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Marbury last 5 games
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BRIGGS
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12/27/2005  1:34 PM
pts 20.6
ast 5.6
reb 2.6
ste 2.0
to 3.2
fg% 47.2
ft 32/40 avg 8 per game
ft% 80
min 37.8


again, im not a big marbury guy obviously, but if everyone was contributing like Marbury, we'd be winning games. Its more like the *inconsistencies* of almost everyone else and team defense as a whole that's been killing us.

I'm not saying Marbury is the right guy for this team, but he isnt the primary cause of the problems. I think he's been messed around with by Brown and frankly, sans Frye, everyone else has been drastically inconsistent or plain ole stinks. I cant equate how much of a bust and how badly q-rich hurts this team for starters. If Marbury drops his head going to the bench or sulks in frusteration, and while he shouldnt,he's clearly rattled by playing with inferior teammates.

the balance and mix of players in general is so, so bad, that it has no chance. they may have to do some addition by subtraction, so-called or as perceived *taking less*.

the first thing that has to happen is management and the coach have to get on the same page in terms of style of play and who fits, deosnt fit and who may fit from elsewhere. And really this conversation should be held by a new guy, a guy who takes over steve mills position, perhaps from the spurs or suns
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Bippity10
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12/27/2005  1:40 PM
He's not playing great, turnovers are high. I'm okay with the assist numbers considering the line-up we have and the fact that him and crawford are the only guys on our team that can be considered "basket makers". I think he's playing hard. I think he does need to learn a thing or two from Nate about leadership. We bash Nate for being arrogant and stupid but is there any question that the team followed his lead last night?

But I have to agree, just because Nate played well doesn't mean Steph should have been boo'd. Unless of course the next time Nate plays like an idiot we then decide to cheer STeph.
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nyballer
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12/27/2005  1:43 PM
his stats are nice but the guy has been putting up stats every year in the league and has never been a winner, and I never really understood until this year. He stagnates the offense too much; I can count on my finger the number of times he would find a cutter or find someone open near the basket. The pick and roll/penetrate and dish are the only plays he runs because he can finish on those; he can get his 6 assists from those but assists don't tell the story. When Crawford is running the point people are moving a lot more, everyone is touching the ball, and guys in general seem like they put more effort into it. The other big knock on stephon that has been talked about a lot already is his lack of leadership.
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Bippity10
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12/27/2005  1:54 PM
Posted by nyballer:

his stats are nice but the guy has been putting up stats every year in the league and has never been a winner, and I never really understood until this year.

Can't we say the same about craw?

I just hope that people will like me
gunsnewing
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12/27/2005  1:56 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nyballer:

his stats are nice but the guy has been putting up stats every year in the league and has never been a winner, and I never really understood until this year.

Can't we say the same about craw?


crawford is 25 and doesn't make $20mm a year
nyballer
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12/27/2005  2:03 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nyballer:

his stats are nice but the guy has been putting up stats every year in the league and has never been a winner, and I never really understood until this year.

Can't we say the same about craw?


crawford is 25 and doesn't make $20mm a year

Agreed, and my point is that crawford seems to be buying into the system more; maybe marbury is trying, but i think crawford is more likely to change and more likely to succeed in this system.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
Bippity10
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12/27/2005  2:04 PM
Again, what does the money have to do with anything? Craw makes what 8 milliong to be a career 40% shooter that doesn't play D. All the players have flaws. Why is it we single out Marbs?

Nate on a 2 on 1 fastbreak last night dribbled the ball to the middle of the floor. I boo'd Marbs.
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nyballer
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12/27/2005  2:06 PM
Crawford is younger, has been in the league less than Marbury and this year has shown the biggest improvement. He is trying harder on defense and i think he shows more leadership on the court. He understands he has to be an extension of larry brown on the court and I think he is starting to do that.Last year, I was fed up with crawford's bad shot selection and was a supporter of marbury, but the more I see this year's games, the more I realize that crawford might be a better fit long term.
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Bobby
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12/27/2005  2:07 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Again, what does the money have to do with anything? Craw makes what 8 milliong to be a career 40% shooter that doesn't play D. All the players have flaws. Why is it we single out Marbs?

Nate on a 2 on 1 fastbreak last night dribbled the ball to the middle of the floor. I boo'd Marbs.

for the same reason h20 was singled out

"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Bippity10
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12/27/2005  2:14 PM
NYballer: Okay back to my point. Craw has done all those things you speak(although I disagree about his D). I think he is trying. I think he has worked on his shot selection. He may be someone here long term while Steph is not. All that being said why does that mean we need to boo Steph? Can't we applaud both of them for playing hard and very well the last two games?
I just hope that people will like me
nyballer
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12/27/2005  2:19 PM
My point wasn't about booing steph, it was more about how we should move him, but I think stephon is being booed because he isn't a leader, and if he wants to be the franchise player or believes he is the best point guard in the game, then he should be leading our team to more wins. I think a lot more of it could be that fans were booing because the team looks a lot worse when he is out there; maybe not a direct attack at stephon, but we did play better when he was on the bench. I think the sentiment against AD is more unjustified, because he shows a lot of effort and pride; I have to disagree about stephon playing hard because he gets beat on defense by every opposing point guard, or won't put in the effort to fight over screens consistently.
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MS
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12/27/2005  2:22 PM
I wouldl like to see steph moved, but he is making some nice passes but the team is just not converting.....I would love to see someone like Wilcox on the team he would be a huge asset around the basket i wish there was a way to get him
OldFan
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12/27/2005  2:23 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

NYballer: Okay back to my point. Craw has done all those things you speak(although I disagree about his D). I think he is trying. I think he has worked on his shot selection. He may be someone here long term while Steph is not. All that being said why does that mean we need to boo Steph? Can't we applaud both of them for playing hard and very well the last two games?


I agree on the booing. Why boo your own players - it certainly isn't going to make them play better.

However - why can't it be that neither Craw or Marbs is very good?
djsunyc
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12/27/2005  2:32 PM
the only way it will work is if we move everyone and get a legit PF/C to play with him. not curry or frye. somebody already in the here and now like brand or KG. otherwise marbury's #'s are being wasted here. another roster overhaul to play with steph? so in essence, build around him? well, we either have to do that or we have to move steph. isiah needs to pick one and stick with it b/c that would, you know, BE A PLAN!!!
Bobby
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12/27/2005  2:37 PM
brand, kg?...... just bring artest, problem solved

"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Bippity10
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12/27/2005  2:37 PM
Nyballer:

1.)Steph is not being boo'd because he is not a leader. if that was the case we'd boo everyone on the team. He is being boo'd because he is the star of the team and we expect him to bring us titles. It's the same thing we did to Patrick, Allan, now Steph and whoever the next highest paid star is that doesn't bring a title.

2.) It was a direct attact at Steph.

3.) Watch the game again slowly. In the first half Crawford was not even playing D.

4.)We cut the lead to 6 and with Marbs on the bench turned the ball over 4 times in 5 possessions to help NJ get the lead back up to 14. Without those mistakes we may have actually been in the game at the end. If Nate doesn't go 5 for 5 on his first 5 threes we aren't in that game. A lot happens on the court.

5.) I don't remember Kidd penetrating at wil when anyone guarded him. I do remember Carter and Jefferson going off and I'm pretty sure Marbs wasn't guarding them. Shouldn't we have directed our anger at their men? Or was that somehow the magical Marbs pouting on the sideline that hurt their self-esteem so much that they couldn't play D.

In Knickworld no one is held accountable for their actions accept for the star. OUr scrubs can suck and we will immediately blame the star so why get better. Then we get a coach that decides to beat these players down and there are some that suggest getting rid of him two. IN KNICKWORLD THE ONLY PLAYERS WE LOVE US SOME ROLE PLAYERS.

6.) I am having the same conversations I used to have on RumorTalk when discussing Ewing. On MSG when discussing HOuston. Now it's Marbs. I am 100% correct when I say soon it will be Curry and Frye and if Crawford doesn't watch out, if he keeps improving, it may be him.
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Bippity10
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12/27/2005  2:38 PM
If KG had led us to nothing just like he has in Minny, we'd be booing him too!!!
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Caseloads
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12/27/2005  2:40 PM
better to move steph for casell and picks or something...
Bobby
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12/27/2005  2:40 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

If KG had led us to nothing just like he has in Minny, we'd be booing him too!!!

you got that right...this is new york

"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
SlimPack
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12/27/2005  2:41 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Nyballer:

1.)Steph is not being boo'd because he is not a leader. if that was the case we'd boo everyone on the team. He is being boo'd because he is the star of the team and we expect him to bring us titles. It's the same thing we did to Patrick, Allan, now Steph and whoever the next highest paid star is that doesn't bring a title.

thats not why fans are booing him. obviously the knicks are not going to win a title this year. the reason fans booed him last night is becuase nate highlighted the difference between a player that leads by a example and one who doesn't.
Posted by Bippity10:

In Knickworld no one is held accountable for their actions accept for the star. OUr scrubs can suck and we will immediately blame the star so why get better. Then we get a coach that decides to beat these players down and there are some that suggest getting rid of him two. IN KNICKWORLD THE ONLY PLAYERS WE LOVE US SOME ROLE PLAYERS.

this isnt true at all, fans just like heart and hustle witch nate did last night. just a few nights ago nate himself was getting booed, becuase he turned the ball over too much while he was in.

[Edited by - slimpack on 12-27-2005 2:45 PM]
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Marbury last 5 games
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