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did pheonix get lucky after they moved marbury?
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djsunyc
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9/19/2005  3:03 PM
just some random thoughts....

so the suns dump marbury and penny in a clear $$$ dump so they can get way under the cap. amare is there, as is marion so they're not devoid of talent BUT were they lucky to get nash? i mean if dallas and cuban stepped up to the plate and were even close to pheonix's offer, then nash remains in dallas. he said so himself - he never wanted to leave. so did the suns plan of dumping marbury only turn out to be a good move b/c cuban didn't ante up?

they still had talent and would've brought in Q and possibly manu or okur but it was clearly the nash move that put them over the top.
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Nalod
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9/19/2005  3:21 PM
tough answer. Maybe they had plan "b", or "C" for either free agency or trade scenario. Tough to say.

Luck: when opporutnity and preparation collide!

Other thing is Nash can blow his knee out any time, and so the story goes....! We know that one by the way.

I think they are much more balanced now and last year was a bit of luck. Even the coach said when Nash went down they are way too vulnerable. I think PHX got decent value back for JJ.

LIke them or not, PHX is a very interensting team regarding its buisiness model and roster changes. I admire the balls they have had to move marbs, Bring in nash, and let JJ walk.

We certainly talk about them here enough!

Its a team I will watch from time to time, and will do so again this season.

[Edited by - nalod on 09-19-2005 3:21 PM]
fishmike
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9/19/2005  3:45 PM
that trade opened up a LOT of possible moves for them. If the FA market didnt pan out its not to say they couldnt have traded for a max level player. They had a lot of talent to work with and still do. Penny was (and is) garbage and I think they thought they could just do bette with the cap space than what they were getting from the combined $32mm they were paying those 2.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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9/19/2005  3:46 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Other thing is Nash can blow his knee out any time, and so the story goes....! We know that one by the way.

yes- that's something alot of people fail to bring up.

the question with nash was how would he fare in the long run - that's why cuban didn't match. he was breaking down in the playoffs and last year, he far surpassed expectations health wise. they need to really bring in a legit backup PG - maybe it's diaw otherwise, they may be in for an h20 awakening.
djsunyc
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9/19/2005  3:49 PM
Posted by fishmike:

that trade opened up a LOT of possible moves for them. If the FA market didnt pan out its not to say they couldnt have traded for a max level player. They had a lot of talent to work with and still do. Penny was (and is) garbage and I think they thought they could just do bette with the cap space than what they were getting from the combined $32mm they were paying those 2.

yes, getting under the cap gives you plenty of options. i agree with that.

i'm just asking if they were lucky to grab nash, and if they had to go the plan B route, would the suns be a 60 win team or would they have to wait on amare transforming into a beast for another year or so.
fishmike
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9/19/2005  3:59 PM
whats plan B? If they were willing to take on that kind of $$$ back who knows whats out there? My guess is alot but you can only speculate
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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9/19/2005  4:01 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Nalod:

Other thing is Nash can blow his knee out any time, and so the story goes....! We know that one by the way.

yes- that's something alot of people fail to bring up.

the question with nash was how would he fare in the long run - that's why cuban didn't match. he was breaking down in the playoffs and last year, he far surpassed expectations health wise. they need to really bring in a legit backup PG - maybe it's diaw otherwise, they may be in for an h20 awakening.
Cuban's plan made sense if the Mavs were trying to cut payroll and be very careful/overly conservative with salaries. But a few weeks after declining to give $60 mil to the soon-to-be MVP, he gave $73 mil to ERICK DAMPIER. That's when none of it made sense to me. You can mention that Nash could blow out his knee, but even if Nash never played again, I'd take the production he had last year over whatever Dampier gives even if healthy for the duration of his contract. Hindsight is 20/20, though.


[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 09-19-2005 4:10 PM]
djsunyc
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9/19/2005  4:10 PM
Posted by fishmike:

whats plan B? If they were willing to take on that kind of $$$ back who knows whats out there? My guess is alot but you can only speculate

i'm guessing plan B was giving big game $30 mil and trading for mo taylor.
rvhoss
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9/19/2005  4:27 PM
they will be exposed this year...I'm not buying that more balanced crap.
all kool aid all the time.
s3231
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9/19/2005  6:15 PM
Yea I think if the Mavs stepped up to the plate and came close to that offer, Nash would still be a Maverick. I give Cuban some credit for not matching that offer. Yea he gave a ton of money to Dampier instead but the logic was correct. Its better to use money to get a good big man instead of a good small man. Unfortunately, Dampier is not a good big man but they took a risk.

As for the Suns, yea I think they had some luck. The Clippers could have matched that offer for Richardson, Cuban could have decided to give that same amount of money to Nash. If Nash doesn't sign with the Suns, the Suns just are not as good as they were last season. Nash was a perfect fit for that team and system they had going last season. Yes, they would still have a ton of flexibility to improve a great deal. However, it would have taken them longer to have that quick of a turnaround and no one knows for sure what would happen. With that said, the Suns had some luck but they made the right moves to give them that opportunity so they did a good job.

[Edited by - s3231 on 09-19-2005 6:22 PM]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Swishfm3
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9/20/2005  12:59 AM
The best thing the Suns did was get rid of Penny and his contract..so yes. They did get "lucky" cuz they managed to move his contract when they traded Marbury.

IMO...the Suns would have still been has successful last year if Marbury was leading them.

Nash played an important role on the team...but he didnt do anything Marbury couldnt do....and at the end of it all (the Playoffs). Nash had to pick up the scoring slack and turned into a SHOOTING PG.....JUST LIKE MARBURY.

the Key player on the team has always been A.Stoudmire

[Edited by - swishfm3 on 09-20-2005 01:01 AM]
Bonn1997
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9/20/2005  7:14 AM
Posted by Swishfm3:

The best thing the Suns did was get rid of Penny and his contract..so yes. They did get "lucky" cuz they managed to move his contract when they traded Marbury.

IMO...the Suns would have still been has successful last year if Marbury was leading them.

Nash played an important role on the team...but he didnt do anything Marbury couldnt do....and at the end of it all (the Playoffs). Nash had to pick up the scoring slack and turned into a SHOOTING PG.....JUST LIKE MARBURY.

the Key player on the team has always been A.Stoudmire

[Edited by - swishfm3 on 09-20-2005 01:01 AM]
Those are good points. It's hard to imagine the Suns being a better regular season team with Marbury or any PG other than Nash last year, but they did push the Spurs in the playoffs much harder 2 yrs ago with Marbury than last year with Nash.
MaRbUrYiSaKnIcK
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9/20/2005  7:41 AM
thats because of the improved stoudamire
Marbury is finally home at MSG!
Marv
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9/20/2005  8:14 AM
They got lucky with Nash and looked like geniuses.

We got unlucky with Dice and looked like morons.

Way it goes sometimes.

Though I hate them, i give Phoenix maximum credit for what they did last year. Couldn't really ask for much more out of a one-year turnaround than that.

Would they have been as good with Marbury at the point? I say no. Nash fit the chemistry perfectly and had one of those magic years, like Kidd's first year in NJ. Marbury's never had a whole year like that. He has parts of every year like that, but never sustained it for a season.
fishmike
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9/20/2005  8:22 AM
People in the Knicks position will say the Suns got lucky. People in the Suns position say they make their own luck. Funny how well managed teams seem to be the ones that are always getting lucky.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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9/20/2005  8:44 AM
I don't understand....some of you talk about Phoenix like they won a title....Last time I checked, the Spurs is the champion. Can we all talk about them instead of Miami or Phoenix? Let's emulate the teams that have won the big dance instead of those that were on the side line (just like the Knicks) watching...
The true Knickabocker..........
fishmike
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9/20/2005  8:53 AM
the Suns werent on the side line (just like the Knicks) they were playing in the Western Conference Finals. Thats not "just watching"
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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9/20/2005  9:14 AM
Look, they didn't win the ultimate prize; so they were losers just like the Knicks. They had a much better season than we did, but they were still losers.
The true Knickabocker..........
Marv
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9/20/2005  9:16 AM
Posted by diderotn:

Look, they didn't win the ultimate prize; so they were losers just like the Knicks. They had a much better season than we did, but they were still losers.

sorry dido, but we should be such losers.
diderotn
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9/20/2005  9:23 AM
Don't get me wrong, I would love for our Knicks to be in their shoes last season, but we need to stop b*tching about how good they are since the trade of Marburry. We nee to start looking ahead and work on our own fortune next season. We are what we are, and we will be much better next season. I do expect our record to be much bettern than Phoenix's records. That run and gun style of play will not be successful next season, because teams are more equiped to counter defensively. If you can contain Nash, they can be beat.
The true Knickabocker..........
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