind that if LB were to take over, Marbury's time in NY would be limited.
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misterearl
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2/2/2006  12:22 PM
Doesn't Larry have enough health concerns to avoid the stress and added responsibility that comes with President of Baskteball Operatioins AND those of Head Coach?

Kenny Smith, come on down!
once a knick always a knick
TMS
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2/2/2006  12:32 PM
Kenny Smith??? what qualifications does he have to take over the team? at least LB's put together a team that reached the Finals before... & deep down inside, i think that's what he wants here in NY... he wants full control over this team to bring the type of players he thinks will succeed in his system... IT built this team based on 1 premise only - to get younger & more athletic - but he forgot to consider other huge factors in what determines a winning team - work ethic, basketball IQ, & how the players mix & complement one another to create a nicely balanced squad... some of the moves he's made have come back to bite him in the butt, though his reasoning can be understood in some cases... whether that's because LB wasn't a good fit for these players, or these players just aren't the type of players who will become winners in this league, no one can say for sure... but if there's anyone who should be given the reigns to fix Isiah's mess, it's him imho.
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arkrud
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2/2/2006  10:05 PM
Just wached RANGERS bitting Ilenders. Avesom!!!! 2 in the Conference, playing a world class game!!!
And who was expecting this before the lockout... Nobody.
I hope we will see different Knicks next year - but they need clean up the house big time.
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Killa4luv
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2/2/2006  10:19 PM
if LB takes over as GM, what types of moves can you see him making?

bad ones.
misterearl
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2/2/2006  10:33 PM
>IT built this team based on 1 premise only - to get younger & more athletic - but he forgot to consider other huge factors in what determines a winning team - work ethic, basketball IQ, & how the players mix & complement one another to create a nicely balanced squad.

TNS - you don't like the basketball IQs of David Lee, Qyntel Woods, Channing Frye, Malik Rose or Antonio Davis?

So, Isiah has played on championship teams since college and professionally, he's built and maintained long-standing relationships around the league among some of the most respected people like Chuck Daly, Joe Dumars, Bill Laimbeer, Magic Johnson, Mark Aguirre, Larry Brown, Charles Barkley and Kelly Tripucka - but in your opinion he's forgotten overnight what determines a winning team?


Give it a rest arreddy, this new Knicks squad has been together for three months and their floor general has a serious injury that he's tried courageously to play through. This is a roster composed of kids learning their way around the league for the first time who have never played more than 40 games in a season.

Don't be a crybaby

once a knick always a knick
BRIGGS
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2/3/2006  12:17 AM
[quote]
Posted by misterearl:

>IT built this team based on 1 premise only - to get younger & more athletic - but he forgot to consider other huge factors in what determines a winning team - work ethic, basketball IQ, & how the players mix & complement one another to create a nicely balanced squad.

TNS - you don't like the basketball IQs of David Lee, Qyntel Woods, Channing Frye, Malik Rose or Antonio Davis?

So, Isiah has played on championship teams since college and professionally, he's built and maintained long-standing relationships around the league among some of the most respected people like Chuck Daly, Joe Dumars, Bill Laimbeer, Magic Johnson, Mark Aguirre, Larry Brown, Charles Barkley and Kelly Tripucka - but in your opinion he's forgotten overnight what determines a winning team?


Give it a rest arreddy, this new Knicks squad has been together for three months and their floor general has a serious injury that he's tried courageously to play through. This is a roster composed of kids learning their way around the league for the first time who have never played more than 40 games in a season.

Don't be a crybaby


thats a BS excuse.

the knicks are not that young

line up

C-Curry 23
F Davis 37
F Woods 25
G Q-rich 26 in 2 months
G Marbury 29
C Taylor 29
F Frye 22
F Lee 22
G Crawford 26 in 1 month
how is this young? most of these guys are prime years. please stop with the BS
RIP Crushalot😞
bobs3304
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2/3/2006  12:29 AM
Sorry, but Isiah and MJ are prime examples of 2 guys that you'd THINK would be good front office guys, but who ended up sucking ACE.


Isiah didn't have a plan. He had ideas. Like getting younger and more athletic.


SINCE WHEN DOES BEING ATHLETIC AND YOUNG HELP YOU WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS?


Playing hard, playing together, playing smart --- THAT WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.


Let's face it --- Isiah's a mook.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
misterearl
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2/3/2006  8:20 AM
Briggs - yes, Isiah is a mook AND the Devil Himself. But just for correction purposes please check the facts before you randomely diss me again. Thank You.

C-Curry 23 - NOT in prime years
F Davis 37 - past prime years
F Woods 24 - NOT in prime years
G Q-rich 26 in 2 months - prime years
G Marbury 29 - okayfine
C Taylor 29 - okayfine
F Frye 22 - a baby, nowhere close to prime years
F Lee 22 - a baby, see above
G Crawford 26 in 1 month - NOT in prime years
Nate - NOT in prime years
Ariza - NOT in prime years
Jackie Butler - NOT in prime years

Perhaps if you weren't so blinded by your negative agenda you could use your fingers to count.

Do the math, brainiac

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-03-2006 08:20 AM]
once a knick always a knick
BRIGGS
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2/3/2006  8:54 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Briggs - yes, Isiah is a mook AND the Devil Himself. But just for correction purposes please check the facts before you randomely diss me again. Thank You.

C-Curry 23 - NOT in prime years
F Davis 37 - past prime years
F Woods 24 - NOT in prime years
G Q-rich 26 in 2 months - prime years
G Marbury 29 - okayfine
C Taylor 29 - okayfine
F Frye 22 - a baby, nowhere close to prime years
F Lee 22 - a baby, see above
G Crawford 26 in 1 month - NOT in prime years
Nate - NOT in prime years
Ariza - NOT in prime years
Jackie Butler - NOT in prime years

Perhaps if you weren't so blinded by your negative agenda you could use your fingers to count.

Do the math, brainiac

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-03-2006 08:20 AM]

22 through 29 is statistical athletic prime years. Go look at any great player, they were already great at 22--25-26 if you are not great at 25-26, than its highly unlikely likely you will ever be great. Q Woods is an odd example of a guy who could be a great basketball player who is a young 25 because he has had little PT. Cawford and Q are what they are and there will be no change in their games. Tell me oh wise one, tell me the ages of the Pheonix Sun 60 win team from last year?--tell me the ages, they were YOUNGER than the Knicks are now.

Im SURE you know Isiah's best years statistcially were 21-25. 22 is NO baby in this league. We remember Magic using the skyhook in the championship game at 20 years old when he dropped 40? How old is Dwayne Wade? Amare Stoudemire? How about Chris Kaman?Ben Gordon 21 years old 6th man of year. Of course--Guys can improve from 22, but statistcally GREAT players were already great at that age. But does intergrating a couple of 22 year old 4 year CB basketball players on the team make it an excuse to play horrible basketball? NO! Almost every team intergates 1-2 young players every year--guys like devin Harris, Tony Parker Beno Udrith etc...



By the way, I do not have a negative agenda and I was an Isiah supporter until recently. Im just a long term fan who see's disaster and I think we made a HUGE HUGE mistake not taking Mr Bynum and giving away our picks.
the ship be sinkin.
RIP Crushalot😞
Nalod
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2/3/2006  8:56 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Briggs - yes, Isiah is a mook AND the Devil Himself. But just for correction purposes please check the facts before you randomely diss me again. Thank You.

C-Curry 23 - NOT in prime years
F Davis 37 - past prime years
F Woods 24 - NOT in prime years
G Q-rich 26 in 2 months - prime years
G Marbury 29 - okayfine
C Taylor 29 - okayfine
F Frye 22 - a baby, nowhere close to prime years
F Lee 22 - a baby, see above
G Crawford 26 in 1 month - NOT in prime years
Nate - NOT in prime years
Ariza - NOT in prime years
Jackie Butler - NOT in prime years

Perhaps if you weren't so blinded by your negative agenda you could use your fingers to count.

Do the math, brainiac

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-03-2006 08:20 AM]

Bottom line is, we have 5 more wins thus far we would not be as depressed. Losing streaks suck!

This team needs time and some tweeks.

An attitude adjustment would help also. All of Larrys Ex players that have succeeded love him and loved playing for him. Maybe not at the time, but the mature professional appreciates his coaching. The immature player will fight it.
misterearl
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2/3/2006  9:50 AM
Briggs - you so crazy.

You can point to all the players on other teams you want. Please, noock yourself out - get out the NBA Almanac while you're at it.

Point is, the majority of Knicks players are works-in-progress. Their games have NOT matured to the point you can say they are all they can be. Even Mo Taylor is a different player than he showed in Houston. I refuse to accept that our people cannot learn, change and grow.

Plain and simple, I can't get with your negative defeatist program. I would rather have some caramel popcorn and watch the kids develop as a team under Larry Brown for more than three months.

But that's just me.
once a knick always a knick
TMS
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2/3/2006  10:10 AM
Posted by misterearl:

>IT built this team based on 1 premise only - to get younger & more athletic - but he forgot to consider other huge factors in what determines a winning team - work ethic, basketball IQ, & how the players mix & complement one another to create a nicely balanced squad.

TNS - you don't like the basketball IQs of David Lee, Qyntel Woods, Channing Frye, Malik Rose or Antonio Davis?

So, Isiah has played on championship teams since college and professionally, he's built and maintained long-standing relationships around the league among some of the most respected people like Chuck Daly, Joe Dumars, Bill Laimbeer, Magic Johnson, Mark Aguirre, Larry Brown, Charles Barkley and Kelly Tripucka - but in your opinion he's forgotten overnight what determines a winning team?


Give it a rest arreddy, this new Knicks squad has been together for three months and their floor general has a serious injury that he's tried courageously to play through. This is a roster composed of kids learning their way around the league for the first time who have never played more than 40 games in a season.

Don't be a crybaby

just making some honest assessments of this team & creating a hypothetical question to spur a discussion... didn't realize that qualified me as a crybaby... should i clear my topics with you before i post next time?

just to address your comments:
TNS - you don't like the basketball IQs of David Lee, Qyntel Woods, Channing Frye, Malik Rose or Antonio Davis?

David Lee & Channing Frye have very good basketball IQ's, & i have faith that both of them will be very good players in this league... Q Woods? what makes him an example of a player w/good basketball IQ? a few good statlines in losing games doesn't make you a smart ballplayer... Malik Rose is dead weight on this team & i would unload him for any expiring contract i could get... AD is a nice veteran & i've always said he was the type of player i'd want to bring on this team (anyone who's posted w/me for the past 4 years can tell you that)... however, the fact is he's old & way past his prime.
So, Isiah has played on championship teams since college and professionally, he's built and maintained long-standing relationships around the league among some of the most respected people like Chuck Daly, Joe Dumars, Bill Laimbeer, Magic Johnson, Mark Aguirre, Larry Brown, Charles Barkley and Kelly Tripucka - but in your opinion he's forgotten overnight what determines a winning team?

what does being a winner during one's playing days have anything to do w/qualifying you to be a great GM of a winning organization? just what has Isiah Thomas proven as a basketball executive that would lead you to believe that he is able to put together a winning team as a GM? just because he's a HOF player doesn't mean he knows jack about running an NBA franchise... everyone can't be like Joe Dumars or Jerry West unfortunately my friend... hey, how about we give Michael Jordan a chance to run this team? i mean, he's a proven winner too, isn't he? *sarcasm*
Give it a rest arreddy, this new Knicks squad has been together for three months and their floor general has a serious injury that he's tried courageously to play through. This is a roster composed of kids learning their way around the league for the first time who have never played more than 40 games in a season.

you're completely missing the point... what upsets me about this current collection of players is NOT the fact that they're losing games... it's HOW they're losing them, & it's the WAY they're playing that irks me... a collection of young kids should be hungry & have some moxy, but this team is looking as meek & downtrodden as any collection of over the hill veterans i've seen here for the past 5 years... does that not bother you in the very least? if only everyone could see life through those rose colored glasses of yours, but most reasonable fans at some point have to be able to see some improvement to continue to have faith... this team is regressing right now & it's not a pretty sight.

[Edited by - TMS on 02-03-2006 10:11 AM]
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MS
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2/3/2006  10:38 AM
I would like to see Patterson and Ratliff on the team because they at least play a little defense, Isiah and Dolan have ****ed this organization right off the map......

Frankly the lack of IQ and commitment to winning on this team is scary, Q, Curry , Crawford, Ariza, James.....Channing is a hard worker and is going to be a good player but he doesn't know how to guard the perimeter which is something that you should know how to do if you have a high IQ, he constantly shifts to the block leaving his man open for wide open three's....You can tell a lot of these player don't really study game film and learn player tendencies.... Nate Rob doesn;t have a very high basketball IQ either...... So you are working with Rose who doesn't play, Lee who isn't really in the rotation and a guy past his prime.....not really a recipe for winning

This game isn't that hard if your willing to outwork your man......what did oakley have that was so special not a thing but he brought it every night like a lot of players that normally wouldn't get a chance to play, Ben Wallace does the same thing, our players are lazy and have no discipline, that is the problem with most of these gang bangers that turn off people....the don't care, go through the motions and don't come into camp in game shape.....you can't win with players like this....

Larry has been probably one of the worst coaches in the entire NBA this year with his 26 different starting rotations, calling out people in the media, driving players confidence and sanitity in the ground and losing games we should win....if he was just a regular guy right now he would be fired, but if these kids don't realize he can teach them how to play the game in the long run we just have no chance, you don't get blown out consistently if you care.....

Steph is a top five pg curry is a top 10 center, larry is supposed to be a top 3 coach, and frye is a top 3 rookie, that shouldn't be 13 wins especially when you have a couple of solid veterans that can give you some minutes....
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