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Fire Isiah before he's allowed to do even more damage
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islesfan
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12/14/2005  11:22 PM
When exactly does Isiah start taking some of the blame for putting together this mismatched team? And why would anybody trust this guy to get us out of this? Even his most ardent supporters claim that he's a good drafter but mediocre to poor at acquiring players through trades. Well those potential lottery picks are going to be used by other GM's and not Isiah. All first round picks are not equal. You notice the difference between Frye vs Nate and Lee? That's the difference between a safe lottery pick and picking much later in the draft. That's why it's crippling to trade away this many possible lottery picks. Especially for such questionable players.



If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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NYKniCksFan87
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12/14/2005  11:27 PM
for the 1st time ever...i agree with your assesment....but dont fire zeke....im just saying he needs to take take some heatfor this as well...
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
EwingsGlass
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12/14/2005  11:29 PM
Posted by islesfan:

When exactly does Isiah start taking some of the blame for putting together this mismatched team? And why would anybody trust this guy to get us out of this? Even his most ardent supporters claim that he's a good drafter but mediocre to poor at acquiring players through trades. Well those potential lottery picks are going to be used by other GM's and not Isiah. All first round picks are not equal. You notice the difference between Frye vs Nate and Lee? That's the difference between a safe lottery pick and picking much later in the draft. That's why it's crippling to trade away this many possible lottery picks. Especially for such questionable players.

It is absolutely ridiculous to challenge IT's draft performance or even call a pick like Channing a safe pick. Look at all the deriding posts when IT announced Frye was his guy. Safe? I doubt it. Fact of the matter is that he hits homeruns in the draft. AND he has transformed the roster from very little tradeable assets to quite a few. We actually have players who are "untradeable" by our own devise. It used to be the lack of talent and overpriced contracts made players untradeable. For that alone, he deserves an opportunity to see this project through.
You know I gonna spin wit it
Knicksfan
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12/14/2005  11:32 PM
This is the thread that was still missing, one that criticized Isiah. But I won't defend him, he built this team and he has a lot of blame for the sh!tty performances. He gave Larry a terribly flawed team...
Knicks_Fan
islesfan
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12/14/2005  11:33 PM
Channing was absolutely the safe pick. He went pretty much where everybody thought he would go. The criticism with the pick was that there were players that people thought had more upside than him. That may or not be true but there's no doubt that Frye was the safe choice at that pick.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Rich
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12/14/2005  11:36 PM
Isiah engineered the Frye pick by having him not work out for any other teams.
Knight
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12/14/2005  11:38 PM
Before Larry was available IT was attempting to build a young and athletic run&gun type team--the opposite of what we had before. IT really wanted to open up the offense and get up and down the floor. But he couldn't pass up the chance to bring in Larry this year--and I give him credit for that--IT seems willing now to remodel this team according to a different and better vision.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Knicksfan
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12/14/2005  11:39 PM
Yes it was, Isles, but he deserves some credit for sticking to his plan on picking him rather than getting blinded by others' upside. Lets be objective here: Isiah hasn't done the best of jobs with this roster but where he deserves credit, he should get it. He has picked good players in the draft. Even Ariza, for the pick he was chosen with, thats a find. He still has lots of work to do, and this time he has to think about the players Larry would love to have....
Knicks_Fan
islesfan
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12/14/2005  11:40 PM
Posted by Rich:

Isiah engineered the Frye pick by having him not work out for any other teams.

Frye wasn't an unknown quantity playing for a high profile college program for 4 years. It wasn't like Amare Stoudemire only working out for the Suns.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Rich
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12/14/2005  11:40 PM
I believe that Isiah only traded for Marbury because Dolan has pressured him into quick fixes.
nyk4ever
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12/14/2005  11:41 PM
Posted by Knight:

Before Larry was available IT was attempting to build a young and athletic run&gun type team--the opposite of what we had before. IT really wanted to open up the offense and get up and down the floor. But he couldn't pass up the chance to bring in Larry this year--and I give him credit for that--IT seems willing now to remodel this team according to a different and better vision.

Good post, Knight I agree 100% Isiah has to be held accountable for this Knicks team but he's got alot of leeway with the men above him and thats all that really matters. I'll give him a little time to change this team according to what Larry Brown wants but he HAS to start showing some results.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Rich
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12/14/2005  11:43 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Rich:

Isiah engineered the Frye pick by having him not work out for any other teams.

Frye wasn't an unknown quantity playing for a high profile college program for 4 years. It wasn't like Amare Stoudemire only working out for the Suns.

But he was also a player whose stock was rising from a low first round pick after the NCAAs to a mid first round pick to a low lottery pick. If he worked out for more teams, Toronto, for example, may have drafted him.
islesfan
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12/14/2005  11:43 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Yes it was, Isles, but he deserves some credit for sticking to his plan on picking him rather than getting blinded by others' upside. Lets be objective here: Isiah hasn't done the best of jobs with this roster but where he deserves credit, he should get it. He has picked good players in the draft. Even Ariza, for the pick he was chosen with, thats a find. He still has lots of work to do, and this time he has to think about the players Larry would love to have....

If that's the case then what's the point in trading away so many potential lottery picks?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Knicksfan
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12/14/2005  11:47 PM
To get players he believes are or will be better than the ones avaliable with those picks. This next draft isn't a deep one, and Im sure he believed we would play better than this. He risked it and it seems that it may backfire him. He got Curry for those picks and he is a great talent in a position so hard to find real one. That Curry is underperforming is a problem, yes, but Curry could be better than probably the players avaliable on the draft. He took the gamble, but the jury is still out. We really have to see how good will that pick be...
Knicks_Fan
islesfan
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12/14/2005  11:50 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Rich:

Isiah engineered the Frye pick by having him not work out for any other teams.

Frye wasn't an unknown quantity playing for a high profile college program for 4 years. It wasn't like Amare Stoudemire only working out for the Suns.

But he was also a player whose stock was rising from a low first round pick after the NCAAs to a mid first round pick to a low lottery pick. If he worked out for more teams, Toronto, for example, may have drafted him.

Exactly his stock rose to where he was expected to be picked around the time that the Knicks picked him.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
FireIsiah
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12/14/2005  11:51 PM
He sucks and that is it. He has done nothing to improve this team. I'm still waiting for a true center, rebounder, outside shooter and a defensive specialist to be on this roster. This team is terrible to watch and I will not attend another game until that D-bag Isiah is canned. Lets sign Crawford and his 38% shooting from the field to 50 mill. Lets sign James to a 5 year deal even though he played 3 good games in his whole career. That should have been a 10 day contract. I cant wait for the bulls to win the lottery pick for curry. Curry lets see a 7 footer who cant rebound game in and game out. Q another player who shoots 38% from the field. Good job Isiah!!!
I want to leave something that's going to stand for a long timeI want to leave a legacy,I want to leave tradition.I want to leave an imprint,a blueprint in terms of how people play,and how they coach and how they respond when they put on the Knick uni.
Rich
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12/14/2005  11:57 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Rich:

Isiah engineered the Frye pick by having him not work out for any other teams.

Frye wasn't an unknown quantity playing for a high profile college program for 4 years. It wasn't like Amare Stoudemire only working out for the Suns.

But he was also a player whose stock was rising from a low first round pick after the NCAAs to a mid first round pick to a low lottery pick. If he worked out for more teams, Toronto, for example, may have drafted him.

Exactly his stock rose to where he was expected to be picked around the time that the Knicks picked him.

Wasn't Toronto told he didn't want to go there and didn't he refuse to work out for teams after Isiah met with him?

Hasn't Isiah said he would draft him over any other player in the draft? But for perhaps Chris Paul, that's looking like a spot on assessment.
crzymdups
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12/14/2005  11:57 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Channing was absolutely the safe pick. He went pretty much where everybody thought he would go. The criticism with the pick was that there were players that people thought had more upside than him. That may or not be true but there's no doubt that Frye was the safe choice at that pick.

Frye was not a safe or easy pick. People said Isiah was picking him way too high. It's not easy to get a player from the second half of the lotto and Isiah did. Look at the past five lotteries, past the fifth pick there are just as many duds as players who produce.
¿ △ ?
crzymdups
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12/14/2005  11:59 PM
As for Isiah, if things aren't turned around by March, I think he will be on the hot seat. I'll give him until the trade deadline to make a move. Layden got to screw up the franchise from the Ewing trade in 2000 until December 03. Surely Isiah deserves the same ammount of time - at least Isiah has made three solid draft picks in his tenure (Frye, Ariza, Nate). How many draft picks did Layden come up with? Sweetney.
¿ △ ?
Rich
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12/15/2005  12:00 AM
I still think the biggest problem on this team, which would obviate the "FIRE" threads, is the lack of a PG who is a floor general.
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Fire Isiah before he's allowed to do even more damage
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