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Larry Brown Makes an interesting point...
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oohah
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1/10/2006  8:37 PM
Larry Brown quote: "The only way we can start to play better is limit the rotation and play the young kids," Brown said. "That's our future right now."

Some guys around here have been saying that for a while.

I find it interesting that LB didn't say: "The young kids have finally learned how to play, so now they are getting their chance."

oohah

P.S. sorry for the typo in the headline....



[Edited by - oohah on 01-10-2006 8:46 PM]
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SlimPack
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1/10/2006  9:25 PM
david lee was actually pretty bad today, and robinson was average, but frye was awesome, anyway I still dont know if they should all be starting but I defintely think they should get minutes over guys like rose and james.
oohah
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1/10/2006  9:29 PM
david lee was actually pretty bad today, and robinson was average, but frye was awesome, anyway I still dont know if they should all be starting but I defintely think they should get minutes over guys like rose and james.

Yours would be a pretty hard opinion to argue with considering what we have seen from the Knicks since the 'youth movement'.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
SlimPack
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1/10/2006  9:33 PM
after tonights game I was wondering if Q shouls start over lee. I dont know, I know what Im about to say may seem kind of stupid since he had like 33 points, but I thought richardson did a good job on lebron, oh well we'll see what things develop, although I do think frye should start over AD, becuase what he lacks in experience he makes up for in pure talent, and he isnt THAT bad at defense and rebounding.
oohah
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1/10/2006  9:43 PM
after tonights game I was wondering if Q shouls start over lee. I dont know, I know what Im about to say may seem kind of stupid since he had like 33 points, but I thought richardson did a good job on lebron, oh well we'll see what things develop, although I do think frye should start over AD, becuase what he lacks in experience he makes up for in pure talent, and he isnt THAT bad at defense and rebounding.

If all were right with Q, I would say he should definitely be starting over Lee, but it is hard to say what Q can do on a consistent basis. Will he recover or will he just decline?

Q did do a good job on James, but James did most of his missing in the fourth tonight all by himself.

Ad should get a few minutes, but like yourself, I think that Frye should start. My reason is that it would be nice for the game to begin with his offensive punch.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 01-10-2006 9:44 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TheSage
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1/10/2006  9:47 PM
When are you guys going to come to the realization that Brown knows more about this games than anyone posting here?
martin
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1/10/2006  9:51 PM
Posted by oohah:

Larry Brown quote: "The only way we can start to play better is limit the rotation and play the young kids," Brown said. "That's our future right now."

Some guys around here have been saying that for a while.

I find it interesting that LB didn't say: "The young kids have finally learned how to play, so now they are getting their chance."

oohah

oohah, don't take Brown's word too literally. I think his meaning is dually told to also represent your second quote, although he can't/won't/just didn't just come out and say it.
P.S. sorry for the typo in the headline....

Fixed
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nixluva
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1/10/2006  10:10 PM
No LB now realizes that he can win with the kids and many of us have been saying that from day one. We wanted him to settle on a rotation and now he's done that. By playing a better Starting lineup he's helping Steph too. What PG wants to have totally different guys on the floor everygame. You can't develop any chemistry. Now the team is showing that they aren't losers and that when given a chance the kids can win games.

Steph has shown all his DOUBTERS and HATERS that he CAN lead a team. I think this is the best ball i've ever seen him play.
oohah
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1/10/2006  10:17 PM
When are you guys going to come to the realization that Brown knows more about this games than anyone posting here?

This statement applies to every coach in the NBA. Do you mean to imply that LB cannot make errors? Every move is correct?

oohah, don't take Brown's word too literally. I think his meaning is dually told to also represent your second quote, although he can't/won't/just didn't just come out and say it.

You might be right, but LB isn't usually one to mince words. He says what he means. If anything, I think his choice of words was meant to be kind to Rose and AD.

Fixed

Thanks!

No LB now realizes that he can win with the kids and many of us have been saying that from day one. We wanted him to settle on a rotation and now he's done that. By playing a better Starting lineup he's helping Steph too. What PG wants to have totally different guys on the floor everygame. You can't develop any chemistry. Now the team is showing that they aren't losers and that when given a chance the kids can win games.

Well put.

Steph has shown all his DOUBTERS and HATERS that he CAN lead a team. I think this is the best ball i've ever seen him play.

It is definitely among his best, especially as a team leader.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 01-10-2006 10:18 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
GoNyGoNyGo
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1/10/2006  10:46 PM
Posted by TheSage:

When are you guys going to come to the realization that Brown knows more about this games than anyone posting here?

Exactly right, let the man do his job.
TheSage
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1/10/2006  11:15 PM
Would the young players have responded the way they have if they didn't have to do certain things to prove themselves? Nate learning control, Lee shooting 100- 200 shots after ptactive, Frye shooting off the dribble. It's the Brown way. Live with it.
Nalod
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1/10/2006  11:22 PM
Lee with his height, hops, and rebounding is excellent.

In larry we trust.
Bippity10
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1/11/2006  12:22 AM
The young guys earned minutes by listening to Brown for the past two months. Not sure why people have such a hard time understanding this concept. You cannot just hand players minutes they will not develop. These guys play unbeleivable hard(see Mo Taylor who has gotten rid of the lazy reputation) for Brown because they know if they don't they won't play. Vet, rookie doesn't matter. You do things the Brown way you play.

You can use tonight as evidence. We could not hit a shot for the first 5 or 6 minutes. LB went through 10 players trying to find someone who is playing well. Then we start playing well and pretty much only about 8 players played the rest of the game.

I've been coaching for 8 years and I've learned one thing. When you have a young team you don't settle on a rotation and then they start playing well. They start playing well, earn their time and then settle on a rotation. There is a reason why LB's teams start horribly and then get hot. It's because he does not care about game to game wins. He cares about developing a long term winner!!!!!!!! That is why he is a great coach. 8 seeds and pleasing fans and reporters means nothing to him. His job is to win a title.
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nyk4ever
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1/11/2006  12:46 AM
The young guys are playing well now becuase of what Larry Brown put them through the first 2 months of this season. There are very few rookies who come into this league and have impacts right way and the reason that the Knicks have 2 rookies in the Starting Lineup is becuase they had to work hard in practice, listen to the coach and were more hungry then vets to play the 'right way' I'm not saying that Larry Brown is the sole reason the rookies are playing, I think they were smart draft choices but I definately think he is part of the reason that they are being as effective as they are right now. Larry Brown was voted by league GM's as the best coach in the NBA for a reason, lets let him coach and stop second guessing him.

It's pretty obvious that the Larry Brown is working for this team when many people on this forum were aggrevated by every move he made early in the season, even knowing full well how teams in their first year under Brown play poorly. The Larry Brown way works, stop second-guessing and let the man coach.
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crzymdups
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1/11/2006  12:55 AM
I said this a few times during the Larry Brown saga over the summer, we had a "Larry Brown" Draft. aka, we drafted players who went to school for 3 or 4 years to top notch programs, who were known for hustle and effort and playing hard. I believe Zeke liked our players, but also picked them with an eye towards making the roster a little more appealing to Brown.

It was only a matter of time before he played these guys. He came in to training camp day one and said DLee looked like Bobby Jones and Nate Robinson was "crazy" (while smiling and shaking his head). Brown loves these kids. I think he was protecting them, trying to have them earn their roles and teach them a few things. I actually don't think they would have played so soon if guys like Malik Rose weren't so awful.
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oohah
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1/11/2006  4:42 AM
Exactly right, let the man do his job.

By that logic we should not criticize any player, coach, or GM. I mean, they know more about the game than we ever could right?

The young guys earned minutes by listening to Brown for the past two months. Not sure why people have such a hard time understanding this concept. You cannot just hand players minutes they will not develop. These guys play unbeleivable hard(see Mo Taylor who has gotten rid of the lazy reputation) for Brown because they know if they don't they won't play. Vet, rookie doesn't matter. You do things the Brown way you play.

It's not that anyone has a hard time. It's that your point is entirely speculative and based on assumptions that none of us can possibly know. It completely ignores the facts that we can all see: the biggest change to the team has been the way Larry has coached the games--benching the vets, turning those minutes over to the young players, pushing the ball more. I don't know why it is so hard for you to see that.

You can use tonight as evidence. We could not hit a shot for the first 5 or 6 minutes. LB went through 10 players trying to find someone who is playing well. Then we start playing well and pretty much only about 8 players played the rest of the game.

And tonight's lineup changes are evidence of what exactly?

I've been coaching for 8 years and I've learned one thing. When you have a young team you don't settle on a rotation and then they start playing well. They start playing well, earn their time and then settle on a rotation.

Except according to what we can actually see rather than make up, that is not what happened with the Knicks. In fact the opposite happened. They settled on a rotation/style and then they started to win. Unless you are privy to what happens behind the scenes your 'point' is pure speculation.

Also, are you saying thar AD and ROse had earned more time than their couterparts for the first 20+ games of the season. INteresting take considering how god-awful they were.

There is a reason why LB's teams start horribly and then get hot. It's because he does not care about game to game wins. He cares about developing a long term winner!!!!!!!! That is why he is a great coach. 8 seeds and pleasing fans and reporters means nothing to him. His job is to win a title.

Larry Brown who is most famous for moving along, his biggest concern is developing a long-term winner? Like at Philidelphia? The whole start slow, then get hot is a fiction that has been fed to us by the media. I don't know why so many have bought it. Take a look back at his career, not just the past 5. All of your points about LB are purely speculative, and do not address what we have all actually seen.

The young guys are playing well now becuase of what Larry Brown put them through the first 2 months of this season. There are very few rookies who come into this league and have impacts right way and the reason that the Knicks have 2 rookies in the Starting Lineup is becuase they had to work hard in practice, listen to the coach and were more hungry then vets to play the 'right way'

The reason the Knicks have 2 rookies (Should be 3) in the starting lineup is because the guys playing in front of them were terrible. Rose lost his minutes not because he did not play the 'right way', but because he did not produce. Same with AD.

What is this ephemeral 'right way' that they are playing now, and what evidence do you have that they were not playing the 'right way' before? Do you really believe that Lee was not hungry at the beginning of the season? He was complacent? Why did it take nearly 28 games of the vets playing the wrong way for the minutes to get turned over to the youth?

Can anyone answer without 'speculating' (A nice word for making things up.)?

I'm not saying that Larry Brown is the sole reason the rookies are playing, I think they were smart draft choices but I definately think he is part of the reason that they are being as effective as they are right now. Larry Brown was voted by league GM's as the best coach in the NBA for a reason, lets let him coach and stop second guessing him.

If you want to believe that the Rookies were unable to play ata high level until LB waived his magic wand, I guess I can't convince you any different. And if you want to believe that LB is perfect and therefore should not be criticized by the likes of us, please tell me, who may we criticize? Also, how am I or anyone else stopping him from doing his job?

It's pretty obvious that the Larry Brown is working for this team when many people on this forum were aggrevated by every move he made early in the season, even knowing full well how teams in their first year under Brown play poorly. The Larry Brown way works, stop second-guessing and let the man coach.

The only thing that is obvious is that LB is doing everything different since last week. Did you notice that? And by the way, the LB teams play poorly in their first year is a fiction. Some do some don't. Look at his record before you make those kind of statements.

If you want to believe in LB as others do in their own particular religous icons, that is your right. But please don't tell us independent thinkers to stop thinking.

I said this a few times during the Larry Brown saga over the summer, we had a "Larry Brown" Draft. aka, we drafted players who went to school for 3 or 4 years to top notch programs, who were known for hustle and effort and playing hard. I believe Zeke liked our players, but also picked them with an eye towards making the roster a little more appealing to Brown.

More speculation based on?

It was only a matter of time before he played these guys. He came in to training camp day one and said DLee looked like Bobby Jones and Nate Robinson was "crazy" (while smiling and shaking his head).

Bobby Jones was a pretty good player so I don't understand how that means little/no playing time. If you mean to compare NR and Lee, how come NR has gotten his time throughout the season but Lee only started getting his last week.

Brown loves these kids. I think he was protecting them, trying to have them earn their roles and teach them a few things. I actually don't think they would have played so soon if guys like Malik Rose weren't so awful.

I guess that could be true...or... he just figured that losing 9 games in a row was unacceptable and he decided that the Knicks could not do any worse playing the youth and pushing the ball. And he was right.

***

3 replies, and not one addressed the quote from Larry Brown.

oohah





[Edited by - oohah on 01-11-2006 04:45 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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1/11/2006  7:35 AM
Of course everything is speculative oohahh. Thanks for clearing that up. We are all being speculative. But I'm just guessing going by Larry Brown's career that he wasn't going senile, knows by now at age 60 that he needs a set rotation(because he always has coached with one) and didn't forget how to coach overnight. Fans think that having a set rotation as a positive is some big secret that only a chosen few no about. Give me a break.

When we were losing I told you I've been in the same position before. Of course I'm speculating but I know what I did in a similar situation. I knew that I needed to settle on a rotation but I also knew that I could not just give minutes to players that weren't doing things my way. If I did, I knew that my team would still be doing the wrong thing 3 months later. I knew I had to make guys WIN starting postitions and minutes not be handed them. Accountability is why LB's teams win and why Don Chaney and Lenny Wilken's teams did not. Those guys handed minutes to the best players. Noone was afraid of anything. And the effortless performances ran amok

The biggest change to this team is not the rotation. The biggest change in this team is effort level. There is a reason behind this. LB started guys IN THEIR HOME TOWNS. Many of you thought this was senility. Some thought he was an idiot. Some said he didn't care about the season. To me the message was clear. He was willing to start anyone and anybody, because nobody had earned the starting positions. It's all speculation but I'm pretty sure we can all figure out who was closer to reality.
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fishmike
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1/11/2006  7:36 AM
3 replies, and not one addressed the quote from Larry Brown.
why bother? The guy blurbs whatever is on his mind at the time. He once shook his head at AI for having 7 turn overs in a game. Funny thing was the sixers won and AI dropped in 50. Thats just Larry.

oohah you seem to want to talk about LB like he's just another Lenny Wilkins or Don Chaney. He's not. He's the best coach in the NBA, at least according to the GMs in the league. He's never lhad a losing record with a franchise. He's regarded as one of the league's best teachers. Its one thing to tell your players to D and board better. Its another when a guy like Crawford who's built like a burnt match goes and gets you 10 boards.

Of course he makes mistakes! But what you label as a mistake may just be part of his plan.
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Bippity10
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1/11/2006  7:41 AM
I also know that LB said he would get a set rotation as guys started to play better. Contradiction, no?

I also remember him saying he was going to settle on a rotation because that's the only way to win. He also said he would play the young guys. The next night he didn't play the young guys and went 12 deep and even asked the ball boy to play. He makes them earn it!!!!!
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Bippity10
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1/11/2006  7:44 AM
I think about 2 months ago. I said LB knew what he was doing. I said he would begin to settle on a rotation. I said he would begin to develop more and more plays that suit this team. I said he would eventually play the young guys. And I said when it all happened all the fans would say I told you so, and that they knew more than the coach and that he is an idiot for not being able to recognize that Malik Rose was not our starting SF.

I'm no genius, but I seem to know what is going to happen before it happens.
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Larry Brown Makes an interesting point...

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