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The money do talk........and will our concious haunt us?
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Nalod
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10/4/2005  9:33 AM
If AD gets released, we are picking up his massive 13 million dollar salary! And of course rather than let TT expire, we are taking AD and Curry, which adds at least 50$mil to the payroll.

IM not saying this is bad at all.

The one thing we should be talking about is Dolan allowing Isiah to do this. I give Isiah some props here, but its not like he is severely genious here as the basis for what he is doing has been the ability to take on more. Granted, its been a youth movement and could be a great draft for us last year (lets hold some judgement to actual performance over kool aid excitement!).

Thus, major props to Dolan for taking on Larry at 10 mil a year, and now once again both taking on the expense of AD and Curry, and the risk that is associated with it! Even with Dice, Dolan was willing to roll it and take on the risk although it about bought the franchise to its knees. At least he had the balls to try it then, and held on to them to do it one more time.

Most owners are not willing to do what he has done.

I have said many times when faced with comments about "we need a new owner" to be careful what you wish for. No new owner who would have to service a massive debt would ever take in a large contract like we just did and not have it insured. That was why we could do it and other teams can't!

So while Isiah should get some props, lets give a big one to the man who self insures these contracts!

ANd should it falter and perhaps Currys condition or even worse, this team is gonna catch some really bad press. Be prepared! Chicago has taken a posture of doing the right thing and protecting Eddies interrests. I thought their offer of lifetime 400K per year was generous in the event he retired due to his condition. Eddie is now married and has two kids. He is a still a child in many ways at the age of 23, and he is a father of two at the same time. Should he drop dead on us the media, and perhaps with cause will point towards the ugly greedy side of business that would allow such a thing. Eddie is entitled to make this decision himself, but the aftermath of such a tragety would have many reprocussions and perhaps will set a precedence over allowing atheletes to participate with such a life threatening condition.

The other scenario is what if Eddie is ok, but another player uses this as his basis for continuing a career and ends tragically?

This is a landmark event this trade and will have a huge effect on our franchise, but I hope its a positive one.

This trade has many many sides to it besides our fulfilling our need at center! Chicago was unwilling to cross a certain moral line that we were more than willing to. Was it the money (our ability to take on the financial risk vs. Chicagos ability?) Or did we put the franchise ahead of Eddies best interests, and his childrens?

Interesting questions!
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djsunyc
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10/4/2005  9:35 AM
i see absolutely ZERO reason for AD to be released.
first, he can't go back to chicago b/c of the gary payton nonsense last year.
second, he's an expiring deal.
third, he can still contribute something for us.
teslawlo
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10/4/2005  9:36 AM
from the chicago tribune:
Davis may not be gone long. The teams apparently have an agreement that the Knicks will release Davis and he will return to the Bulls later this month. Davis, who stands to make $13.9 million this season, is in the last year of his deal.
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djsunyc
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10/4/2005  9:38 AM
Posted by teslawlo:

from the chicago tribune:
Davis may not be gone long. The teams apparently have an agreement that the Knicks will release Davis and he will return to the Bulls later this month. Davis, who stands to make $13.9 million this season, is in the last year of his deal.


but i thought they changed the rule after the gary payton trade last year. isn't there some sort of restriction for a player to be traded and then waived where he can't go back to the same team he was traded from?
teslawlo
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10/4/2005  9:40 AM
yeah I thought so too. Maybe the tribune is wrong again? Because curry is definitely getting more than 35 million, as they initially reported. He's getting something like 6 years, $55 mill.
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Nalod
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10/4/2005  9:40 AM
If he is waived, any team can pick him up. Its a big contract, so it ain't gonna happen. I thought Payton said he'd retire if picked up.

Once AD clears waivers, he can go where he wants.

I think this is how it works.
Pharzeone
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10/4/2005  10:06 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by teslawlo:

from the chicago tribune:
Davis may not be gone long. The teams apparently have an agreement that the Knicks will release Davis and he will return to the Bulls later this month. Davis, who stands to make $13.9 million this season, is in the last year of his deal.


but i thought they changed the rule after the gary payton trade last year. isn't there some sort of restriction for a player to be traded and then waived where he can't go back to the same team he was traded from?

They definately changed the rule but I think another team may get involve because another team can just select AD from waivers and from what I understand this may be a seperate trade with the Knicks involving draft picks as well.


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fishmike
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10/4/2005  10:19 AM
I would have AD as my starting PF right now along with Curry at center. If he's gone oh well, but I hope that increases the commitment to Frye.
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Nalod
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10/4/2005  10:20 AM
Thats it, nobody has any thoughts about the the morality of the decisions that have been made by all parties?

Think Eddie, his wife, or family member has to sign a waiver relieving the knicks, bulls, or NBA of any liability in the event Eddie goes down? Where the bulls being "Pus#ies" about it? Fiscally responsable? Morally responsible? Is Eddie putting the money ahead of his family? We got doc's that say its ok to play, and another that says don't! Are the knicks as the only team to step forward being too greedy? What about puplic perceptions of the team if he dies?

We all know its a great deal if he plays well!
NYKBocker
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10/4/2005  10:25 AM
I sure hope that Eddy actually had that DNA test done and just did not give the info to Paxson. $400,000 for 50 years is not bad. Shoot, I'll take it. I'll take $100,000 for 50 years.

If he dies on the court while playing for the Knicks, Eddy and his family are the only ones to blame.
franco12
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10/4/2005  10:39 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Thats it, nobody has any thoughts about the the morality of the decisions that have been made by all parties?

Think Eddie, his wife, or family member has to sign a waiver relieving the knicks, bulls, or NBA of any liability in the event Eddie goes down? Where the bulls being "Pus#ies" about it? Fiscally responsable? Morally responsible? Is Eddie putting the money ahead of his family? We got doc's that say its ok to play, and another that says don't! Are the knicks as the only team to step forward being too greedy? What about puplic perceptions of the team if he dies?

We all know its a great deal if he plays well!


you made an excellent point that Isiah bears responsibility for Curry's life.

I would argue that Dolan has been less willing (McDyess) than stupid in allowing some basketball decisions to be made. I am afraid that unless Curry had the DNA test and knows for sure & assured IT through Crawford, we are seeing more of the quick fix mentality that led to the gamble on McDyess.
JUNKMEIN
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10/4/2005  10:40 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Eddie is now married and has two kids. He is a still a child in many ways at the age of 23, and he is a father of two at the same time.

Okay now. Let me see if I can't put this in perspective. Over the last 2 years i've spent some time surfing over on the Bulls Realgm board mainly checking up on the status and availability of Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry.

However I must comment on the quote above. I have discussed in the past how posters over there talk about Eddy Curry as if he's a "Child" and a "Dummy" and how imo they don't deserve him. Now the first thing I up and read this morning.....he's being referred to in the same way here with us. The internet is interesting in that it gives people the opportunity to vent their frustrations (i'm at the front of the line). Speaking for myself I can only say that no one can provide any proof beyond their own preconceived notions that Eddy Curry is a "Child". Pull out one example of it...and please don't say he doesn't get rebounds as an example

Infact I think it gives a peak into our own psyche when we make unfounded statements like that....hey, i'm at the top of the list. So please let's refrain from calling this guy a "Child" or "Dumb" or worse. At 22 years old with two kids I think he qualifys quite surely as an adult.....Paxson found that out the hard way (and please, no bizness about his handlers )

Thought i'd add...."Moral Lines"......Uhh, as far as who's concerned. Don't tell me no nonsense about them watching out for Curry's health. It doesn't hold water at all. Bottom line is they were using it as a way to lowball him on his contract and it bit them square on the Arse...and there's no doubt that's a fact. If he falls out on the court they're gonna give Isiah the business. However, Curry is an "Adult" capable of making sound decisions for himself and his family. At 40 i'd make the same decision he's made if it would mean financial security for my great great grand kids....i'd lay off the pork too



[Edited by - Junkmein on 10-04-2005 10:53 AM]
franco12
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10/4/2005  10:50 AM
Posted by JUNKMEIN:
Posted by Nalod:

Eddie is now married and has two kids. He is a still a child in many ways at the age of 23, and he is a father of two at the same time.

Okay now. Let me see if I can't put this in perspective. Over the last 2 years i've spent some time surfing over on the Bulls Realgm board mainly checking up on the status and availability of Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry.

However I must comment on the quote above. I have discussed in the past how posters over there talk about Eddy Curry as if he's a "Child" and a "Dummy" and how imo they don't deserve him. Now the first thing I upa and read this morning.....he's being referred to in the same way here with us. The internet is interesting in that it gives people the opportunity to vent their frustrations (i'm at the front of the line). Speaking for myself I can only say that no one can provide any proof beyond their own preconceived notions that Eddy Curry is a "Child". Pull out one example of it...and please don't say he doesn't get rebounds as an example

Infact I think it gives a peak into our own psyche when we make unfounded statements like that....hey, i'm at the top of the list. So please let's refrain from calling this guy a "Child" or "Dumb" or worse. At 22 years old with two kids I think he qualifys quite surely as an adult.....Paxson found that out the hard way (and please, no bizness about this handlers )


Having passed 23 years a long time ago, I marvel at what an idiot I was then. I think it is safe to say that someone 23 years old is a 'child'. I don't think we're calling him stupid- just when he turns 30 he is going to have a very different perspective on life.

Now, lets say he did not secretly have the DNA test, and we'd have to assume that our conjecture about that is unfounded conspiracy thinking, I would argue that not having it and trying to play in face of the possible serious consequences (death) just for $55M instead of $20M is the height of childishness. Its the sense that nothing can stop me, there are no consequences to my actions, I'm immortal.
JUNKMEIN
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10/4/2005  11:00 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by JUNKMEIN:
Posted by Nalod:

Eddie is now married and has two kids. He is a still a child in many ways at the age of 23, and he is a father of two at the same time.

Okay now. Let me see if I can't put this in perspective. Over the last 2 years i've spent some time surfing over on the Bulls Realgm board mainly checking up on the status and availability of Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry.

However I must comment on the quote above. I have discussed in the past how posters over there talk about Eddy Curry as if he's a "Child" and a "Dummy" and how imo they don't deserve him. Now the first thing I upa and read this morning.....he's being referred to in the same way here with us. The internet is interesting in that it gives people the opportunity to vent their frustrations (i'm at the front of the line). Speaking for myself I can only say that no one can provide any proof beyond their own preconceived notions that Eddy Curry is a "Child". Pull out one example of it...and please don't say he doesn't get rebounds as an example

Infact I think it gives a peak into our own psyche when we make unfounded statements like that....hey, i'm at the top of the list. So please let's refrain from calling this guy a "Child" or "Dumb" or worse. At 22 years old with two kids I think he qualifys quite surely as an adult.....Paxson found that out the hard way (and please, no bizness about this handlers )


Having passed 23 years a long time ago, I marvel at what an idiot I was then. I think it is safe to say that someone 23 years old is a 'child'. I don't think we're calling him stupid- just when he turns 30 he is going to have a very different perspective on life.

Now, lets say he did not secretly have the DNA test, and we'd have to assume that our conjecture about that is unfounded conspiracy thinking, I would argue that not having it and trying to play in face of the possible serious consequences (death) just for $55M instead of $20M is the height of childishness. Its the sense that nothing can stop me, there are no consequences to my actions, I'm immortal.

We'll have to agree to disagree then about your assumptions then. If you were a bonehead and a "child" at 23 years old you're only speaking for yourself. I'd guess that you didn't have nearly the amount of responsibility and stress on you at 23 that Curry does (another assumption). Let's have you take a DNA test first to qualify you for working at your job. This whole concept of generalizing about the mentality of certain atheletes has a familiar undercurrent to it.

So, we can either go there...or not. I'm ready.
franco12
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10/4/2005  11:06 AM
Posted by JUNKMEIN:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by JUNKMEIN:
Posted by Nalod:

Eddie is now married and has two kids. He is a still a child in many ways at the age of 23, and he is a father of two at the same time.

Okay now. Let me see if I can't put this in perspective. Over the last 2 years i've spent some time surfing over on the Bulls Realgm board mainly checking up on the status and availability of Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry.

However I must comment on the quote above. I have discussed in the past how posters over there talk about Eddy Curry as if he's a "Child" and a "Dummy" and how imo they don't deserve him. Now the first thing I upa and read this morning.....he's being referred to in the same way here with us. The internet is interesting in that it gives people the opportunity to vent their frustrations (i'm at the front of the line). Speaking for myself I can only say that no one can provide any proof beyond their own preconceived notions that Eddy Curry is a "Child". Pull out one example of it...and please don't say he doesn't get rebounds as an example

Infact I think it gives a peak into our own psyche when we make unfounded statements like that....hey, i'm at the top of the list. So please let's refrain from calling this guy a "Child" or "Dumb" or worse. At 22 years old with two kids I think he qualifys quite surely as an adult.....Paxson found that out the hard way (and please, no bizness about this handlers )


Having passed 23 years a long time ago, I marvel at what an idiot I was then. I think it is safe to say that someone 23 years old is a 'child'. I don't think we're calling him stupid- just when he turns 30 he is going to have a very different perspective on life.

Now, lets say he did not secretly have the DNA test, and we'd have to assume that our conjecture about that is unfounded conspiracy thinking, I would argue that not having it and trying to play in face of the possible serious consequences (death) just for $55M instead of $20M is the height of childishness. Its the sense that nothing can stop me, there are no consequences to my actions, I'm immortal.

We'll have to agree to disagree then about your assumptions then. If you were a bonehead and a "child" at 23 years old you're only speaking for yourself. I'd guess that you didn't have nearly the amount of responsibility and stress on you at 23 that Curry does (another assumption). Let's have you take a DNA test first to qualify you for working at your job. This whole concept of generalizing about the mentality of certain atheletes has a familiar undercurrent to it.

So, we can either go there...or not. I'm ready.


I am not generalizing about athletes, but everyone. I look at a 23 year old person and I think 'child' because when I was 23, I thought I knew it all.

Now, if you want to talk about an 18 year old getting the world handed to them on a platter, being able to drive a mercedes or ferrari and not having to worry about paying for rent, and that person being anything but a child, then sure, I suppose that might be generalizing about athletes.

what responsibility does curry have? does he have to take out the trash? no, the help does. Does he have to drive his kids to day care when his wife goes off to work? no, she doesn't need to work. Does he need to wake up every day, go off to work, get home tired just to make ends meet? no, he's got more money sitting in his bank than you or I will probably ever see in our entire lifetimes combined.
jazz74
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10/4/2005  11:10 AM
i read some good valid points that i never thought of. the fact that it is a risk is true but curry is an adult who can make his own decision. remember, he has been in the league for four years. we have seen him and chandler become immature lazy baby bulls to hard working forces in the middle. this is maturity, folks. he is married now with kids. he loves playing basketball. that is his passion. he is taking a risk but it on his terms. all we can do is think positive.
franco12
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10/4/2005  11:14 AM
Posted by jazz74:

i read some good valid points that i never thought of. the fact that it is a risk is true but curry is an adult who can make his own decision. remember, he has been in the league for four years. we have seen him and chandler become immature lazy baby bulls to hard working forces in the middle. this is maturity, folks. he is married now with kids. he loves playing basketball. that is his passion. he is taking a risk but it on his terms. all we can do is think positive.


if he hasn't had the test, and he's had at least one expert say you could die on the court, I'd argue its immature to possibly leave his wife and two kids without a father. And Curry at 23 vs, Curry at 30 are two different adults who might make very different decisions.

Hey- I am all for hoping this guy is fine healthwise. But didn't we learn from McDyess in taking on damaged goods?
JUNKMEIN
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10/4/2005  11:15 AM


Yes you are generalizing about atheletes. You have no evidence of this man being a child. You don't know what this man does in his private life. The only thing you know is that he's tall, black and can dunk a basketball at a high percentage rate (where have we heard this before).

In fact it was a very adult and mature decision to stand by his position of not submitting to the Bulls bogus demands of taking that DNA test.



[Edited by - Junkmein on 10-04-2005 11:16 AM]
franco12
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10/4/2005  11:24 AM
Posted by JUNKMEIN:



Yes you are generalizing about atheletes. You have no evidence of this man being a child. You don't know what this man does in his private life. The only thing you know is that he's tall, black and can dunk a basketball at a high percentage rate (where have we heard this before).

In fact it was a very adult and mature decision to stand by his position of not submitting to the Bulls bogus demands of taking that DNA test.



[Edited by - Junkmein on 10-04-2005 11:16 AM]


I am generalizing about 23 year olds, not athletes.

I repeat, I am generalizing about 23 year olds, not athletes.

As for the DNA test, I'm not sure it was a bogus request. Curry was unable to finish the season or help in the play offs because of his heart. One of the many experts suggested that a DNA test could rule out potential death. If I had been the Bulls GM, given what I understand to be the facts, I would have asked for the same thing.

I don't think its an adult or mature decision to risk leaving his two children fatherless in the pursuit of basketball. Evidently, the Bulls offer him a lump sum of $20m or the same amount paid out over many years if he failed the test.

$20 million is more than enough money to live on in a fair degree of comfort while trying to find work that you can do without risking immediate death.
Bippity10
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10/4/2005  11:26 AM
I think the truth is that none of us really no what is going on with Curry's heart or the situation. We are going by what we read in the papers and they don't know either. I don't think Curry would play around with his life. I think he just wanted out of Chicago. I'm sure he's taking every precaution. The papers are entertainment and are meant to get you to read. The truth is non of us have any clue about what is going on.
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The money do talk........and will our concious haunt us?

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