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nyballer
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7/21/2002  12:42 PM
The Kings want to win now, Webber and Spree are tight, so how about...
Knicks trade: Spree, Thomas, Postell
Knicks receive: Miller, Iligauskas
Kings trade: Peja, Gerald Wallace, Mateen Cleaves
Kings receive: Spree, Thomas, Hill
Cavs trade: Miller, Tyrone Hill, Iligauskas
Cavs receive: Peja, Wallace, Cleaves, Postell

Why the Kings do it:
the Kings are challenging the lakers now, and Spree is an excellent defender, good scorer, and thrives in the Kings style of play. He defends better than Peja as well. And they get two big PF's that can rebound - against shaq, the more big bodies you have, the better off you are. They could have a lineup like bibby, spree, thomas, webber, divac

Why the Cavs do it:
They want young players with potential. Peja could be a superstar in the league, Wallace and postell have potential and Cleaves is a young PG drafted i nthe mid 1st round.
Lineup: Cleaves, Wagner, Peja, Wallace, Diop

Why the Knicks do it:
'Dre...nuff said.
Then we sign rodney rogers with our entire 4.5
Lineup: miller, houston, rogers, dice, iligauskas

[Edited by - NYBAller on 07/21/2002 12:47:46]
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
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Caseloads
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7/21/2002  2:40 PM
Posted by nyballer:

The Kings want to win now, Webber and Spree are tight, so how about...
Knicks trade: Spree, Thomas, Postell
Knicks receive: Miller, Iligauskas
Kings trade: Peja, Gerald Wallace, Mateen Cleaves
Kings receive: Spree, Thomas, Hill
Cavs trade: Miller, Tyrone Hill, Iligauskas
Cavs receive: Peja, Wallace, Cleaves, Postell

Why the Kings do it:
the Kings are challenging the lakers now, and Spree is an excellent defender, good scorer, and thrives in the Kings style of play. He defends better than Peja as well. And they get two big PF's that can rebound - against shaq, the more big bodies you have, the better off you are. They could have a lineup like bibby, spree, thomas, webber, divac

Why the Cavs do it:
They want young players with potential. Peja could be a superstar in the league, Wallace and postell have potential and Cleaves is a young PG drafted i nthe mid 1st round.
Lineup: Cleaves, Wagner, Peja, Wallace, Diop

Why the Knicks do it:
'Dre...nuff said.
Then we sign rodney rogers with our entire 4.5
Lineup: miller, houston, rogers, dice, iligauskas

[Edited by - NYBAller on 07/21/2002 12:47:46]
nice, and fair.

plus, peja is expedable with hedo's playoff breakout.
nyballer
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7/21/2002  3:07 PM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by nyballer:

The Kings want to win now, Webber and Spree are tight, so how about...
Knicks trade: Spree, Thomas, Postell
Knicks receive: Miller, Iligauskas
Kings trade: Peja, Gerald Wallace, Mateen Cleaves
Kings receive: Spree, Thomas, Hill
Cavs trade: Miller, Tyrone Hill, Iligauskas
Cavs receive: Peja, Wallace, Cleaves, Postell

Why the Kings do it:
the Kings are challenging the lakers now, and Spree is an excellent defender, good scorer, and thrives in the Kings style of play. He defends better than Peja as well. And they get two big PF's that can rebound - against shaq, the more big bodies you have, the better off you are. They could have a lineup like bibby, spree, thomas, webber, divac

Why the Cavs do it:
They want young players with potential. Peja could be a superstar in the league, Wallace and postell have potential and Cleaves is a young PG drafted i nthe mid 1st round.
Lineup: Cleaves, Wagner, Peja, Wallace, Diop

Why the Knicks do it:
'Dre...nuff said.
Then we sign rodney rogers with our entire 4.5
Lineup: miller, houston, rogers, dice, iligauskas

[Edited by - NYBAller on 07/21/2002 12:47:46]
nice, and fair.

plus, peja is expedable with hedo's playoff breakout.
Exactly, once Peja went down the Kings held their own and took LA to game 7 so they dont NEED him, and Sprewell fits in better IMO. But peja is young and good for a team like the cavs...they can have their top two players (wagner/peja) and a bunch of role players... think of their future team:
Cleaves, Wagner, Peja, Postell, Wallace, Diop, Mihm, Boozer...in the future they could be good. Add to that Lebron James since they are in the sweepstakes... And Peja has shown with a decent cast he can carry a team (look at the kings when webber was hurt)
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/21/2002  3:27 PM
The Kings were in the Western Conf. Finals last year and played the Lakers harder than anyone in last year's playoffs. That's exactly why Sacramento WON'T do this trade. They aren't thinking about much else aside from re-signing Bibby now anyway.

All of a sudden, everybody is trying to come up with the next Spree rumor that, like ALL the other rumors thus far, will get shot down to hell (thank God for that!).
Let's not get carried away by all the Spree rumors. If he ends up staying, we'll still cheer for him (more than any other player, like it has been) at the Garden. If we can do that and at the same time not look like hypocrites, it'll be a plus.

No one is able to come up with a trade without Sprewell in it? Oh, well. So much for creativity. No one was able to call the McDyess trade, either. Why? The media didn't talk about it...
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
BigSm00th
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7/21/2002  3:35 PM
"No one was able to call the McDyess trade, either. Why? The media didn't talk about it..."-Exactly my thoughts. I think a trade will come completely out of left field or not at all. I was recently at baseball camp and our special guest was Bobby Valentine, and he said that all sports news (whether it be baseball, basketball, football, or hockey) regarding trades is usually 80 to 90% false, so I feel that if there is a trade, it'll surprise us.
#Knickstaps
OasisBU
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7/21/2002  3:41 PM
You have to be smoking something if you think they are going to trade Peja, or any other piece of that winning combo anytime soon. Spree is not better then Peja I dont care what anyone says, I love Spree to death but Peja is so much better - he is younger, scores more on a team with more shooters on it, and he is lethal, confident, and consistent. Spree has many of those traits but he is inconsistent on a team that isnt even close to the Kings. Sac will kepp the same lineup because face it, they are going to keep winning with them and they will get a ring sometime soon. It is dump to even mention trades involving this team, they dont need anything - just a way to beat Shaq. All their positions are filled with solid players.

Who cares if Hedo played well? They also learned the kings can win without Webber because Peja steps up. So trade Webber? Ridiculous. Lets be honest about what this team can trade for, who can actually come here and contribute - I am sick of this "Vin Baker will help!" he is fat "Peja, the kings dont want him" - are you crazy? According to some people on this board we can trade for any player in the NBA for Spree + scrubs. Get real man, we love Spree he is awesome, but he isnt bringing Sheed, Webber, Peja, or anyone in that category to NY. And I would much rather see him in an NY uniform then ship him off Ewing style.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/21/2002  4:44 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

"No one was able to call the McDyess trade, either. Why? The media didn't talk about it..."-Exactly my thoughts. I think a trade will come completely out of left field or not at all. I was recently at baseball camp and our special guest was Bobby Valentine, and he said that all sports news (whether it be baseball, basketball, football, or hockey) regarding trades is usually 80 to 90% false, so I feel that if there is a trade, it'll surprise us.

Hey Bigsmooth, we are on the same page, man....
I just believe I'd see more diverse creativity on these boards, but maybe now that all those (now Moot) rumor threads can be closed, we can devise more unique (like the McDyess trade) transaction scenarios (like this thread- it's different, for a change!), instead of pining away regarding media-regurgitated smokescreen rumors.

Since RealGM has updated the Trade Checker, I'll try my hand at some of those "left-field", but workable and rational deals we need to see more of...Some blockbuster ideas like this thread, and other basic peripheral trades that can fill holes in our roster as well.

Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
alex4germany
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7/21/2002  6:34 PM
So the Knicks get a Center and a PG and they give away 2 SF and a PF. Who`s going to be the SF in this new line-up? Who`s going to be Ilgauskas back-up? He`s good for 20 minutes. Thats all `cause of his injuries. I don`t like this trade at all because it`ll fix one problem and cause 2 others.
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
Vmart
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7/21/2002  7:06 PM
Posted by nyballer:

The Kings want to win now, Webber and Spree are tight, so how about...
Knicks trade: Spree, Thomas, Postell
Knicks receive: Miller, Iligauskas
Kings trade: Peja, Gerald Wallace, Mateen Cleaves
Kings receive: Spree, Thomas, Hill
Cavs trade: Miller, Tyrone Hill, Iligauskas
Cavs receive: Peja, Wallace, Cleaves, Postell

Why the Kings do it:
the Kings are challenging the lakers now, and Spree is an excellent defender, good scorer, and thrives in the Kings style of play. He defends better than Peja as well. And they get two big PF's that can rebound - against shaq, the more big bodies you have, the better off you are. They could have a lineup like bibby, spree, thomas, webber, divac

Why the Cavs do it:
They want young players with potential. Peja could be a superstar in the league, Wallace and postell have potential and Cleaves is a young PG drafted i nthe mid 1st round.
Lineup: Cleaves, Wagner, Peja, Wallace, Diop

Why the Knicks do it:
'Dre...nuff said.
Then we sign rodney rogers with our entire 4.5
Lineup: miller, houston, rogers, dice, iligauskas

[Edited by - NYBAller on 07/21/2002 12:47:46]

Peja is a player that has reached the elite category of players he is a do it all player that was injured during the finals. If healthy the Kings win anyway in my book though it doesn't count they beat the Lakers. The league rigged the western finals so we wouldn't see two small market teams in the finals.
nwny
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7/21/2002  9:14 PM
All of you in favor of this trade are on CRACK!!!! The two times the Kings played the Knicks this past season, in one game Webber was out, and in the other Peja was out. In the playoffs he was hurt. All these things add up to most Knick fans have no idea how good this guy is. Imagine if Allan Houston had a quicker release, shot 48% from the field and 41% from 3-point land. Imagine if he could defend, go to basket with authority, had no fear of anyone, moved without the ball, had a decent handle and grabbed 5 boards a game. If AH did all that he would be Peja. I like Spree, and AH, trust me when I tell that the Kings wouldn’t take both of them for Peja. He’s that good. He could easily lead the league in scoring if Sac didn’t have so many other scorers. Other reasons why this deal is dumb:
1-Why would the Kings screw with their team chemistry. The fact that Spree and Webber are tight is not going to put a single point on the board, or grab a dingle rebound.
2-Peja is better than Spree, Thomas and Hill put together. Kings get screwed in this deal.
3-Peja is good defender. Spree is better but not enough to make up for the fact that Peja offense is on another planet compared to Spree.
4-In your ridicules scenario you would have Webber and Thomas on the floor at the same time. Who would play SF? Neither of them can!
5-Thomas, and Hill can’t defend Shac any better than Pollard, Funderburke or any of the other players at the end of the Kings bench.

nyballer ---please tell me you were only joking.
Caseloads---what playoff games were you watching? Hedo is one of the reasons the Kings lost. He cracked under the pressure of filling in for Peja. Hedo shot 40% in the playoffs.
WOODMANnYk
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7/21/2002  9:35 PM
nwny is correct!!! Kings would never trade their 2nd best player on the team(PejA). This guy is a lethal shooter and has one of the fastest releases in the NBA.. THats one of the reasons why the Kings ended up with the best record in the nBA(61wins). This boy is bad!!HE's only 25 and will get better. It's too bad he wasn't 100% vs the Lakers.. Imagine if he had played the whole lakers/Sac series, it would've been a different story.The kings didn't have their full squad vs the lakers but that is part of the game. This Peja is better than H20 and Spree, no doubt..

Why the Kings do it:
the Kings are challenging the lakers now, and Spree is an excellent defender, good scorer, and thrives in the Kings style of play. He defends better than Peja as well. And they get two big PF's that can rebound - against shaq, the more big bodies you have, the better off you are. They could have a lineup like bibby, spree, thomas, webber, divac(nyballer)....

You seemed to forget that kings do have Doug Christie(defensive specialist with ball handling skills)

Why the Knicks do it:
'Dre...nuff said.
Then we sign rodney rogers with our entire 4.5
Lineup: miller, houston, rogers, dice, iligauskas (nyballer)

Knicks already had their probelms picking undersized players, we don't need another one in Rodney rogers who really is a PF. C'mon, we already have the smallest frontcourt in the NBA...



The Future. GO KNICKS!
ClydeDaGlide
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7/22/2002  9:49 AM
Posted by knicksbb10:

nwny is correct!!! Kings would never trade their 2nd best player on the team(PejA). This guy is a lethal shooter and has one of the fastest releases in the NBA.. THats one of the reasons why the Kings ended up with the best record in the nBA(61wins). This boy is bad!!HE's only 25 and will get better. It's too bad he wasn't 100% vs the Lakers.. Imagine if he had played the whole lakers/Sac series, it would've been a different story.The kings didn't have their full squad vs the lakers but that is part of the game. This Peja is better than H20 and Spree, no doubt..

Why the Kings do it:
the Kings are challenging the lakers now, and Spree is an excellent defender, good scorer, and thrives in the Kings style of play. He defends better than Peja as well. And they get two big PF's that can rebound - against shaq, the more big bodies you have, the better off you are. They could have a lineup like bibby, spree, thomas, webber, divac(nyballer)....

You seemed to forget that kings do have Doug Christie(defensive specialist with ball handling skills)

Why the Knicks do it:
'Dre...nuff said.
Then we sign rodney rogers with our entire 4.5
Lineup: miller, houston, rogers, dice, iligauskas (nyballer)

Knicks already had their probelms picking undersized players, we don't need another one in Rodney rogers who really is a PF. C'mon, we already have the smallest frontcourt in the NBA...





Wow, lets not go nuts. Peja is a good player, but he isn't great. He isn't even the second best player on his team. Bibby is a much stronger player, both offensivly and defensivly. It's not like we're talking KG here, this is Peja. He's got flair, and game, but he is far from nwny's description of him: "Imagine if Allan Houston had a quicker release, shot 48% from the field and 41% from 3-point land. Imagine if he could defend, go to basket with authority, had no fear of anyone, moved without the ball, had a decent handle and grabbed 5 boards a game."...Please, this trade may be a little slanted, but don't act like Peja is one of the best in the league...
I came here to drink beer and kick some ass, and we're almost out of beer...
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/22/2002  10:10 AM
By the way, IF Peja was as good as you guys' PR department make him out to be, then why wasn't he the one who put SAC over the top versus the Lakers (and don't start the "he was hurt" stuff. If he's as spectacular as you are making him out to be, then he would've pulled a Willis Reed and played through the injury to make his team win)? Please, let's not blow this guy up.
" Imagine if Allan Houston had a quicker release, shot 48% from the field and 41% from 3-point land. Imagine if he could defend, go to basket with authority, had no fear of anyone, moved without the ball, had a decent handle and grabbed 5 boards a game. If AH did all that he would be Peja. I like Spree, and AH, trust me when I tell that the Kings wouldn’t take both of them for Peja."

Crack, you say? Don't get high on your own supply, fella. I am suprised you said this, nwny, because usually you make sensible comments. Peja is soft, firstly, and both Houston and Spree have more Heart than him. You left that out of your little comparison.

Let's keep things in perspective...
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
OasisBU
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7/22/2002  11:37 AM
While we shouldnt overhype him, we shouldnt discount him either. He is a better player then what the Knicks have to offer and everyone knows that. He is in the Western conference and still puts up huge #s on a team that is loaded with weapons, to me that says it all.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
Dan1078
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7/22/2002  12:03 PM
Hey, Peja scored less than 2 ppg more than Spree last year. He
is a better shooter, but Spree is the better defender and slasher.
BigSm00th
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7/22/2002  12:48 PM
"Wow, lets not go nuts. Peja is a good player, but he isn't great. He isn't even the second best player on his team. Bibby is a much stronger player, both offensivly and defensivly."-Bibby played tremendous in the playoffs, but he isn't as good as Peja was when he as healthy during the regular season. Look at the numbers:
SPG-Adv. Peja (21.2) over Bibby (13.7)
APG-Adv. Bibby (5.0) over Peja (2.5)
RPG-Adv. Peja (5.3) over Bibby (2.8)
SPG-Adv. Peja (1.14) over Bibby (1.09)
BPG-Adv. Peja (0.20) over Bibby (0.19)
FG%-Adv. Peja (.484) over Bibby (.453)
FT%-Adv. Peja (.876) over Bibby (.803)
3p%-Adv. Peja (.416) over Bibby (.370)

So, Bibby dishes the rock well, but Peja is better at everything else.

"By the way, IF Peja was as good as you guys' PR department make him out to be, then why wasn't he the one who put SAC over the top versus the Lakers (and don't start the "he was hurt" stuff. If he's as spectacular as you are making him out to be, then he would've pulled a Willis Reed and played through the injury to make his team win)? Please, let's not blow this guy up."-Hardcore, we usually agree, but this is ridiculous. Pull a Willis Reed, it's not like everyone on the planet can play through pain like Willis Reed, who is a legend and hall-of-famer. Besides, the Knicks relied on Reed much more then the Kings did on Peja in that series because the Kings were so talented. Look at Peja's playoff numbers:
1st round- 20.5 ppg, 6.0 rpg
2nd round- 15.3 ppg, 8.0 rpg
Conf. Finals (got hurt)- 6.7 ppg, 5.0 rpg
It was clearly his injury.

And even if he was as good as Sprewell, why would the Kings shake up chemistry when they were a few bad calls away from the Finals?
#Knickstaps
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/22/2002  2:22 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

"Hardcore, we usually agree, but this is ridiculous. Pull a Willis Reed, it's not like everyone on the planet can play through pain like Willis Reed, who is a legend and hall-of-famer. Besides, the Knicks relied on Reed much more then the Kings did on Peja in that series because the Kings were so talented.

I mentioned Willis Reed because nwny had stated that Peja is better than Spree and Houston (by saying that "the Kings wouldn’t take both of them for Peja"), like the guy is some kind of NBA legend (which is also why I made the PR Dept. reference). All I did was make a flash comparison to a REAL legend. As for the Kings not needing Peja as much as NYK needed Reed, well... Reed played hurt- his team won, Peja sat down till it was too late- his team lost (team talent and referees notwithstanding).
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
BigSm00th
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7/22/2002  2:26 PM
The PR comment was pretty funny. I see where you're coming from, I was just trying to show everyone that Peja is a pretty good player, better then Bibby at least.
#Knickstaps
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/22/2002  2:43 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

The PR comment was pretty funny. I see where you're coming from, I was just trying to show everyone that Peja is a pretty good player, better then Bibby at least.

Peja better than Bibby?.... I think Bibby is like Mr. Clutch and Mr. Go-to-guy on that team. Bibby is the leader, who put the team on his back and showed heart when Chris Webber's was having cardiac arrest.

Bibby was also the man to take the big shot. Webber passed the ball to him in the clutch. He hit BIG shots, while Chris, Vlade, Doug, and Peja were all in need of the Heimlich maneuver.

Peja is good, but Bibby has that flair, heart and killer instinct that you just can't teach... Bibby is the Sacramento Kings. He will get the max this summer because the Kings know that too.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
nwny
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7/22/2002  2:45 PM
ClydeDaGlide: Peja's numbers speak for themselves. According to the numbers, he IS the second best player on the team, Period. He is shooting 48% from the field and 41% from 3, and he is grabbing 5 boards a game. These numbers say he’s one of the best SG’s in the league. It's not my opinion, it's the facts. What are you basing your statements on?

HARDCOREKNICKSFAN: Only three times in the history of the NBA has a seriously injured player, pull a “Willis Reed” type of performance. 1-Reed. 2-Isahia Thomas 3-Jordan. What’s makes it so special is that it’s rare. If Peja had put a “Willis Reed” that would put him in a class with the aforementioned three. And he’s not, so I would never say that, and I didn’t.
Second Peja is not soft. I have “NBA league pass” so I see more than my fair share of NBA games. Trust me when I tell you if you saw more of him you wouldn’t say he soft. No one has ever accused him of being soft. Where are the facts to back this up? Spree more heart than Peja? Umm, I’ll give you that one. Houston? Come on. Allan himself wouldn’t even make that statement.

Dan1078: Spree is a better defender, but not so much so as to out-weight the fact that Peja is better all around player.
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