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No cure for Steph infection (article)
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Knight
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12/16/2005  12:43 PM
By Jon Heyman

December 16, 2005

Everybody's feeling down at 33rd Street and Seventh Avenue right now. It's not just Larry Brown who's down. It's anyone associated with the Knicks, from the stat keepers to the camera people, the front-office folks to the concessionaires, the p.a. guys to the p.r. guys, the players to the purveyors (that one's with a nod to Clyde).

Everyone's so down, they're thinking of changing the name from The Garden to The Doldrums.

The way I see it, there are only two ways to lift holiday spirits. One is to acquire a savior.

The other is to get rid of the last savior.

Yes, the time has come to move Stephon Marbury, the Maestro of Mope, on out of here.

Brown didn't have to spell it out yet again in yesterday's soliloquy, but the Knicks are in the beginning stages of rebuilding. The last thing an embryonic team needs is a pseudo-star who cares most about his scoring average and least about everyone else. As long as Marbury and his vast collection of headgear towels are here, the face of the franchise is forever a frown.

The Knicks won't win a thing as long as Marbury is the centerpiece, and that's all he's ever wanted to be. That was clear from his NBA origins when he chafed at playing second fiddle to all-time talent Kevin Garnett, and it's just as clear today, when he complains about his new role to distribute. Sure he's a hog, but at least he knows it.

Marbury has a lot better chance of spoiling the team's youth program than enhancing it, like 100 times better. Whatever you think of Isiah Thomas' moves so far, three of Isiah's draft choices look promising, while the fourth, Channing Frye, already is productive. But kids are impressionable. What kind of impression does Marbury make when he trudges to the scorer's table, towel over head, as if he's headed for death row.

He sets a crummy example before he steps on the court, then worsens things with his uniquely sad-sack, selfish style of play. He makes $19 million and acts as if it's torture all the way. What sort of example does this set?

He gets upset when he isn't getting his minutes and points, yet clams up when the team isn't getting it done. Barely two weeks into the season, he signaled that he'd had it with Brown's time-tested system. What kind of example does that set?

Phil Jackson went back to L.A. for the sun and fun, but also to stay away from the real "uncoachable" player, which is Marbury, not Kobe Bryant. As Jackson's good friend and biographer Charley Rosen presciently remarked back then to Newsday, "The only way Marbury ever improved a team is to leave it."

Brown's own problems with Marbury at the 2004 Olympics in Athens were well chronicled. But suffice to say, there's no reason to think Brown likes Marbury any more on American soil. Brown shows what he thinks by frequently keeping Marbury and his terrycloth headgear benched during crunch time, and also by recently remarking that they "don't have a good head on the floor," a direct head slap at Marbury.

One year Marbury's telling us he's "the best" point guard in the league, the next he's declaring that he doesn't want to be a point guard. He came home billed as "the All-Star point guard" the Knicks haven't had since Walt Frazier. Now he is neither All-Star nor point guard.

Statistically, Marbury's second-closest comparable going into the year he became a Knick, according to Basketball-Reference.com, was, you guessed it, Isiah Thomas. Any other way, they are nothing alike. For instance, we've seen Zeke's smile.

Thomas politely declined to comment through a spokesperson (as opposed to Marbury, who simply declined).

Once Isiah clears the hurdle of admitting his mistake, there's no good reason not to do whatever it takes to get Marbury out of town. Seeing the diminishing productivity and $73 million left on his contract, you'd think it's impossible to be rid of him. Maybe so, but all sorts of bums and bad contracts are traded.

Just don't expect much in return. Marbury was traded in past lives for the likes of Ray Allen and Jason Kidd. But last time, when Isiah executed what was hailed as a steal in these parts (sorry about that), about all he had to surrender was Howard and some Eisley brothers - no-names, draft choices and international projects that didn't pan out.

That's OK. Beggars can't be choosers. Give us your overpriced, your infirm, your malcontents. Whatever, anything to get the highest-paid towel man out of town.

What a downer

Stephon Marbury's scoring average and assists are down this season compared to his career averages:

2005-06 Career Diff.

Points 17.9 20.5 -2.6

Rebounds 3.7 3.1 + 0.6

Assists 6.6 8.2 - 1.6

Turnovers 2.9 3.2 - 0.3

Steals 1.15 1.28 - 0.13

FG Pct. .438 .435 +.003

3-Pt. Pct. .231 .319 -.088

FT Pct. .727 .789 -.062
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
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SlimPack
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12/16/2005  12:49 PM
well he is rebounding more. Im about ready to see this team go in a new non-marbury direction
attaboy2005
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12/16/2005  1:00 PM
Maestro of Mope!!.

I love it, that's what Marbs is, Debbie Downer!.
franco12
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12/16/2005  1:26 PM
what's better- the garbage we could get for Marbury, or a re-born Marbury, ala chauncy billups & the pistons?
lovespree
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12/16/2005  1:28 PM
I think that's unfair critisism towards Steph. He's being asked to play in a manner that's not accustomed to. Give him some time geez. Actually, I think he is trying to prove a point to LB. He's almost passing to a default. I guess he's like you want me to pass instead of score, fine. I'm passing, period - unless LB runs plays for him. No one esle is scoring...oh well..I'm doing what you want me to do. Not my fault. If he's thiking this we, I think he is absolutely right.
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BasketballJones
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12/16/2005  1:30 PM
I think the article is a bit harsh, but I do get the impression that Marbury is resisting in a passive-agressive way. That might just be part of the process, or it might be a bad sign.
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BasketballJones
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12/16/2005  1:34 PM
Posted by franco12:

what's better- the garbage we could get for Marbury, or a re-born Marbury, ala chauncy billups & the pistons?


The question is, can Marbury be re-born? Maybe he thinks he's just fine the way he is. Then what?
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EWING33BXNY
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12/16/2005  1:58 PM
Is it me but when it comes to everyone else on the team people on this message board always write "GIVE IT TIME."

When it comes to MARBURY, "HE HAS TO GO!" Everyone needs to let MARBURY be. He is the best player we have and people are willing to sell him for cheap. I'm really disappointed on how we can't stand behind the best player we have and are ready to throw him to the wolves.

Why does everyone else have a FREE PASS and Marbury just gets a hard time.

As a KNICKS fan I'm really disguted and the blame is not ALL MARBURY'S!!!
gunsnewing
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12/16/2005  2:25 PM
Posted by EWING33BXNY:

Is it me but when it comes to everyone else on the team people on this message board always write "GIVE IT TIME."

When it comes to MARBURY, "HE HAS TO GO!" Everyone needs to let MARBURY be. He is the best player we have and people are willing to sell him for cheap. I'm really disappointed on how we can't stand behind the best player we have and are ready to throw him to the wolves.

Why does everyone else have a FREE PASS and Marbury just gets a hard time.

As a KNICKS fan I'm really disguted and the blame is not ALL MARBURY'S!!!


There were plenty of people last year who kept saying give Marbury a chance and only a small percentage wanted to trade him. This year the Knicks added Frye & Curry and have regressed so feelings towards Marbury have reversed. Now people realize we need a true franchise player/leader and someone who can run an offense and get the most out of each player, someone who plays hard every possession on both ends of the floor and is proud to be a Knick and plays like it.
nyk4ever
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12/16/2005  2:29 PM
Posted by EWING33BXNY:

Is it me but when it comes to everyone else on the team people on this message board always write "GIVE IT TIME."

When it comes to MARBURY, "HE HAS TO GO!" Everyone needs to let MARBURY be. He is the best player we have and people are willing to sell him for cheap. I'm really disappointed on how we can't stand behind the best player we have and are ready to throw him to the wolves.

Why does everyone else have a FREE PASS and Marbury just gets a hard time.

As a KNICKS fan I'm really disguted and the blame is not ALL MARBURY'S!!!

Your right, the blame isn't all Marburys. He's only PART of the problem. I've been an absolute huge Marbury supporter since the day he was acquired and put on a Knicks uniform. So far this year, I've seen that he is not capable of playing for Larry Brown and that the Knicks need a PG that can run this team and be a court and floor general. Stephon is a great player but he's not a general out there on the court and that is what the Knicks need more then anything, someone to bring the ball up, setup the offense and get people to be where they are supposed to be on the court on BOTH ends. I have no problem moving Steph to the 2 but the Knicks absolutely NEED a new PG and there isn't one on the roster who will fill that need right now.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
EWING33BXNY
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12/16/2005  2:38 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by EWING33BXNY:

Is it me but when it comes to everyone else on the team people on this message board always write "GIVE IT TIME."

When it comes to MARBURY, "HE HAS TO GO!" Everyone needs to let MARBURY be. He is the best player we have and people are willing to sell him for cheap. I'm really disappointed on how we can't stand behind the best player we have and are ready to throw him to the wolves.

Why does everyone else have a FREE PASS and Marbury just gets a hard time.

As a KNICKS fan I'm really disguted and the blame is not ALL MARBURY'S!!!


There were plenty of people last year who kept saying give Marbury a chance and only a small percentage wanted to trade him. This year the Knicks added Frye & Curry and have regressed so feelings towards Marbury have reversed. Now people realize we need a true franchise player/leader and someone who can run an offense and get the most out of each player, someone who plays hard every possession on both ends of the floor and is proud to be a Knick and plays like it.

Do you really believe we can get that type of player if we trade Marbury? I don't think so. If we move the BIG, BLOATED, JAMES and a couple of expiring contracts and maybe we can get someone to compliment this team and even Marbury. We need a consistent scorer and a starting PG. This won't happen trading MArbury.
tomverve
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12/16/2005  2:40 PM
In a way, I hope Marbury does get traded, just so we don't have to listen to all this annoying bull**** 24/7. It seems about half of Knicks' fans reason for existing is to complain about Marbury on the internet, and then when they're finished, they go sacrifice a rat on the altar of their anti-Marbury shrine every night. Then they have nightmares about Marbury breaking into their house with a towel on his head, scowling at them. Then when they wake up and watch the news, they see Marbury's face on every two-bit criminal and lousy politician. If they start feeling down or sick, they curse Marbury's enchanted voodoo doll. Then they go back on the internet and the cycle is repeated.

God, enough already.
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nyk4ever
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12/16/2005  2:41 PM
Posted by tomverve:

In a way, I hope Marbury does get traded, just so we don't have to listen to all this annoying bull**** 24/7. It seems about half of Knicks' fans reason for existing is to complain about Marbury on the internet, and then when they're finished, they go sacrifice a rat on the altar of their anti-Marbury shrine every night. Then they have nightmares about Marbury breaking into their house with a towel on his head, scowling at them. Then when they wake up and watch the news, they see Marbury's face on every two-bit criminal and lousy politician. If they start feeling down or sick, they curse Marbury's enchanted voodoo doll. Then they go back on the internet and the cycle is repeated.

God, enough already.

LOL, thats classic Tom. Absolutely classic.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
gunsnewing
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12/16/2005  2:45 PM
Posted by EWING33BXNY:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by EWING33BXNY:

Is it me but when it comes to everyone else on the team people on this message board always write "GIVE IT TIME."

When it comes to MARBURY, "HE HAS TO GO!" Everyone needs to let MARBURY be. He is the best player we have and people are willing to sell him for cheap. I'm really disappointed on how we can't stand behind the best player we have and are ready to throw him to the wolves.

Why does everyone else have a FREE PASS and Marbury just gets a hard time.

As a KNICKS fan I'm really disguted and the blame is not ALL MARBURY'S!!!


There were plenty of people last year who kept saying give Marbury a chance and only a small percentage wanted to trade him. This year the Knicks added Frye & Curry and have regressed so feelings towards Marbury have reversed. Now people realize we need a true franchise player/leader and someone who can run an offense and get the most out of each player, someone who plays hard every possession on both ends of the floor and is proud to be a Knick and plays like it.

Do you really believe we can get that type of player if we trade Marbury? I don't think so. If we move the BIG, BLOATED, JAMES and a couple of expiring contracts and maybe we can get someone to compliment this team and even Marbury. We need a consistent scorer and a starting PG. This won't happen trading MArbury.


yeah but who's going to give us that player for Jerome James? What kind of player are we getting for him? Most likely another really bad player. Trading Marbury for an kind of cap relief would be HUGE. Then acquiring a worthy scorer and PG would be more of a possibility. Maybe even can even get a draft pick.
djsunyc
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12/16/2005  2:47 PM
Posted by tomverve:

In a way, I hope Marbury does get traded, just so we don't have to listen to all this annoying bull**** 24/7. It seems about half of Knicks' fans reason for existing is to complain about Marbury on the internet, and then when they're finished, they go sacrifice a rat on the altar of their anti-Marbury shrine every night. Then they have nightmares about Marbury breaking into their house with a towel on his head, scowling at them. Then when they wake up and watch the news, they see Marbury's face on every two-bit criminal and lousy politician. If they start feeling down or sick, they curse Marbury's enchanted voodoo doll. Then they go back on the internet and the cycle is repeated.

God, enough already.

i don't know how many others here think this but i know moving marbury doesn't mean that we'll win. so i can understand why some don't want to move him. on the other hand, it's not like we're winning WITH him. so what is isiah gonna do? wait it out or turn the page? whatever the case, we're all in it for the ride.

as for annoying BS, i don't think that's fair b/c i'm sure the some of the people that want him gone are saying the same thing about the "let's be patient with him" camp as well.
gunsnewing
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12/16/2005  2:48 PM
Posted by tomverve:

In a way, I hope Marbury does get traded, just so we don't have to listen to all this annoying bull**** 24/7. It seems about half of Knicks' fans reason for existing is to complain about Marbury on the internet, and then when they're finished, they go sacrifice a rat on the altar of their anti-Marbury shrine every night. Then they have nightmares about Marbury breaking into their house with a towel on his head, scowling at them. Then when they wake up and watch the news, they see Marbury's face on every two-bit criminal and lousy politician. If they start feeling down or sick, they curse Marbury's enchanted voodoo doll. Then they go back on the internet and the cycle is repeated.

God, enough already.


LOL thats exactly what its like. Thats what is was like when Kurt Thomas was our best frontcourt player those 4 dreaded years
gunsnewing
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12/16/2005  2:50 PM
Posted by djsunyc:



i don't know how many others here think this but i know moving marbury doesn't mean that we'll win. so i can understand why some don't want to move him. on the other hand, it's not like we're winning WITH him. so what is isiah gonna do? wait it out or turn the page? whatever the case, we're all in it for the ride.

as for annoying BS, i don't think that's fair b/c i'm sure the some of the people that want him gone are saying the same thing about the "let's be patient with him" camp as well.


^^^The Truth.

The lets be patient with him, lets give him a chance..Enter Curry & Frye...Let's be patient with him, lets give him a chance posts the past 3yrs have gotten really old



[Edited by - gunsnewing on 12-16-2005 2:55 PM]
EWING33BXNY
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12/16/2005  2:50 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

yeah but who's going to give us that player for Jerome James? What kind of player are we getting for him? Most likely another really bad player. Trading Marbury for an kind of cap relief would be HUGE. Then acquiring a worthy scorer and PG would be more of a possibility. Maybe even can even get a draft pick.

Its actually crazy but James has something other teams want, SIZE. He can get us a good player that can fit.

As for the draft pick that is not a win now thing to do. We just need to make some moves.
tomverve
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12/16/2005  2:59 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i don't know how many others here think this but i know moving marbury doesn't mean that we'll win. so i can understand why some don't want to move him. on the other hand, it's not like we're winning WITH him. so what is isiah gonna do? wait it out or turn the page? whatever the case, we're all in it for the ride.


Seriously, as far as the team goes, I wouldn't mind a Marbs trade. Even in the best case scenario, if he turns it around under LB and all that, I don't see that we'll be able to fill out the rest of the roster to the point where we'll be a serious title contender before Marbury starts to decline due to age, wear & tear. So he's not an untouchable, no.
as for annoying BS, i don't think that's fair b/c i'm sure the some of the people that want him gone are saying the same thing about the "let's be patient with him" camp as well.

It looks to me like one camp constantly harps on it over and over, while the other only voices their opinions in response to that constant harping. Some folks are just over the edge obsessed with this whole thing. It's so very, very old at this point. What in the world will those guys talk about if/when Marbury is traded? Probably they'll spend all of their time talking about that one time when Marbury was traded and how glad they are he's gone. I don't see how anyone involved can not be sick of it by now.
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Bippity10
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12/16/2005  3:04 PM
It's the same story in NY. As soon as we find out our star isn't good enough to be Wilt Chamberlain or Magic or Larry or Michael we turn on them and make them out to be the worst players in the league. Worse than guys that aren't even starting. We swear we are better off without them. It's sad. Marbury has brought some of it on himself but not as much as he gets. And I really felt bad for Ewing and Houston because those guys were class all the way and deserved far better from us.

Not everyone can be Michael Jordan. But just wait 3 years from now the fans will turn on Channing when his weaknesses start to show. It's just a cycle and is one of the reasons(amongst many) as to why this team has gone a million years without a title. Hopefully fans will realize it.
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No cure for Steph infection (article)

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