I gotta ask....you think this is it for this team? Should they start clearing house now starting with Zeke and just trading guys off for whatever picks young guys they can get? Is it just growing pains? Is this team a case of gotta hit rock bottom and scratch and claw your way out to build character?

What's your take?

Give it more time. What good can it do to blow up the team half way through the season?

But those Larry Brown teams had strong willed hard working L-E-A-D-E-R-S as their best players.....we don't have that

Its time to put this version of the Knicks out of its misery and do a TRUE rebuild. No trying to make the playoffs on the fly. No grabbing over the hill vets. No splashy signings and coach hirings. No grabbing of the back pages. REBUILD. FOR REAL.

> REBUILD. FOR REAL.

LBeast - rebuild? REBUILD? You can't handle a rebuild.



[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-01-2006 06:00 AM]

Posted by BRIGGS:
Hey mistearl--this isnt a rebuild, it was/IS an incoherent hatched job by Isiah Thomas who put together players that were castoffs from other teams. In my 30 years as a Knick fan --this is THE worst team off all time and I was at the garden in the early 80s late 70s. This is the worst management job in the history of professional sports. A 125 mm $ payroll and we dont even play at a level of a lottery team--we are sub lottery. We should be called the NY Queens because our team is made up of girls who quit. They have no heart, no emotion and they are an embarassment to every NYer. Rebuilding a team is one thing, watching multi-million dollar players give 70% and get blown out game after game is another. Its an EXCUSE to say this team is rebuilding--its a lie. No one in their right MIND would spend 10mm$ on a coach to win 20 games. This business model has the brains of a schmuck behind it, but hey look at the CBA.

Worse--in terms of production-- the knicks have REGRESSED--they have become much worse even though they have been together 40+ games. If you play with no heart now, you never will--that is something you are born with. When you have a team made up of 90% girlie-men what can you expect--they are wussies with a capital W. EVERY fan knows it and every fan knows that Isiah Thomas is a BSing piece of crap who has FAILED at EVERYTHING he has done post playing days. They know he is a self-serving used car salesman who will go down as the worst manager in team sport history. He has NO clue what he is doing despite having a competetive edge on every team $$$ wise. You seem to know isiah, please thank him for destroying OUR team and if he had ANY guts, he would do the right thing and QUIT--get the h ell out of Dodge. Go slink back to the hole you came from.

have a good day

Earl is out of excuses. Its like eating POW food and convincing yourself its not that bad.

Posted by Marv:

But Briggs, seriously you were all over this team this off-season. You were starting threasds - "We're a bonfide contender from the east." "We have a real inside power team now." All this stuff. OK, Isiah made the call back then, he put together a team, he got them a coach - you liked it. You called it a good job. Well, what we're seeing now is obviously an abomination. But how can you praise Isiah so highly for the judgments he made in putting this team together and then bury him for those same judgments when they don't work out?

That's a great point. I didn't want to bring it up because I knew it would be ignored coming from me. You're correct that with the exception of a few posters almost everyone gave Isiah the highest praise imaginable 4 months ago for the same moves they're killing him for making now.

Posted by misterearl:

> REBUILD. FOR REAL.

LBeast - rebuild? REBUILD? You can't handle a rebuild.



[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-01-2006 06:00 AM]

I'm a season ticket holder. I can handle rebuild. I CANT handle a team that wont show up. How is rebuilding worse than THIS? I'd rather have a young team on the rise at 14-29, than seeing Malik Rose, Taylor and Davis taking PT from our rookies and STILL going 14-29.

>In my 30 years as a Knick fan --this is THE worst team off all time and I was at the garden in the early 80s late 70s

Briggs - We're all committed Knicks fans.

Or are we fans that need to be committed?

In my humble opinion, this is a much-berated and frustrated young team that everyone must bear major responsibility for. All levels of leadership, including the head coach and his staff, because there is something fundamental missing in their enthusiasm for the game.

I watched it up close in Atlanta as players seemed like they were attending a funeral. They showed no joy at any moment, even when David lee went baseline, they rarely communicated or congratulated each other on the floor. I sat five rows back on the baseline and the only player who talked on defense was Mailk Rose and we KNOW he can't make an outside shot if he was in front of a firing squad.

There is a heavy fog over this roster and no one really knows, outside of the players., how to MAKE it go away.

Yes. There is something that must be fixed.

I'm simply not certain what is needed is what some commonly refer to as a rebuild. Whatever that is defined as. Isiah Thomas rebuilt the roster. Looking at transactioins in retrospect is an exercise that anyone can do. You want to impress someone, go MAKE a deal that makes a team better in one easy step.

Is it perfect? Evidently, far from it. But it is not all is garbage fit to be instantly discarded.

Does the exorcism of the devil himself, Isiah Thomas, rebuild the shot-to-hell player confidence or make them better defenders?

The painful results, just three months into the first season of Larry Brown, bear closer anaylsis than simply running to real GM for another fantasy deal. Maybe easing the press off their collective backs would be a nice start. Who knows? Maybe they simply need to grow up faster, take control of their singular motivation, get in more fights and be men.

Having a healthy and inspired Marbury with double digit assists would be nice. Having Quinton Richardson make a shot would be even better. And YES I STILL like what I see in Qyntel.

Maybe they just need to be left alone. Practice,, if it is held today, should reveal some interesting conversation.

I don't know. But if the Rangers can get better - the Knicks can - and will - get better.

(Just for the record, I attended the last game at the old Madison Square Garden - Knicks v 76ers - and watched Junpin' Johnny Green against Wilt Chamberlain and Guy Rodgers from the upper deck when they played for the San Francisco Warriors.)

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-01-2006 09:22 AM]

Posted by misterearl:

(Just for the record, I attended the last game at the old Madison Square Garden - Knicks v 76ers - and watched Junpin' Johnny Green against Wilt Chamberlain and Guy Rodgers from the upper deck when they played for the San Francisco Warriors.)

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-01-2006 09:22 AM]

You old fart!

Guy Rodgers was great, but Wilt's 76er and Laker teams were better. Remember the Warriors' PF though, the burly mustachioed player-poet Tom Meschery? Remember how cool that guy was? Dude was a bohemian hippie-player before Phil Jackson or Bill Walton. And was publishing poetry while he was playing!

>You old fart!

Marv - I don't think so. My old lady is a "fine-as-wine" 36 years old and not complaining, so go put that in your laptop computer and do the math as you salivate over the Jessica Alba thread. My wish is that you will be so fortunate when you reach my age. Life am good.

Just remember, "you don't get to be old bein' no fool."

arkrud - Larry is one of the few coaches who could get away with such a strategy and Isiah understands that. Imagine Don Chaney (or Lenny Wilkens for that matter) with a revolving-door philosophy of starting lineups.

You think the natives are restless now?

There would be a full-scale military coup.