the four facets of being a GM are as follows:

1. trading
2. free agency
3. drafting
4. salary cap

how would you grade isiah?

1. trading: C

many trades have been made. many many trades. they have yet to yield tangible results (i.e. wins). some of the trades have yielded some nice young players. some of the trades have yielded old players that can't really help us win. some of the trades have involved giving up picks and taking back tremendous salary. i think isiah has overpaid in most of his deals and is kind of impatient during the negotiating process. but he did inherit a bad roster so he did start in a position of weakness. bottom line is that a ton of money has been spent via trades and we're still not winning but a young foundation is in place to build from.

2. free agency: D-

vin baker and jerome james would guarantee F----- but finding guys like butler and q2 also require some sort of skill but the negatives FAR outweigh the positives.

3. drafting: A

isiah has had 4 picks and they yielded trevor ariza, channing frye, nate robinson, and david lee. makes you wonder why he would ever consider moving picks in his deals as this is obviously his forte.

4. salary cap: F---

i don't think this needs any explanation.

so we're looking at C, D-, A, and an F---. if i came home with a report card like that i would get my ass kicked. if you think of isiah as a child, then you have to give him some time. but isiah has been an executive before so he's more like a college student in the GM world. right now, he probably should lose his scholarship (i.e. no more big money trades) and is on academic probation (if this continues, your boy marbury will get dumped).

trading:
C+
I think most of the trades have looked good when made. The Mo Taylor trade excepting. There's always risk and so far the MT trade and QRich trade haven't really produced dividends. The CUrry and Steph trades have helped though.

free agency:
C
like djsunyc said QWoods, Butler are high points. JJ, VB are obviously not. All in all we really haven't gained much w/ our signings. Ike missed a big opporotunity to at least attempt to sign G.Wallace.

Drafting
A. I don't think his picks can really be disputed at this point.

Salary cap: C+
Why this is one of any fan's top 4 attributes puzzles me. If you are over a penny it's the functional equivalent of being over 50 million. Isiah took a bad cap and made it worse. But that was the only way to turn an old overpaid team into a young overpaid team.

Posted by djsunyc:

the four facets of being a GM are as follows:

Salary cap: C+
Why this is one of any fan's top 4 attributes puzzles me. If you are over a penny it's the functional equivalent of being over 50 million. Isiah took a bad cap and made it worse. But that was the only way to turn an old overpaid team into a young overpaid team.

1. trading
2. free agency
3. drafting
4. salary cap

how would you grade isiah?

1. trading: C

many trades have been made. many many trades. they have yet to yield tangible results (i.e. wins). some of the trades have yielded some nice young players. some of the trades have yielded old players that can't really help us win. some of the trades have involved giving up picks and taking back tremendous salary. i think isiah has overpaid in most of his deals and is kind of impatient during the negotiating process. but he did inherit a bad roster so he did start in a position of weakness. bottom line is that a ton of money has been spent via trades and we're still not winning but a young foundation is in place to build from.

2. free agency: D-

vin baker and jerome james would guarantee F----- but finding guys like butler and q2 also require some sort of skill but the negatives FAR outweigh the positives.

3. drafting: A

isiah has had 4 picks and they yielded trevor ariza, channing frye, nate robinson, and david lee. makes you wonder why he would ever consider moving picks in his deals as this is obviously his forte.

4. salary cap: F---

i don't think this needs any explanation.

so we're looking at C, D-, A, and an F---. if i came home with a report card like that i would get my ass kicked. if you think of isiah as a child, then you have to give him some time. but isiah has been an executive before so he's more like a college student in the GM world. right now, he probably should lose his scholarship (i.e. no more big money trades) and is on academic probation (if this continues, your boy marbury will get dumped).

[Edited by - nykshaknbake on 01-28-2006 11:28 AM]

trades: B
would be higher if Q performed. the KVH trade, while much maligned was made at the right time, that guy went downhill FAST after his trade and Nazr alone helped us make the playoffs in 04 (remember, Deke Mutombo had just gone down), the Malik trade got us draft picks when it was clear that the 04-05 season was done, Mo T has been one of most consistent players effort wise for the last season, Nate has been solid, Eddy Curry is the future of the franchise, Steph is the current leader of the team and before his injury was playing at an all-star level, as he did in 04 to lead us to the playoffs.

what people don't give Zeke credit for is when he got here, the only assets he had were expiring deals and picks. there was no talent whatsoever. the cupboard was bare.

Free Agency: D
Again, we were never under the cap and we had no chance to be so because of Layden. Zeke made some bad moves, really his worst in Free Agency, but they were with the MLE. He has picked up Jackie Butler and Qyntel off the scrap heap, which saves this grade from being an F.
Drafting: B+
Frye, Lee, Robinson, Ariza. The best four picks in a row this team had made since the 60s. Frye is our best rookie since Ewing. Isiah has done an excellent job with the draft. It's not an A because he traded some picks away, but he also got some back (Nate, Lee, this year's SA pick - hey root for Dallas to finish ahead of SA, woo!).
Salary Cap: C
Now, people will probably freak out at this, but I think that one of the only weapons Zeke had to acquire talent was the team's ability to take back more money. Argue that he should have waited, used the draft, cleaned up the cap - and i will remind you that at his first Garden press conference when Zeke said it would take years to fix this team, Dolan interupted him and said, "we're making the playoffs this season."

Think about that. Our roster was:

Eisley, Ward, Frankie
Houston (soon to be injured), Shandon
KVH, uh... Shandon
KT, Othella, SPOON, Sweetcakes
Deke, Doleac

and we were 10-18 when Zeke got here and Dolan was thinking playoffs. You don't think that affected his plan in the short term and led him to try and acquire Marbury and Sheed? Zeke did make the playoffs, with Houston going down at a crucial stretch and never returning.

I think Zeke has done a pretty damn good job with the talent he's brought in. When I see a game like last night's and everything is clicking and they play D and they go up 25 on ORL or 18 on DAL, I see a very good team that just needs to learn to bring consistent effort. I think this group can improve from within.

If I were running the show, I would give Zeke through NEXT season. That would be year two of the young kids, year two with Curry, year two with Brown. If they don't show great strides next year and the Bulls finish with a better record than the Knicks, then it's time for Zeke to go. Until then, I think he's built a strong foundation that just needs time. Besides Marbury, our two most important players are 22 and 23 years old.

I don't know, I can see how it's frustrating, but the team was in such a hole that an instant turn around was never going to happen. This team is fighting, they are trying, Marbury is playing injured. I think it's really just a matter of time, whether everything clicks this year or next year, I think we have a very good team here.

Posted by misterearl:

Er, um excuse me... You Missed A Few dj

( I love dis guy)

1. trading - Eddy Curry is a nice centerpiece to rebuild a frontcourt that featured Kurt Thomas as its tallest player. Jamal Crawford is talented, impetuous but learning. Antonio Davis provides leadership. Hey, if your lady looked like Kendra, you might run into the stands to protect her if you felt something was wrong.

2. free agency - DerMarr Johnson, Jackie Butler and Qyntel Woods were tarnished jewels and you know I love a good story. Name a GM with a spotless free agent record, and I'll buy you dinner next time after we get together in section 404. Your choice.

3. drafting - how can you adequately evaluate a crop of rookies halfway through their first season? Sheesh. Did you see Channing Frye's new haircut?

4. salary cap - it ain't your money

5. Media relations - image is everything. Quick, name a New York Manager or Head Coach that does NOT have a love-hate relationship with the press, or is not one step from the streets? You think Omar Minaya REALLY is deliberately looking to make the Mets Latin America's Team? What about Herm? And whatever happened to Byron Scott?

6. Citizenship - how does the team relate to the New York community? Did Isiah implore his team to connect with the man on the streets by riding the subway evry now and then? Do the players get out and shake hands? Hell, they're going to Philly on the train.

7. The Spike Lee Factor - are the celebrities back at The Garden or not? How are ticket sales? Is the sound level any different at The World's Most Famous Arena compared to the years 2000-2004?

8. Sales - how much Knicks gear is being sold in the NBA Store or online?

9. Are Cablevsion subscriptions up or flat?

10. Quantity of Ink Consumed - Are the Knicks a compelling story or simply being ignored? Has anyone actually read a story about the Nets recently?



Forget the silly letter grading system and arbitatry report card.

The REAL question is how many years should a new GM or Team President be granted to rebuild an NBA franchise that was sinking faster than what Michael Ray be talking about?

ANY NBA franchise.

We have a notable core of something we haven't had in decades. Young legs and young minds. The REAL qusetion is how LONG do you offer PATIENCE and SUPPORT to the Under 25 Get Fresh Crew - Channing Frye, Eddy Curry, David Lee, Qyntel, Jamal, Nate and even Jackie Butler - to find their collective voice as a team?

It's not about Isiah. It's about the PLAYERS he's acquired in the pro-cess that remains a (Doctor Evil sign language) "pro-cess".

And in your opinion, If these new young Knicks are so flawed, how long should it take for another GM to make it right?

Inquiring minds want to know

i understand what you're saying mister earl. in the grand scheme of things, it's about patience and whether or not the team is moving in the right direction. i agree that it has. but for every channing frye drafted, there's a jerome james signed or traded for. why do i have to accept that? why do i have to accept the trading of mo taylor AND still giving up a pick in the process? why should i have to accept hiring a guy like lenny wilkens and then just dumping him in less than a year b/c he wasn't getting through? that cost us an entire year. why do i have to accept trading 2 #1's in the marbury deal when we pretty much BAILED out the suns franchise and saved them over $100 mil? and the standard "you have to give to get" doesn't work with me. why? b/c these guys all have baggage and question marks surrounding them. they are all risks. and if you're going to take on risks, then why spend so much money thereby making it more difficult to move them if they don't work out? dumars took on risks and journeymen but didn't spend hundreds of millions to do it. so if he needs to move chauncy, he can. but if we need to move marbury, it will be very hard to get fair value.

it's just bothersome that isiah's eye for talent in young guys is much better than his eye for talent in the veterans. almost each and every move of his can be debated. why? b/c we're not winning. and at the end of the day, that's what EVERYBODY is judged by. wins and losses. and so far, we have not been winning. does that mean that we won't be winning next year or the year after? nope. every gm usually makes one move that he's judged by after he's gone. layden was the dice deal. babc ck was the vince deal. it was initially the steph deal with isiah...and now it's the eddy deal. all the eggs are in the eddy basket. it's a good basket to take a risk on but if that doesn't work out, where does that leave us? he took a big chance and sacrificed some important draft picks if it doesn't work out. there is no contingency plan if things don't work out and there needed to be one since eddy is a question mark, not only on the court, but health wise as well.

mister earl, it's just so frustrating to go to a game and watch a team show low bball IQ and are very porous defensively. i see a guy like chris paul and be like "how can a team like new orleans draft this kid and he's leading them and they're winning games?" while our $120 mil roster gets blown out every 3 or 4 games? it's frustrating. is it rebuilding? at the end of the day, i think it is but we need to start paring down payroll b/c i don't want to give up some of our young guys if we don't have to. i don't want to include david lee or nate robinson in a deal just so we can shed q1's contract. i want to get to a point where we have all our young pieces in place and are in the driver's seat in going out and getting someone to help them. if we continue spending money at this pace on sub-par talent, we'll never be in the driver's seat in trying to make moves and will always be in a position of weakness trying to improve the team.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01-28-2006 12:45 PM]

We went from having smart players who suck but also play hard, but still suck, to talented players who are athletic but have shown little to no heart and effort.

What players have no heart and no effort?

>Isiah hasn't been a good gm yet.

What defines a "good" GM with such an ineheritance of unmovable contracts?

Marbury - good player with bad attitude just learning to play with good players in a good team by changing self-centered habits

Qyntel Woods - good player who is just getting on the good foot who can get gooder once he starts feeling loved. Already WAY gooder than Tim Thomas AND Keith Van Horn beacuse he is tougher. You gotta be good and tough to play championship football with a torn ACL

Curry - good big player who is only 23 and can be really gooder when he learns to pass gooder

Crawford - inconsistent young player who shows REALLY good streaks and some bad streaks that make one wonder why he doesn't play good all the time

Mo Taylor - good player who was good then not-so-good and now good again

Channing Frye - good rookie player who nobody thought would be this good. Nobody knows how good he can be.

David Lee - good rookie player who everyone bitched and moaned about on draft night of who is gooder than some good players drafted ahead of him

Nate - good rookie player who will be gooder once he calms down and learns the game depends on more than athetic ability to play good

Tony Davis - good old player who is not as good as he used to be which wasn't that good in the first place, but played on some good teams

Trevor Ariza - good teenage second round pick who could be gooder if he had a jumper. A good candidate to learn the guard positioin.

Malk Rose - anybody can be good with San Antonio

Richardson - good with Phoenix, not so good with NY

Larry Brown - good coach

Yet, Isiah hasn't been a good gm yet?

Zeke needs about 5 years before we can really judge what kind of GM he really is...Yeah you can hold his foot to the fire now if you don't want to be fair about the whole situation...He never had the option to clean house and start anew because that is not in the owner's game plan...But Isiah gets the blame for this....He never had the option to sign big money free agents because the Knicks were well over the cap when he got here and would have been for many years to come...He's getting some heat for that too...There are no good free agents signing for 1 or 2 million per yr ..or even 5 million per yr in the NBA...He doesn't have much options there either...The only choices he has is trades and draft choices....when you have no talent to work with...who are you getting in return for the players you have....How many Pete Bobcocks are there dealing Vince Carter in the NBA....The Knick had no one of value to trade...NOT ONE PLAYER...Then you can talk about who you get back in return in trades....How many of those 2 number ones the Knicks traded for Marbs are playing for Phonix..It was actually 1 number one and rights to a foreign player who wasn't planning on playing in the US anyway....So the only thing this guy can be judged on is his drafts which you can't really argue with at this point....He needs to be given time to see whether or not he can turn this franchise around....So far it's not a great job, but there is promise...It would be wrong to pull the plug at this point....The Knicks are young with pieces for the future...He needs 5 years before he can be really and fairly evaluated as a GM....Everyone else gets that much in the NBA....Why not Zeke....Especially with his talent for the draft......Let's give the guy a break please....

>FA- F. Why would I care about Butler, Q2 or Dermaar Johnson?

Because they play forthe Knicks. The team you supposedly care about.

Then again fishmike - Qyntel helped the Knicks (11 and 6 and plenty of bonus hustle points) win last night or does that matter?

Why is Qyntel saddled with a permanent negative basketball opinion of him?

What did he do to you?

The auditioning Knicks are composed primarily of a young crew of raw players that are still learning about themselves and still exploring the pro At the same time they are still learning about their demanding and impulsive coach. As he is learning about them.

Iit ain't that deep

Posted by Rich:

5. Public relations: Prior to Wednesday, Isiah deserved a B+. The grade has at least temporarily dropped to a D.

dropped to a "D"?

* prior to Wednesday he joked about firing another professional colleague in front of millions and then fired him

* he wanted to fight Shandon for blowing off the end of season ring kissing

* he wants to beat up Bill Simmons

is that how the "leader" of the franchise should treat people?

>Part of leadership is not taking sh it.

Thank you rich. Part of leadership is being a dictator and not a follower. That drives some people nuts. Especially in the press which is dedicated not to analysis, but to sensationalism and big headlines

Bartletts Quotations

"This ain't charity" - Isiah Thomas

Coaching prowess aside, Chaney was still a respected professional in the league, as was Shandon.

And Isiah increased Simmons readership 10-fold. All he did was give people more reason to tune in to Simmons column. Must be part of the unconventional methods strategy where he has rebuilt the Suns, the hated hated Bulls and now hated media persona and big time Celtic's fan Simmons.

[Edited by - McK1 on 01-28-2006 7:49 PM]