I am hoping the Knicks lose a few more games in a row so management can come in and ship away players that are hurting the team. Marbury is not a part of the system that LB plays and we all know that. Dolan's plan is falling apart and I love it! You guys must feel the same way as well in a sense? Yes, I love the Knicks but they cannot contend for a championship now. Playoffs and then out in the first round is what would happen in my opinion, unless in a miracle they gell and get hot, but they don't have the right mix I feel. We need good players in exchange for Marbury and whoever else. Rookies are untouchable in my opinion. They are the foundation. I feel Marbury to Atlanta...Just have this gut feeling.

When Layden was here ruining the franchise it was Layden's fault.

When Isiah is here ruining the franchise it's Dolan's fault?

How exactly does that work?

It wasnt just Layden's fault. It was also Dolan & Chaney's fault.

Chaney had nothing to do with it. From the instant the Knicks extended him, he was in the hot seat. In the '02-'03 season, he did the best he could and got the team to overachieve. In the '03 - '04 season, he lost his best penetrator in Sprewell and the team sunk into a tailspin. When it started that, he had no choice but to drive Houston into the ground, b/c he was fighting for his right to stay in NY. Then suddenly, Frank Williams comes out, plays awesome and the team starts winning again then he gets injured and we start losing, yet again. Does that sound like Chaneys fault to you? No, it sounded like to me that we had a terrible team built by a bad gm, and Don Chaney had little to NO resourses to use. Was he a very good coach? Not really, but he did the best he could, and didn't deserve half the criticism he got.

When Layden was here, there was so much turbulence, but I have to disagree with Islesfan with something. I was one of the guys who actually said Dolan was WORSE than Layden. Yet now, I really don't know what to think of Isiah to be perfectly honest. He's done some great things and some absolutely terrible things.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Does that sound like Chaneys fault to you? No, it sounded like to me that we had a terrible team built by a bad gm, and Don Chaney had little to NO resourses to use.

I remember him benching Ward when he was averaging 12 assists a game in favor of Howard Eisley. The reason he gave was, "Eisley cannot play well in a backup role".

I also remember him taking out Mutombo against Milwaukee twice in crunch time when his defense was very critical to us. Later on he said, Deke couldnt keep up with anyone that was on the floor! Who says something like that about their own player?

There were more reasons, I just cannot remember them right now. I also dont want to play the blame game in the past. I was responding to isles who said Isiah isnt getting the blame, not trying to explain how bad a job Chaney was doing in the past. And yes, losing sprewell was the worst thing that happened that team at that time.

Posted by rvhoss:


I'm just wondering what exactly Isiah is to be blamed for...if anything, he should be credited for taking a job that when it was announced, everyone said he would fail miserably and leave by now, instead, the team is much improved and finally headed in the right direction.

What is he to be blamed for?

[Edited by - rvhoss on 11-11-2005 12:34 PM]

So far he has failed miserably and he doesn't leave until he can milk every dollar he can for himself.

"Much improved and heading in the right direction??? What color is the sky in your world? I'm thinking cherry colored, just like your Kool-Aid.

1- Brown is doing the same exact thing as he did with Ward and Eisley. Just with better players. Do you really think Ward was going to average anywhere close to 12 assists a game the rest of the season? It plummeted completely and it would have continued to plummet even if he got the minutes.

2- What was so false about Deke not being able to keep up with anyone? How else would you expect him to answer that question? By saying "I am loyal to Michael Doleac, that's why?" No. The guy had little to no options. Deke WAS to slow to play most players on D and Doleac was Doleac. It took Keith Van Horn about 2 months to get out of his shell. I remember the exact game that he started to break out too. It was a day or 2 before Christmas against the T-Wolves, and he hit like 10 free throws, but the Knicks lost anyway, b/c Cassell and Sprewell and and Troy were going crazy that game against our guards.

So what happened while Van Horn was in his shell? You got it. Houston had no other choice but to ruin his career right here, b/c Chaney and Layden were fighting for their jobs. And while injured, Allan actually did a good job those first few months until Marbury came. Then the ugliness came. I think Chaney and Layden should have went to Allan's retirement conference and literally kissed his ars in public, b/c they basically drove him to the ground for nothing.

But that's the type of options Chaney had. The guy had absolutely nothing to work with, besides an injured Allan.

And fans are telling me it was his fault? Look upstairs. It was Laydens and Dolans fault. If Dolan didn't have the "We must make the playoffs now, at all costs" attitude, maybe we have Okafor or Dwight Howard, today.

There were a whole number of reports that Layden was trying to get Marbury while he was still here, and Isiah pretty much just took over.

RV, what GMs have done a worse job?

Billy Knight, Bernie Bickerstaff, Elgin Baylor, (I already said Jerry West), larry harris, kevin mchale, john nash (portland), rob babcock (only 1 year so far), grunfeld is off the hook, he wan the division.

Does the fact that you asked (reversed the question...I know you are, but what am I), demonstrate the fact that you can't name ONE GM that has done better in their first two years?

Posted by Allanfan20:

RV, what GMs have done a worse job?

[Edited by - rvhoss on 11-11-2005 1:03 PM]

Isles...You there? If you need help,, try this:
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_manager.htm

But, I want to repeat the question for those that are attempting to stray ofcourse:
What GM has done a BETTER job in their first 2 years as GM?

The reason I ask is that everyone keeps saying Isiah has done a horrible job...to quote islesNONfan:
So far he has failed miserably

Just want to know what his measuring stick is...otherwise, his opinion means jack.