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Knixkik
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8/20/2001  9:57 AM
Mark Jackson, Howard Eisley, or Charlie Ward? We can assume that Ward will be gone, but i consider Jax and Eisley to be pretty equal. Jax will probably start because he's been here longer, but Eisley should at least finish games. Thoughts?
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Andrew
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8/20/2001  10:14 AM
I would like Jax to start (assuming Ward is shipped), with Eisley coming off the bench. I think he would bring a little more energy and pep to the team when he comes in. It might also make the team chemistry better with Shandon and Eisley to be both playing on the second unit.
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UKDad
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8/20/2001  10:25 AM
Okay guys - what type of team are we going to have? Do we run, bring it up slow and go into a fixed offense or what??? What VG needs to do is decide and then get the players to go to the offense he wants to use. The Knicks are certainly more athletic than last year, I hope and the new defensive rules will create a bit of uncertainty regarding the leagues offenses. So - Think about these aspects and then start picking your starting lineups.
Mine - Camby, Thomas, Spree, Houston and Jackson.
From there - game situations, conditioning, injuries etc will decide the substitutions.
Lets get into the season. Then we can talk about something more substantial than Omar Cook's dubious chances of playing in the NBA.
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knickfan65
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8/20/2001  1:57 PM
I say no matter if we trade a PG or not (chances are we won't). Start Eisely or Ward, Jax is slowing down, he seen his best days unfortunately in Indiana. He plays weak defense, he has no outside shot and he can't drive. His ball distribution has gotten worse since coming from Toronto, so you can't even make that your argument as to why he should start. His strongest asset is he can post up. Even though we have a weak inside game, we don't need our PG contributing in the post. Everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt last year because he was trying to adapt. It didn't take him that long in Toronto. They realized he was slowing them down! Now their problem is our problem as Ewing was! He's a well paid professional. It should take him weeks not months to learn the system. We can't afford to wait another half season for him to get used to the system. I 'm not bashing Jax, it's just the truth, he has seen his best days.
Knixkik
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8/20/2001  3:04 PM
Posted by UKDad:

Okay guys - what type of team are we going to have? Do we run, bring it up slow and go into a fixed offense or what??? What VG needs to do is decide and then get the players to go to the offense he wants to use. The Knicks are certainly more athletic than last year, I hope and the new defensive rules will create a bit of uncertainty regarding the leagues offenses. So - Think about these aspects and then start picking your starting lineups.
Mine - Camby, Thomas, Spree, Houston and Jackson.
From there - game situations, conditioning, injuries etc will decide the substitutions.
Lets get into the season. Then we can talk about something more substantial than Omar Cook's dubious chances of playing in the NBA.
I think we definetly have to run and push the ball up the floor. We have a very athletic team and the only way we're going to win is to take advantage of our strengths. I think Allan Houston will benefit most of all from a zone defense because we will be able to move the ball until he gets the look he wants. He can create his own shot which already makes him affective against a man-to-man.

Bottom line is we're gonna have to run and get easy shots. Though Jackson doesn't run well he still specializes in finding the right man at the right time and that will make our running game more controlled.
Dano
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8/20/2001  4:19 PM
Sure, with players like Spree and Marcus, you would expect the Knicks to run more. This is also true with the addition of athletic players like Anderson and Eisley.

I've heard JVG say over the summer that he doesn't think that a fast-paced offense is the answer. He cited teams such as Cleveland that run up tempo offenses and their not very good.

When Jackson is at the point, I dont see them running the court at all.
martin
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8/20/2001  6:20 PM
Posted by Dano:

When Jackson is at the point, I dont see them running the court at all.

I can't remember what happened for the entire time Jackson was a Knick at the end of the season, but when he first came it seemed like the Knicks pushed the ball more often then had been done previously.

I say push the ball up as many times as possible to take advantage of the speed we have and use the half court offense if things don't work out. With big men like Camby and Thomas and 1's and 2's like Spree, Houston, Eisly, Jackson, Anderson, we should be able to run a lot more. Of course, this is all precedented on getting defensive rebounds - one area the Knicks are lacking.
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knicksbabyyeah
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8/21/2001  5:33 AM
We might use the same format they used in Indiana with Jax starting but Best finishing.

Eisley will have to finish the game. Jax still can't play D but I can live with that in any of the first three quarters.
RemBee76
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8/21/2001  12:23 PM
Sure, it seems like a grand idea to run. Riley-style grind-it-out-basketball is a thing of the past. Speed is what you need, right?

Problem is, the Knicks don't have the skills to do it. You need more than just fast and young legs (which is really all Anderson and Eisley bring) you need defensive rebounding, ball-handling, and a pg with great court vision and distribution ability. It also doesn't hurt to have a guard who can drive consistently and open shots up on the perimeter.

The Knicks have none, or few, of these things. Their Defensive Rebounding is not that strong, Spree and Houston are NOT good ball handlers (Houston is atrocious) and Eisley, Ward and Jackson are more comfortable in the half-court set. Spree and Anderson can drive to the hoop, but neither one of them look to pass the ball off when they do.

We have a little more speed, and a little more youth than we did before the Rice trade, but we still don't have a run-and-gun team.
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Caseloads
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8/21/2001  12:35 PM
Posted by RemBee76:

Sure, it seems like a grand idea to run. Riley-style grind-it-out-basketball is a thing of the past. Speed is what you need, right?

Problem is, the Knicks don't have the skills to do it. You need more than just fast and young legs (which is really all Anderson and Eisley bring) you need defensive rebounding, ball-handling, and a pg with great court vision and distribution ability. It also doesn't hurt to have a guard who can drive consistently and open shots up on the perimeter.

The Knicks have none, or few, of these things. Their Defensive Rebounding is not that strong, Spree and Houston are NOT good ball handlers (Houston is atrocious) and Eisley, Ward and Jackson are more comfortable in the half-court set. Spree and Anderson can drive to the hoop, but neither one of them look to pass the ball off when they do.

We have a little more speed, and a little more youth than we did before the Rice trade, but we still don't have a run-and-gun team.
true. remember, this is bball, not a track meet.
nyknyg
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8/21/2001  5:06 PM
id have camby, thomas, sprewell at sf/pg houston, anderson at sm/pg, or if anything, start eisly. i'd trade jackson/harrington for jahadi white or oklawandi from LA
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Caseloads
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8/21/2001  8:04 PM
Posted by nyknyg:

id have camby, thomas, sprewell at sf/pg houston, anderson at sm/pg, or if anything, start eisly. i'd trade jackson/harrington for jahadi white or oklawandi from LA
yeah - jax+harrington can go for white or kandi man.
Caseloads
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8/22/2001  10:28 PM
Posted by nyknyg:

id have camby, thomas, sprewell at sf/pg houston, anderson at sm/pg, or if anything, start eisly. i'd trade jackson/harrington for jahadi white or oklawandi from LA
i was thinking of a 3 way trade
jax to portland
keon to ny
bonzi toronto
Knixkik
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8/23/2001  10:15 AM
i was thinking of a 3 way trade
jax to portland
keon to ny
bonzi toronto

I do kinda like it, but there are two things wrong with that deal. The first thing is portland's end of the deal. They probably wouldn't do it and we would need to add a lot more.

The second part is Toronto getting Wells. If they got him they would be that much better and would probably be the best in the east. I don't want to make any trade that would improve a team whos already giving us trouble. Here are two trades for Keon i thought up.

jax, ward, or harrington to Clippers.
Maggette and a pick from new york to Raptors.
keon clark to Knicks.

or.....

Find a way to trade harrington and picks to toronto for clark and make it work under the cap. Fillers must be included.
Caseloads
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8/23/2001  10:34 AM
Posted by Knixkik:
i was thinking of a 3 way trade
jax to portland
keon to ny
bonzi toronto

I do kinda like it, but there are two things wrong with that deal. The first thing is portland's end of the deal. They probably wouldn't do it and we would need to add a lot more.

The second part is Toronto getting Wells. If they got him they would be that much better and would probably be the best in the east. I don't want to make any trade that would improve a team whos already giving us trouble. Here are two trades for Keon i thought up.

jax, ward, or harrington to Clippers.
Maggette and a pick from new york to Raptors.
keon clark to Knicks.

or.....

Find a way to trade harrington and picks to toronto for clark and make it work under the cap. Fillers must be included.
Who would you rather have and why?
Keon or Jahidi? I'd say Jahidi, because he can really fill the post and adds something unique (a body wider than LJ's) to the post - wherein, Keon give us another Camby-esque pogo stick and probably would not be one of JVG's favorites.
knicksbabyyeah
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8/23/2001  10:59 AM
Jahidi might be strong but Keon is another Camby in the making.

With Keon in the future we might even put Camby and Clark on the floor if we play against the Spurs or something. Keon is much better in my opinion and has the legitimate size for a center. We're already small why add a 6'9" center-->jahidi?

Camby finally some PF minutes?

[Edited by - knicksbabyyeah on 08/23/2001 11:00:41]
Knixkik
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8/23/2001  11:44 AM
I agree i would much rather have Keon because he has a lot of potential and is the future Marcus Camby with a better shooting touch.
Caseloads
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8/23/2001  11:52 AM
Honestly, I like Camby better at the 5 than the 4. Remember that game when we played the Hawks last year, at ATL when Mutombo was back and LJ was out?

We started the lineup:

PG Ward
SG Houston
SF Spree
PF Camby
C Longley

and Camby kept getting toasted and we lost the game, bigtime.
Knixkik
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8/23/2001  1:17 PM
I can agree with you on that. Camby is a much better center then people give him credit for. Even though he has never had the size and strength to play against the best centers, he still managed to hold his own. This year, however, is a new year and with his added weight and strength combined with his athletism, he should not only be a good center, but he should be one of the best. Behind Shaq, Robinson, and Mutombo(maybe Zo if he's healthy) Camby is the best center in the league no doubt. He will likely be an all-star whether he's a center or power forward, but i really like him at center. Camby and Thomas with Harrington and Spoon(and maybe some LJ) coming off the bench is going to be much tougher then everyone thinks. Just imagine if we can add another solid big guy in exchange for Ward or Jax. We will be tough to push around.
Caseloads
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8/23/2001  2:29 PM
Posted by Knixkik:

I can agree with you on that. Camby is a much better center then people give him credit for. Even though he has never had the size and strength to play against the best centers, he still managed to hold his own. This year, however, is a new year and with his added weight and strength combined with his athletism, he should not only be a good center, but he should be one of the best. Behind Shaq, Robinson, and Mutombo(maybe Zo if he's healthy) Camby is the best center in the league no doubt. He will likely be an all-star whether he's a center or power forward, but i really like him at center. Camby and Thomas with Harrington and Spoon(and maybe some LJ) coming off the bench is going to be much tougher then everyone thinks. Just imagine if we can add another solid big guy in exchange for Ward or Jax. We will be tough to push around.
Yeah, Camby is good at the Center, and that's why if we trade Ward or Jax, I'd like for it to be for a brusier-type Center - Jahidi White, Foyle or a Kandi man.
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