I have to say some thigns that haven't been said.
Some of these idiotic posts have annoyed me enough to make me post again.

I watched the game twice last night and here were my observations.

-Curry started slow and picked up steam and was playing pretty well during stretches, getting KT in foul trouble.
-Stephs mid-range shot was looking like it was last year, very aggressive in the beginning, but picking his spots well and hitting at a high percentage.

-We see what happens when LB uses 4/5ths of the correct starting lineup. He started Nate and it worked, but the main point is we cannot be a winning team with Nate in our starting lineup and Craw playing inconsistant off the bench. In addition, Craw is a defensive liability which only becomes worse when he is scoring 8 points on 9 shots. Craw's play is hurting us big time.

-Nate played his best game, only missed one shot and overall played great D on Nash, especially in the second half. That being said he really is not the answer for us, except for in certain matchups or off the bench for no more than 20 minutes per game.

-Ball movement early in the shot clock is something many here put a premium on, but when LB calls a play that requires Curry or whoever to get in the post, you have to wait for themm, so blame LB blame Curry, dopn't blame Steph for that. Plays have to develop and guys have to get in their positions, but yeah, I know its steph's fault guys are not getting in their positions.

-Ball movement is part of what gets us so many turnovers, because save for Steph and Jamal, our guys pass very poorly.

-Many here seem to confuse flow of the offense with the alley-oop passes that Craw throws. They are nice, but an offense cannot be built on that. Alley-oops are high risk passes that if done perfectly lead to 2 points, if not they are turnovers. I don't want my PG's best pass to be an alley-oop, especially when we are not a run and gun team. That is not how you run an offense. Craw avg's about as many TO's as Steph all while playing 10 less minutes and not being the primary ball handler most of the time. He's gotta improve on that. our whole team does.

-It is apparent to me that LB has different playbooks for Steph and Craw. There are no back door cutters while steph is the PG, he either dumps it, rotates it, pick and roll, curl play, or creates off the dribble and there are no pick and rolls while Craw is the PG, he either rotates, or backdoors. I really don't get it. Also, No curl plays run for Craw in that game that I can recall. Bear in mind LB is calling most of the plays.

-Many here never run out of excuses for why J.Craw plays poorly/inconsistantly and why Steph allegedly doesn't fit. FIT WHAT? We haven't established a system, style of play, or rotation and he's been our best player by a mile. What is it he doesn't fit? Oh yeah, alley-oops.

-Steph getting others involved. Who is it that is not getting involved? Curry is being force fed to a fault, Frye took a million shots (had a really bad game) Malik Rose gave away 3 possesions in like 5 minutes and so did Penny because we were involving them. Nate took plenty of shots, Mo taylor took 2 too many down the stretch, and Craw took 9 and should have and could have taken more and/or better shots. Part of the blame for Craw is himself and part of it is LB imo.

-Frye was nervous, first time I ever saw that from him, but its totally cool. Everyone gives him a pass on that. I saw Jamal tell him don't worry about it at the end of the game. I think he'll work even harder after tht game so its cool.

-Some subbing mistakes (No EC for way too long) poor play, and poor play calling/decision making lead to our loss. Nate didn't give the rock to Steph in a crucial possession and instead Mo Taylor bricked a turn around fade away 15 foot jumper. Say what you will about Steph, but I think we can all agree that we are better with the ball in his hands over Mo Taylors.

-Craw played like a hot sack of **** throughout the game, he is our second option and is getting outplayed by Nate. One of you Steph haters gimme an excuse for that. If he mtakes probably 3 or 4 more shots, we are in a position to win. His head is not out of his arse as some of you proclaimed after a 31 point half. Even that game wasn't consistant. He needs to give us the same thing every night, wheter its 13 or 18 ppg, we've gotta be able to bank on him for certain things, we can't do that now and 8 points from your 2nd option is unacceptable. He's gotta learn to get to the line and help us in other ways when he is shooting poorly.

-The phoenix Suns made 6 fgs the entire fourth quarter, as a team (6-18) Nash made none of them (0-4)
Various guys chipped in here and there.

-The Knicks made 6 fgs in the entire 4th quarter as a team (6-19) Steph made 4 of them and Craw made 2.
Steph was 4-5
Craw was 2-6
Nate was 0-2
Frye was 0-3
Mo taylor was 0-2
Butler was 0-1
Curry took 0 shots

This has happened more often than not, save for Craws good 2nd half performances (not good games).
This team played well, but Steph cannot do it alone. Someone besides him has to step up and play cinsistantly.
If Fry played halfway decent we run away with that game.
If Craw played an average and not horrible game, we win.
If Curry plays more than 5 minutes in the second half I like our chances alot.
Phoenix missd alot of shots, but part of that is who they are. They don't have dead-eye marksmen, and a 3 pointer is a low percentage shot even if youre open. Part of it was our good d in the beginning and not letting them get in a groove, so give our guys some credit for that.

LB rotations were the best they've ever been, lets hop he keeps it up.
We are almost there, I can see it. When Cury gets in his groove and Fry snaps out of it, I believe we will win alot of games because we will hve 3 consistant scorers Steph,Frye,Curry.




[Edited by - Killa4luv on 12-11-2005 12:55 PM]

anyone who "blames" the pheonix game on steph is pretty much wrong. for the most part, steph was doing what he was told.

killa man...there's two sides of the fence here...one that wants steph gone and one that doesn't.

the more people criticize steph, the more and more passionate steph fans become.
the more steph fans come to his defense, the more and more passionate the "trade steph" contingent becomes.

that's just the way it is.

again, i will say it...IF steph is our pg, then i don't want him taking 20% of our team's shots. whether he scores 28 points in a win or a loss, i don't like it. that's just how i feel about a pg's role on a team. that's why i wasn't so happy with that portland win at home a few weeks ago. steph went for his, got 30+ and we won. but that's not how i think this team wants to win. i would rather lose by 10 points if it means steph takes 5 less shots per game and passes them off to other players missing them. it sounds twisted but that means there's a change in philosophy and more important, a change in steph's game. it means it's his supporting cast and he's becoming pass first.

is 19 games under brown a big enough sample for that to happen? no it isn't. that's why i'd like to start our best players and see what happens with steph at the helm for the rest of the season. can steph be happy as the 4th or 5th option? i don't know...but i don't think so. you can cut and copy this response if our pg was arenas or bdiddy as well. difference between arenas and steph is that the wizards have jamison so they're able to win more games. but are they on their way to a title? not even close.

I think both the Marbury and Craw bashing go way too far. I like them both for this team. We need 1 or 2 more pieces (depending on whether Ariza continues to play like he did at the start and/or whether QDog does well). We also need our style of play, rotations, etc to settle in, and our passing, turnovers, and foulshooting to improve. With all the things that aren't crisp yet you'd think Knicks fans would be thrilled with this team for going toe to toe with some of the hottest teams in the league. A rag tag group of good talent being de-programmed and re-programmed by Larry brown, with almost all of them younger than 25, is alternating between brilliance and game losing mistakes.

With LB swimming in their heads I'm not surprised we've seen them think too much, not have enough confidence, get confused about their roles, get confused about the plays, and have even seen the rookies play like actually rookies at times. But other than the record, this team looks like it's doing a hell of a lot better than should have been expected. They will settle into a system and continue to grow. What LB is teaching them WILL make them a better team, and they will start racking up the wins.... and the respect.

[Edited by - TemujinKnick on 12-11-2005 3:37 PM]

I think other players on the team needs to step up their game. If the other players are not doing what they are supposed to do, what other choice does Marbury have? I don't mind if my point takes more than 20% of the shots. Who comes up with these ratios anyway? I want Marbury to continue getting his and getting his assists. It's only makes him more dangerous and helps us. When an offensive set is called, everyone on the floor should do what they need to do to get the easy score.

Posted by djsunyc:

again, i will say it...IF steph is our pg, then i don't want him taking 20% of our team's shots. whether he scores 28 points in a win or a loss, i don't like it. that's just how i feel about a pg's role on a team. that's why i wasn't so happy with that portland win at home a few weeks ago. steph went for his, got 30+ and we won. but that's not how i think this team wants to win.

You are unhappy with a win because Steph scored alot of points? You sound ridiculous. Using the portland game as a case in point, we won not just because Steph scored 27 points (9-16), but because Frye scored 20 (8-10), Craw 19 (5-14), Curry had 12 (3-4), Nate had 7 (3-9) and AD and Malik had 6 each shooting 3-4, 2-5 respectively. Steph was the leading scorer, but also had a game high 8 assists, and everyone of those players got an appropriate amount of shots except for Curry and he only played 17 minutes. Steph played how he'll have to play in order for us to win, he exploited their defense. No he doesn't need to score 27 every night for us to win, but hes gotta play his part and others have got to play their roles as well. On offense it boils to down shots and touches and exploiting the other teams weaknesses.

LB said he wanted Steph to take 15 to 20 good shots a game. If I were to draw up how many shots I think each player should take, at that point in the season I think that game was pretty perfect except for Curry (too few) and Nate (too many). Frye obviously could have taken more too, but 10 shots isn't bad at all, not when someone else is hot, and especially if we won.

For me right now, I would idealy like it to look like this:
Marb=15
Craw=15
Frye=15
Curry=15

Those are our best offensive players and they should take the most shots, period. Before the game there may be matchups that we definitely wanna exploit, and during the game someone may get hot and I would respond accordingly, but I would begin thinking about shots per game in that way. We need to have a balanced attack because no player can win it by themsleves. I just think everyone needs to play their role and thus far that has rarely happened. We just pushed Phoenix to the brink and Steph, Curry, and Nate were the only players in double figures. We are about to turn a corner, I can see it.

i would rather lose by 10 points if it means steph takes 5 less shots per game and passes them off to other players missing them. it sounds twisted but that means there's a change in philosophy and more important, a change in steph's game. it means it's his supporting cast and he's becoming pass first.

Totally illogical. I don't want Steph passing to other players missing them. I want to win. Its not like Frye isn't playing and isn't getting touches, same for Curry and Craw. If he is passing to any of those guys I'm cool, anyone else and its really just foolish, imo. Pass first is a tired cliche'. Screw "pass-first" vs. "shoot-first", the botom line is are other players getting an appropriate amount of good shots per game? And is steph running the plays LB is asking him to?

LB is calling the plays on every possesion so you are challenging LB's philosophy more than you are questioning Steph. When LB calls a pick and roll play he knows that means either steph or Frye will be open, If steph shoots or drives because he's open thats fine with me and LB too, because he calls alot of pick and rolls. If Frye gets a million open looks (as has happened early in the season) thats fine too. But this obsession you have with Steph's shots is really illogical. I guess when he is open on the pick and roll he should just pass it to someone else who isn't open? Thats ridiculous. Start a thread about LB's playcalling if thats how you feel.

Steph as a 4th or 5th option? If that happens we'll be on our way to a championship, because that will mean we have efficient production from 3 or 4 players on the court. If we are that good and Steph doesn't wanna comply, get him outta here. However, that is obviously not the reality we are dealing with right now. Frye is efficient and Curry is getting there. Craw is a question mark.
Right now, Steph is the best scorer on our team, but that doesn't mean he should be option 1 on offense and I don't think he is.

Posted by simrud:

I'v been watching the games (well a good part of them) and I'll tell you that Marbury passes and passes and they are just sucking around him.

This is coming from me, I don't even like Marbury, but he has done everything you can ask from him. I didnt like him because he didnt play any defense, but now that he is playin godd D, credit is due.

I still think he is a choker, but thats a different point. Just because a guy is not clutch, doesnt mean you can't use a 20 pt 8 asst a game guy running your team. Just have guys who can finish around him and somebody who is actually clutch.

And please for the love of god take Rose and Davis out to the pasture.

There is at least one man who the hate hasn't blinded! Halleluyah!

Those theories don't make sense. If the plan is to trade Steph, you still wanna start him with the best 5 to have him look his absolute best. The lineup he's been starting with and the resulting record, has lowered his value if anything.

The theory that makes sense is that we are trying to move AD and Rose and are playing them big minutes to showcase their 'talents'. LB even making sure to mention their names in the post game interview to boost their trade value. Also by making them starters, the theory is that they can be traded for other starters, as opposed to trading them as players off the bench. Thats the only thing that really makes any sesne to me. I think that plan may have backfired, because obviously AD and Rose suck ass, but it is the one of the few plausible explanations for why they have played so much this season.

Using tht theory, Nate, AD, and Rose will be traded, because they are the ones who don't belong in the starting lineup and I think we are all in agreement about that.

Theory 2 could be that he is just using them to make other guys work hard to 'earn' their starting spot.

Posted by djsunyc:

i can't see what you're saying...the hate is blinding me

ROFL!!! You are one funny dude man!!!! ROFL!!! You had me busting out laughing at my job, people are walking by looking crazy at me!!!!!

Posted by djsunyc:

winning with steph would be best for ALL parties involved...so hopefully, it will happen but otherwise, you have to be prepared to move him.

do you realize the hate quotient in a statement like "I didn't like the win when Marbury scored 27 points" ? That is hatred. You have been officially outed. Steph-haters man up!!

[Edited by - killa4luv on 12-12-2005 11:52 AM]

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by djsunyc:

winning with steph would be best for ALL parties involved...so hopefully, it will happen but otherwise, you have to be prepared to move him.

do you realize the hate quotient in a statement like "I didn't like the win when Marbury scored 27 points" ? That is hatred. You have been officially outed. Steph-haters man up!!

[Edited by - killa4luv on 12-12-2005 11:52 AM]

ask lb if he's happy winning with steph scoring 27 points.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 12-12-2005 12:12 PM]