Watching Knicks101.

Couple things are becoming apparent to me.

You don't even really notice Harper out there. You don't even think about it. That's probly b/c he did his job to a T. Got rid of the ball, got out of the way, played some D, directed traffic.

First of all, you DO NOT trade Lee or Nate. I know that's a random comment. But you just don't, not even for Artest, b/c gaining Artest at the expense of 1 of those 2 guys will hurt us in the long run......trust me. We NEED Nate Robinson and David Lee. NEED. They are old school "dawgs".

I don't think I like Frye in a starting role. Not a ruff-em-up, knock-niggaz-down type PF, which I firmly believe we need next to Eddy Curry. And why you ask, is Eddy Curry more important than Channing Frye? Watch Patrick Ewing.....and tell me you don't think in 2 years he won't be to us what Pat was to the Knicks 10 years ago (minus the leadership).

Yes.....I'm serious.


And you don't trade Crawford. He looks real good for us every few games, and even hits some big baskets for us.....but tell me John Starks didn't do that and more? The only reason I previously pulled for Jamal in the starting lineup is b/c we're so bad and he plays so good sometimes.

I think he's perfect off the bench for about 30+ MPG playing both guard spots.


That's our bench for the future right there -- Lee, Nate, and Crawford. Say hello to them, b/c that's all we need.

Ariza's good, no question, but he's just not that savvy of a player. He's a horse. And that in itself should give us some good value in return for him.

Butler's expendable, but I can see him having a role off the bench in the future. So he's up in the air in my eyes.

I don't think Zeke will trade Frye either btw. Not now, and probly not in the future.

But like I said, I don't like him in a starting role. I don't even like him getting more than 30 MPG in the future playing both spots in the paint (although that's already alot).

So forgive me....that's the revised future bench for NY -- Nate, Lee, JC, and Frye. Everyone else doesn't matter.


NOW.....onto the starting lineup. It's weird, but Marbury reminds me alot of Starks now that I think about it. Both play similarly at the 2-guard spot. I really wish for this franchise's sake that Brown would just move Steph to the 2-guard permanently, or just trade him. It's not worth trying to force a circle block into a square space. You might be able to make it JUST fit, but it won't look good, and it won't be even close to ideal.

So Marbury creates a crossroads for us. B/c at SG, I love him in the AI role. At PG, I freakin hate him, no matter how good he plays. It's just not good for the team, no matter how you slice it. Score-first PG's suck. And don't bring up Isiah, b/c he didn't play PG for a whole game....hell....barely half.

But Marbury's no Isiah. Play him at SG like during the 1st half of that GS game. Let him maximize his talents and minimize his flaws. I would love that.

If Brown doesn't like that b/c of the simple fact that it will be 2 hard to find a tall, GOOD, pass-first PG, then by all means, deal Steph.

Why? So you can change the dynamic of the backcourt. Have a regular ol' pass-first, defensive PG, and a SG that can hit a damn shot.

Starting SF SHOULD be Ron Artest. No question. If not him, I don't know who. I just can't think of a way to "replace" him, b/c we need a defensively strong SF who can hit a shot. Not many like that.

At PF.....we need a bruiser. Not an Oakley...b/c his weakside help didn't exist.....more like someone that can hit an open 12 footer, but who mostly prides himself on general D and rebounding. Not a Ben Wallace, but you get the idea. A poor, poor man's Ben Wallace would even be acceptable IMO. It all depends on how good your SF is. Can he rebound and block shots like a Ron Artest/Shawn Marion can? Or is he slightly less than that....


I think the future of this team lies through Eddy Curry, our future SF ( or lack thereof), and our bench. Ohh....our bench is gonna be good....REAL good.


That....and Mr. Larry Brown.




P.S. I DO think Q Rich can have a future here. He's not 1 of those big pieces on a team, but he does manage to blend in and contribute when he's playing even somewhat well. I hope he eventually breaks out of this funk and works on his lateral movement. If he can start finding his role and playing it to a T, I can easily see him getting a consistent 20 MPG off the bench in the future.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 12-24-2005 5:55 PM]

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 12-24-2005 6:35 PM]

A poor man's ben wallace, like Kurt Thomas?

I was watching too. it's amazing how our defense is a joke compared to those days. they played tough D on every possession and you never felt like the Knicks were out of it. and the Garden was rockin! and even the broadcast was phenomenal with Marv and Johnny Hoops. Both were so much more animated than they are now. I guess they're bored with all the losing

I know exactly what you mean

Whoa Killa......

First of all.....when did you "tell my ass" that?

And second, I remember that game pretty vividly actually, b/c that was the game I became convinced Steph had to play the 2-guard spot. And for pretty much that ENTIRE 1st half, with the exception of a few set plays that Steph ran at point, he was playing SG.

You could make the arguement that both him and Crawford were mixing it up, but all I'll say is that Steph was NEVER dominating the ball like he usually does. If he was playing PG at all that half, it wasn't in the fashion he usually does.

It wasn't until the 2nd half that Brown went back to the typical Marbury-walk-the-ball-up PG play...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 12-24-2005 7:20 PM]

yeah I'm sure that was the reason Allan and LJ where brought in. I started watched religiously after those moves were made. I don't remember the 95 team too well. The team wasn't talanted enough to get over the hump but watching this game I was amazed at how good Mason was. Was it just that game or did he do it consistently. I'm guessing he was an inconsistent player. But man the guy had some serious moves and amazing ballhandling ability and quickness for his size! He scored a season high 26 or more points in that game they said.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 12-24-2005 7:46 PM]

Posted by bobs3304:

Whoa Killa......

First of all.....when did you "tell my ass" that?

And second, I remember that game pretty vividly actually, b/c that was the game I became convinced Steph had to play the 2-guard spot. And for pretty much that ENTIRE 1st half, with the exception of a few set plays that Steph ran at point, he was playing SG.

You could make the arguement that both him and Crawford were mixing it up, but all I'll say is that Steph was NEVER dominating the ball like he usually does. If he was playing PG at all that half, it wasn't in the fashion he usually does.

It wasn't until the 2nd half that Brown went back to the typical Marbury-walk-the-ball-up PG play...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 12-24-2005 7:20 PM]

Rembering the game vivedly is one thing, having it on tape and watching again is another.
This is the thread I created shortly after that game because many people kept saying that and it irritated me. http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=12548

In closing, what you remembered or how your mind changed was evidently based on a misinterpretation of the events.

I try to correct that every time I see it because it is a misnomer. Thats all.

Posted by bobs3304:

Ewing wasn't Jesus Christ himself.

yes he was, he played jesus christ in his 4th grade class play. man, check your stats before spewing garbage...

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by bobs3304:

Watch Patrick Ewing.....and tell me you don't think in 2 years he won't be to us what Pat was to the Knicks 10 years ago (minus the leadership).

Yes.....I'm serious.

ewing was the centerpiece to the team BOTH offensively AND defensively and performed at a high level CONSISTENTLY. he was able to tell teammates what to do and we had players that completely trusted him and deferred to him. ewing was known as a WARRIOR as he inspired his teammates by constantly going out there and playing hurt and exhibited an unreal work ethic.

in his 5 years in the league, eddy curry has not shown ANY of those qualities...NONE. can eddy curry become a centerpiece to the team offensively? possibly. i think we can get him the ball and he has the physical tools to dominate. but does he have the mental tools to sustain that? ewing added moves to his repetoire every single year. curry has NEVER been known as a guy that brought it in practice nor kept himself in the best shape possible.

so when you say that in 2 years, curry could be to us like ewing was to those teams, you are banking that within 2 years, his ENTIRE mental approach to the game changes. he's 22, he's a baby, and it could happen as all of us grow as people, especially in our 20's. BUT at this point, it's nothing by HOPE as there is no tangible evidence to back it up.

thats the only thing i disagree with. maybe they were very subtle changes since he got worse and worse each year physically(after they lost to the rockets in 94 you start to really see him slow down the following seasons)

Lee is one of our best defensive players, and somehow he gets very little PT.

Curry & Frye starting now and for the next 10 years is a must !!!
Here are some examples:

ADMIRAL & DUNCAN
PARISH & MCHALE
EWING & OAKLEY
HAKEEM & HORRY