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top 5 man units...courtesy of 82games.com
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djsunyc
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11/29/2005  11:15 AM 

Top Five-Man Floor Units
#   Unit                                      Min  Off  Def  +/-  W   L   Win% 
1   Marbury-Richardson-Barnes-Davis-Curry     48   79   80   -1   2   3   40.0 
2   Marbury-Crawford-Richardson-Davis-Curry   33   60   64   -4   2   2   50.0 
3   Marbury-Richardson-Ariza-Davis-Frye       28   54   73   -19  0   6   0.0 
4   Robinson-Crawford-Ariza-Lee-Frye          22   59   42   +17  4   3   57.1
5   Marbury-Crawford-Taylor-Rose-Davis        17   35   42   -7   1   2   33.3 
6   Marbury-Richardson-Ariza-Davis-Curry      13   24   30   -6   1   1   50.0 
7   Marbury-Crawford-Rose-Davis-Curry         13   27   35   -8   0   2   0.0 
8   Marbury-Crawford-Ariza-Davis-Curry        12   21   19   +2   1   3   25.0 
9   Robinson-Marbury-Richardson-Davis-Frye    11   18   23   -5   0   1   0.0 
10   Marbury-Crawford-Barnes-Davis-Curry      10   16   33   -17  0   1   0.0


our best unit is with the young guys while our worst was the one we put out on the floor yesterday.
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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11/29/2005  11:34 AM
yea.. I believe AD is our worst player on the +/-
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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11/29/2005  11:40 AM
And Frye is our best player on the +/-.
djsunyc
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11/29/2005  11:46 AM 

Player   On Court+/-     Off Court+/-     Team Net+/- 
Frye        +8.2           -13.8            +22.0 
Robinson    +8.6           -9.0             +17.6 
Taylor      +7.0           -6.5             +13.5 
Lee         +6.4           -5.9             +12.3 
Ariza       +3.7           -8.3             +12.0 
Butler      +3.8           -4.2             +8.0 
Hardaway    +2.9           -3.6             +6.5 
Rose        +0.7           -5.5             +6.1 
Crawford    -3.7           -2.9             -0.9 
Richardson  -6.6           -0.9             -5.6 
Curry       -10.2          +0.5             -10.7 
Marbury     -5.6           +5.2             -10.9 
Barnes      -19.8          -0.6             -19.2 
James       -27.1          -2.7             -24.4 
Davis       -22.9          +16.9            -39.7
franco12
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11/29/2005  11:49 AM
Marebury & curry both CLEARLY need to be traded.
SlimPack
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11/29/2005  12:05 PM
well the thing to keep in mind is that frye lee ariza crawford and nate are usually playing against second unit guys, however despite knowing this I still think their our best unit just from watching them.

[Edited by - slimpack on 11-29-2005 12:06 PM]
Nalod
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11/29/2005  12:21 PM
Anfernee rocks!
efw
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11/29/2005  12:22 PM
Yes, I don't think those stats say anything other than our bench is a good one. They can get us back in the games that our starters lose for us. That win% wouldn't be anywhere near that high if you started that unit.
TemujinKnick
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11/29/2005  12:28 PM
Sure, but it also reinforces that Frye should still be starting over AD and that we need serious improvement at the 2/3.
Bonn1997
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11/29/2005  12:29 PM
Posted by franco12:

Marebury & curry both CLEARLY need to be traded.

Not sure if you're joking or serious, but the +/- for Marbury is an abberation probably due in part to low sample size of games. Every year after 82 games are played, his +/- is always outstanding. Curry's +/- was better before the calf injury. He's a long-term project, though.
McK1
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11/29/2005  12:41 PM
Marbgury was -0.2 last year after a full 82.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
tomverve
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11/29/2005  1:20 PM
Take it with a grain of salt. +/- numbers are very 'noisy,' meaning we need large sample sizes to get meaningful numbers. Remember just 6 or 7 games ago, Frye's +/- was something ridiculous like +45? The numbers are beginning to settle down a bit, but we will continue to see significant changes as the season goes on.

For instance, consider this. So our starting unit last night is currently our worst +/- lineup. Was it our worst +/- lineup before last night? How much did getting blown out change those numbers for the worse? With only 12 games played previously, and only the previous game sharing the same starting lineup as last night (meaning, that particular lineup probably was not on the floor for as many mpg as it was last night) you can bet that that lineup logging significant minutes during what was essentially a blowout made a significant dent in the +/-.

There is also the issue of who those numbers are coming against, as someone brought up. Now, I don't have a spreadsheet of numbers in front of me or anything, but just straight from memory, when have we tended to see a lineup of Nate-Craw-Ariza-Lee-Frye? Not so much during critical or competetive junctures of games, but a whole lot in garbage time, schooling the other team's subs.

+/- numbers are compelling in terms of what they measure-- presumably they get down to the bottom line of how effective players really are-- but they come with tons of caveats. It's important not to forget that. I would not feel comfortable coming to any strong quantitative conclusions using +/- unless they came after at least most games in the season have been played (preferably, all 82), and even then I would like to see them adjusted for quality of competition and teammates. And even *then*, adjusted +/- stats can be 'noisy' and in need of further refinements. So, be very careful in what you conclude from these. Overall qualitative judgments (e.g., this guy has a high +/- so it's likely that he's doing good things for his team) are a reasonably safe bet. Quantitative judgments (this guy's +/- is higher than that guy's, therefore he is more important to this team) are much dicier.

[Edited by - tomverve on 11-29-2005 1:24 PM]
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fishmike
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11/29/2005  1:22 PM
Posted by McK1:

Marbgury was -0.2 last year after a full 82.
yea but they were -15 or something with him off the floor. They were even with him and terrible the minute he sat. Also if you look at production by position we won the matchup at PG by a landslide

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tomverve
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11/29/2005  1:25 PM
Posted by McK1:

Marbgury was -0.2 last year after a full 82.


LOL, nice try at butchering the numbers to prove your pre-existing conclusion. fish correctly called you out on this one. Marbury's net +/- last season was +12.0.
http://www.82games.com/0405NYK.HTM
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Killa4luv
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11/29/2005  1:26 PM
Also the youngsters playing in garbage time drastically affects those stats.

DJ, knock yourself out pushing for that starting lineup. We wouldn't win a single game like that!!! But we might win Greg Oden!
McK1
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11/29/2005  1:52 PM
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by McK1:

Marbgury was -0.2 last year after a full 82.


LOL, nice try at butchering the numbers to prove your pre-existing conclusion. fish correctly called you out on this one. Marbury's net +/- last season was +12.0.
http://www.82games.com/0405NYK.HTM

the reply was about the individual +/- discussion.

Showing the net only means we went from bad to worse which only opens up another can of worms about the roster IT assembled - another topic beaten to a 33-49 pulp.

nd of course the pg match-up was one considering Steph was the 3rd or 4th leading scorer among pgs. Teams playing NY live with Steph scoring alot b/c he gives it right back on the defensive end with allowing any and every opposing guard in the lane as he conserves his energy for offense.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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11/29/2005  2:41 PM
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by McK1:

Marbgury was -0.2 last year after a full 82.


LOL, nice try at butchering the numbers to prove your pre-existing conclusion. fish correctly called you out on this one. Marbury's net +/- last season was +12.0.
http://www.82games.com/0405NYK.HTM

Thanks; you and Fish beat me to it.
McK1
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11/29/2005  2:56 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by McK1:

Marbgury was -0.2 last year after a full 82.


LOL, nice try at butchering the numbers to prove your pre-existing conclusion. fish correctly called you out on this one. Marbury's net +/- last season was +12.0.
http://www.82games.com/0405NYK.HTM

Thanks; you and Fish beat me to it.



the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Allanfan20
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11/29/2005  3:08 PM
Don't feel bad McK1. That's what we all feel after reading a Bonn post. It can cause major post tramatic stress disorder. Maybe search around and find a Nalod post and you'll feel better.
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rvhoss
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11/29/2005  3:14 PM
mck1 is -15 readers reading threads where he is the last post.

think about it.=)
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