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Is Jordan a legend because he came into the league a 20 years early?
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Caseloads
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11/19/2005  8:51 AM
Since the Knicks suck, I pondered this question earlier this morning:

Is Jordan a legend because he came into the league a 20 years early?

If Jordan came into the league now and had to go up against Vince, T-mac, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Ray Allen, Tayshaun Prince, Artest, Lebron, etc... would Jordan still have been a legend? I say no way. Please. I would say Lebron and Artest are at least as good as Jordan was, if not better. I think Jordan played against much shorter and weaker SGs back in the 80s and 90s. The league is so much bigger, stronger, faster now and that was what made Jordan such a winner. Yes, Jordan had a "winners-mentality," "game wisdom" and that "killer instinct" but seriously, Artest and Lebron at the minimum would have crushed Jordan's guts.
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Bonn1997
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11/19/2005  8:53 AM
Every generation is bigger and stronger than the previous generation (probably because of medical advances). If Jordan was born 20 years later, he probably would have grown up to be bigger and stronger than he was.
Caseloads
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11/19/2005  8:57 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Every generation is bigger and stronger than the previous generation (probably because of medical advances). If Jordan was born 20 years later, he probably would have grown up to be bigger and stronger than he was.
I'm not sure if every generation is "bigger and stronger" than the previous generation because of medical advances - it really is due to a more selective basketball process starting earlier and earlier and more players in the states and abroad getting involved in the game of basketball - a basketball "survival of the fittest" - only the best make the NBA. Overall, the height in the general population has not increased - i.e. back in the day - 6'7" players were groomed to be PFs, not SFs or SGs. There were always tall people - just not tall people that grew up playing basketball their entire lives.

So, if Jordan was born 20 years later, he would not have grown bigger - although he might have lifted more and been a bit bulkier.
OasisBU
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11/19/2005  9:11 AM
If there was no Jordan in the 80s we wouldnt have T-Mac, Kobe and Vince. But I get your point. I think they guy was going to be a legend no matter what. Size wasnt the only attribute that would be a factor, will to win, heart, work ethic etc. Maybe since he was from a different generation he had a totally different mindset. Maybe if he was young today he wouldnt have the same determination? Who knows.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
Caseloads
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11/19/2005  9:21 AM
I really don't think Jordan would have been a legend if he played now against Artest, etc. No one right now in the NBA is "legendary." I know what you mean, that Jordan inspired all those kobes, vinces, t-macs, etc. I think LeBron, Kobe, Artest all have the will to win, heart, work ethic, etc.
BRIGGS
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11/19/2005  9:53 AM
well, if big wilt was in his prime, he'd be killing people today. who can stop wilt now? nba C are worse than I can remember.

heck MJ was good at what 40 years old with shot knees and 30 pounds heavier than when he came into the league. even as a shell, he averaged 20 points a game.


Now with guys like Lebron Chris Paul Chris Bosh Dwight Howard Amare--the talent level in the nBA has recycled to the upside and that will continue when Greg Oden OJ Mayo Billy Walker start pouring in.

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Caseloads
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11/19/2005  9:55 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

well, if big wilt was in his prime, he'd be killing people today. who can stop wilt now? nba C are worse than I can remember.

heck MJ was good at what 40 years old with shot knees and 30 pounds heavier than when he came into the league. even as a shell, he averaged 20 points a game.


Now with guys like Lebron Chris Paul Chris Bosh Dwight Howard Amare--the talent level in the nBA has recycled to the upside and that will continue when Greg Oden OJ Mayo Billy Walker start pouring in.
The defense in games and the amazing skills of so many players make the game so much tougher now than when Jordan played. Yes, Wilt would be a star now, but how much better would Wilt be than lets say Dwight Howard?
NotFrye
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11/19/2005  10:25 AM
this argument is bogus, given that the only realy mitigating factor for jordan now is zone defense. What was great about jordan's game was that he demanded double and triple teams and moved the ball around getting the open man the shot. With zone defense, it's a lot easier to smother a player and prevent repeated iso plays (remember the spree + houston days?).

That said, briggs brings up actual proof to the counter-argument- that a 40 year old, broken down jordan was able to score 40+ points in the "modern" nba era. I also recall the all star game where early 20s kobe went at a 35 year-old Jordan and got schooled. If Kobe is the "great" modern player, and is able to have dominant stretches, I see no reason why Jordan couldn't as well. I also think Hakeem or Wilt in their primes would be whoring the competition presently.



[Edited by - notfrye on 11-19-2005 10:38 AM]
Caseloads
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11/19/2005  10:41 AM
Posted by NotFrye:

this argument is bogus, given that the only realy mitigating factor for jordan now is zone defense. What was great about jordan's game was that he demanded double and triple teams and moved the ball around getting the open man the shot. With zone defense, it's a lot easier to smother a player and prevent repeated iso plays (remember the spree + houston days?).

That said, briggs brings up actual proof to the counter-argument- that a 40 year old, broken down jordan was able to score 40+ points in the "modern" nba era. I also recall the all star game where early 20s kobe went at a 35 year-old Jordan and got schooled. If Kobe is the "great" modern player, and is able to have dominant stretches, I see no reason why Jordan couldn't as well. I also think Hakeem or Wilt in their primes would be whoring the competition presently.
[Edited by - notfrye on 11-19-2005 10:38 AM]
LeBron versus Jordan?
Jordan versus Artest?
I'm not saying Jordan isn't "great," but would he have been legendary if he played now?
Knight
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11/19/2005  10:44 AM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by NotFrye:

this argument is bogus, given that the only realy mitigating factor for jordan now is zone defense. What was great about jordan's game was that he demanded double and triple teams and moved the ball around getting the open man the shot. With zone defense, it's a lot easier to smother a player and prevent repeated iso plays (remember the spree + houston days?).

That said, briggs brings up actual proof to the counter-argument- that a 40 year old, broken down jordan was able to score 40+ points in the "modern" nba era. I also recall the all star game where early 20s kobe went at a 35 year-old Jordan and got schooled. If Kobe is the "great" modern player, and is able to have dominant stretches, I see no reason why Jordan couldn't as well. I also think Hakeem or Wilt in their primes would be whoring the competition presently.
[Edited by - notfrye on 11-19-2005 10:38 AM]
LeBron versus Jordan?
Jordan versus Artest?
I'm not saying Jordan isn't "great," but would he have been legendary if he played now?

Yes. It's more than one-on-one skills--Jordan was a winner and knew how to win better than anyone today.


[Edited by - Knight on 11-19-2005 10:45 AM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
NotFrye
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11/19/2005  11:03 AM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by NotFrye:

this argument is bogus, given that the only realy mitigating factor for jordan now is zone defense. What was great about jordan's game was that he demanded double and triple teams and moved the ball around getting the open man the shot. With zone defense, it's a lot easier to smother a player and prevent repeated iso plays (remember the spree + houston days?).

That said, briggs brings up actual proof to the counter-argument- that a 40 year old, broken down jordan was able to score 40+ points in the "modern" nba era. I also recall the all star game where early 20s kobe went at a 35 year-old Jordan and got schooled. If Kobe is the "great" modern player, and is able to have dominant stretches, I see no reason why Jordan couldn't as well. I also think Hakeem or Wilt in their primes would be whoring the competition presently.
[Edited by - notfrye on 11-19-2005 10:38 AM]
LeBron versus Jordan?
Jordan versus Artest?
I'm not saying Jordan isn't "great," but would he have been legendary if he played now?

Without question, Yes.

Jordan would eat either of those guys alive, and probably talk trash while he did it.




[Edited by - notfrye on 11-19-2005 11:05 AM]
NYKniCksFan87
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11/19/2005  11:11 AM
how bout jordan verses kwame brown?
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
NotFrye
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11/19/2005  11:16 AM
Kwame>Michael
oohah
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11/19/2005  11:19 AM
Since the Knicks suck, I pondered this question earlier this morning:

Is Jordan a legend because he came into the league a 20 years early?

If Jordan came into the league now and had to go up against Vince, T-mac, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Ray Allen, Tayshaun Prince, Artest, Lebron, etc... would Jordan still have been a legend? I say no way. Please. I would say Lebron and Artest are at least as good as Jordan was, if not better. I think Jordan played against much shorter and weaker SGs back in the 80s and 90s. The league is so much bigger, stronger, faster now and that was what made Jordan such a winner. Yes, Jordan had a "winners-mentality," "game wisdom" and that "killer instinct" but seriously, Artest and Lebron at the minimum would have crushed Jordan's guts.LeBron versus Jordan?
Jordan versus Artest?
I'm not saying Jordan isn't "great," but would he have been legendary if he played now?


Nobody dislikes Jordan more than me. But I would have to say that he would be the best. He already wupped up on a bunch of the guys you mentioned. His competition prior to that was better. Drexler, Dumars, Bird, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olujuwan, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Mullin, Robinson, etc.

Kobe is great but he is more numbers than anything, and when he did win it all, he was not the best player on his team. The only players today rolling with Jordan are Duncan and Shaq.

oohah

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rojasmas
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11/19/2005  11:20 AM
Jordan would have been the best now. Kobe is the next best thing to Jordan and Jordan used to school Kobe. Granted Kobe is better now than when MJ played him, but you get the point. That's like saying Jim Brown in football wouldn't have been dominant now. I never saw him play, but I have seen film, and Jim Brown would have been the best running back even now, no question. Some guys are timeless wonders. Jordan is one.
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eymyel827
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11/19/2005  11:24 AM
jordan has 2 things. that non of the players now have. desire to win and mental edge.
eymyel827
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11/19/2005  11:26 AM
jordan is a legend because he redefined an era. just like bird and magic. jordan wont be a legend if hes still playing. hehe.
Ira
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11/19/2005  2:13 PM
Jordan would best Kobe, McGrady, etc. He was better than they are know and will ever be.
NotFrye
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11/19/2005  2:18 PM
I think caseloads does have a good point though- the one-on-one quality players has gone up, as has the physicality of the game (coupled with zone defense), so it may decrease the level of dominance somewhat of a Jordan-in-his-prime, but I can't help but imagine he would still be dominant like shaq or TD.
BigRedDog
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11/19/2005  5:17 PM
artest as good as jordan if not better?
Ha Ha
How old are you? Did you actually see Jordan his whole career?Not only a legend but IMHO the BEST player EVER!! Jordan would eat artest for breakfast, lunch and dinner
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
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