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I think were being UNDER-RATED
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knicks1248
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10/16/2005  11:57 AM
We have solve our most GLARING weakness since Ewing and JVG have departed.

We have a top 5 Center, a Top 5 Pg and a Top 3 coach (who stresses defense like no other) and were still listed as A likely 8th seed at best.
Am I alone on this, becuase I see us as a 4th or 5th seed at best.

Keeping AD and Penny for trade bait may even make us a contender, if the right trade can be ochstrated, or any trade ( even for a player like Grant Hill) for the matter

We were always talking about the close games we were loosing because of lack of discipline, and execution ( probably 40% of our loses). All that is destine to change sooner rather then later. Brown telling Nate that street S..t will keep you on the bench if it ever happens again ( even in a preseason game) is what we have beeen missing for a long time.

I think a lot of critics and sports analyst are going to be in for a RUDE AWAKENING ....Early.

ES
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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10/16/2005  12:03 PM
I think a lot of critics and sports analyst are going to be in for a RUDE AWAKENING ....Early.

I defeinitely agree with you on this. A good question is, how long will it ake them to chane their tune, if (IMO when) we are leading our division at the end of the year? I see alot of the past critics jumping on the wagon early.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
knicks1248
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10/16/2005  12:17 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
I think a lot of critics and sports analyst are going to be in for a RUDE AWAKENING ....Early.

I defeinitely agree with you on this. A good question is, how long will it ake them to chane their tune, if (IMO when) we are leading our division at the end of the year? I see alot of the past critics jumping on the wagon early.


Probably by the end of preseason, I also think the Lakers are severly under rated as well. I guess some people don't relize the severe Impact of having a good coach.

The crazy thing is, we see it ever single season in the NBA. Same team different coach and about a 10 to 15 game defferential

ES
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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10/16/2005  12:27 PM
I believe that there will still be some holdouts even if we have a great preseason run (Chad Fraud & his cultist followers, Frank Arse-Ola, etc.). It'll take until the holidays or the all-star break for those guys to start taking the Knicks seriously, and eat some crow.

Now we have a different team, different coach. Can it bring us a 17-win swing compared to last year? I have money on it.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
knicks1248
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10/16/2005  12:54 PM
Yeah... 17 win sounds about right, I mean did anybody think the suns were going to win 62 games. What we did know for sure is that they would collapse in the Playoffs,because they were not title contenders.
ES
Bonn1997
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10/16/2005  1:02 PM
The critics aren't gonna eat some crow. To us, their accuracy with the Knicks is all that matters. To the rest of the league it's just one more team. I bet most of these analysts underestimated the Sonics by about 15 wins last season. But the analysts don't eat crow or get any public humiliation. They just say something like "Seatle made a nice turnaround that really no one expected. Job well done by their GM" and then move on to the next topic.
WOODMANnYk
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10/16/2005  1:09 PM
I strongly believe this team will improve from last yr but you're probably looking @ 45 -47 win season which is a 12 to 14 game improvemment.. +12..


Remember this is a young, inexperience squad that will grow and get better in due time, not overnight...

This Knicks team will become an elite top 2 or 3 in the NBA probably for another 2 yrs..

The Future. GO KNICKS!
knicks1248
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10/16/2005  1:27 PM
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

I strongly believe this team will improve from last yr but you're probably looking @ 45 -47 win season which is a 12 to 14 game improvemment.. +12..


Remember this is a young, inexperience squad that will grow and get better in due time, not overnight...

This Knicks team will become an elite top 2 or 3 in the NBA probably for another 2 yrs..


Your under estimating the effects of a great coach.
ES
franco12
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10/16/2005  2:03 PM
phoenix was a surprise last year.

Until this team shows otherwise, its fair to look at us as a 33 win team that got better.

Larry Brown, great coach. But, we are young and we are a bit of a missmash team.

Might we win 50 games? I could see it.

I could also see a 38 win season.
newyorknewyork
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10/16/2005  2:51 PM
I can see us haveing a real solid yr this yr. And then seeing a lot of writers kissing our ass next season, but also throwing in some smart alec remarks to act like they were always right.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
Bonn1997
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10/16/2005  3:06 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I can see us haveing a real solid yr this yr. And then seeing a lot of writers kissing our ass next season, but also throwing in some smart alec remarks to act like they were always right.
And I could see endless comments about the payroll. "Yeah, the Knicks are good but Isiah just bought all the talent." When in reality there's almost zero correlation between payroll and victories in the NBA and Isiah made a lot of smart decisions that few GMs would have thought of even with a high payroll.

newyorknewyork
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10/16/2005  3:15 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I can see us haveing a real solid yr this yr. And then seeing a lot of writers kissing our ass next season, but also throwing in some smart alec remarks to act like they were always right.
And I could see endless comments about the payroll. "Yeah, the Knicks are good but Isiah just bought all the talent." When in reality there's almost zero correlation between payroll and victories in the NBA and Isiah made a lot of smart decisions that few GMs would have thought of even with a high payroll.

Exactly.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
franco12
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10/17/2005  9:03 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I can see us haveing a real solid yr this yr. And then seeing a lot of writers kissing our ass next season, but also throwing in some smart alec remarks to act like they were always right.
And I could see endless comments about the payroll. "Yeah, the Knicks are good but Isiah just bought all the talent." When in reality there's almost zero correlation between payroll and victories in the NBA and Isiah made a lot of smart decisions that few GMs would have thought of even with a high payroll.

For the last few years we have definitly proved that there is no correlation between payroll and victories!!
Nalod
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10/17/2005  10:14 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I can see us haveing a real solid yr this yr. And then seeing a lot of writers kissing our ass next season, but also throwing in some smart alec remarks to act like they were always right.
And I could see endless comments about the payroll. "Yeah, the Knicks are good but Isiah just bought all the talent." When in reality there's almost zero correlation between payroll and victories in the NBA and Isiah made a lot of smart decisions that few GMs would have thought of even with a high payroll.

For the last few years we have definitly proved that there is no correlation between payroll and victories!!

This is so true!

Going with rookies you have to admit is not being underratted, its just that they are just not a proven commodity.

After two games we are .500. ANd we are not blowing out people.

We have a long way to go to establish our rotation and minutes.
and it will take some time to evaluate our team and figure if they are the real deal!
franco12
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10/17/2005  10:40 AM
you know we have this huge payroll, but look at who is really likely to contribute this season:

Marbs
Curry
Craw
Q
Frye
Lee
Nate
Ariza

And I think the above is what, like a $40-50 m cap number? We have $50 m in dead weight...
efw
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10/17/2005  11:09 AM
The difference between the surprises last year (Phoenix and Seattle) was that those teams were full of veterans. It just happened that all the stars aligned so that chemistry, good coaching, and momentum engendered the turnaround.

Our team has potential but we don't have many veterans that are all of a sudden going to have that magic chemistry. I just don't see it.

I think we will win most games by good coaching and our second unit being top tier. But that won't get us a record like the 04-05 suns or Sonics.
boomann
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10/17/2005  12:15 PM
We have $50 m in dead weight

Yep that about covers Allan Houston and Penny's contracts. Now those two dudes need to give it up
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
boomann
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10/17/2005  12:16 PM
Matt Barnes is the truth
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
crzymdups
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10/17/2005  12:30 PM
Posted by franco12:

you know we have this huge payroll, but look at who is really likely to contribute this season:

Marbs
Curry
Craw
Q
Frye
Lee
Nate
Ariza

And I think the above is what, like a $40-50 m cap number? We have $50 m in dead weight...


Agreed. I'd put Malik in the useful category and JJ in the fat of the land category with Allan, Penny and MoT. Instead of guys like Penny and Allan, you just have to patrol the waiver wire and pick up a guy like Barnes every year. Cheap effort guys go a lot farther than guys you have to pay and hope they may be healthy enough to contribute some day.
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MS
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10/17/2005  1:35 PM
Seriously look at Isiahs track record aside from his drafting

The Crawford deal was terrible, we addded a player that is part of the problem, and cut Jerome Williams and both salaries count against our cap....We could have just let Mutumbo, Harrington, Williams expire at the end of the season. But there are two spots on the roster we are paying out

I really like what lee does but we could have acquired a pick to get him....Instead we add a long term deal with Rose who is taking up a roster spot in the process.....

He trades for Moochie and Amachi adding salary, and then signs vin baker and promptly sends those players back to houston for Mo Taylor who doesn't try and is never in shape......

He gives a terrible deal to Jerome James one of the worst in the offseason......and Marbury hasn't paid dividends yet although we have 45 million dollars in Penny to show.....he did bring in Lenny, terrible move so don't act like Zeke has been very good at his job, he has had the resources to make this lopsided deals that most gms wouldn't

So he had a good draft the last two years and he gets credit for that, but please don't give him credit until its due
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