Posted by djsunyc:

if steph doesn't show leadership or step up his play (not #'s wise but teamwise) with LB this season, would it be fair to call the trade for him a bust?

Posted by CTKnicksfan:

Posted by Marv:

I'd say no - the trade still would't be anywhere close to a bust. We've still gotten to watch a great player who brought life back to the Garden. What did we give up? A guy who has yet to show he has serious NBA game (Lampe), a guy who won't even play in the NBA (Vujanic), a guy who did nothing his rookie year and was already given up on by his team (Snyder), a guy who unfortunately dargged this franchise down due to an untimely trade and injury (Dice), a future protected #1 and 2 washed up point guards (Ward and Eisley). I don't think this trade will EVER be a bust.

Based on this, it still looks like we got the good end of the deal. But, consider the opportunity cost, I.E., what else those assets could have been spent on. Despite having shown nothing, at the time of the Marbury trade, Lampe was still considered a lottery talent who slipped mainly due to buyout issues. And he's still only 20, is near 7ft, he's shown some flashes, and is nowhere near ready, but I'd bet he'll be more productive than Big Game James over the next 5 years.

Vujanic's value was mininmal, but still worth something. He wasn't a lock to never play in the league as he hadn't signed an extension with his Euro team at that point. Remember how we all mocked Phoenix when he signed the extension, gloating about how we fleeced them? Point is, he was still worth something as a throw in to a trade at least.

Those expiring contracts of Dice and Ward could have brought back a near-all star PF like Sheed or Rahim, or maybe Ilgauskas who was rumored to be on the block at that time.

AND 2 first rounders, one which we still owe. And there's no guarantee that Isiah would've taken Snyder. It could have been, for example, Josh Smith.

And don't forget taking on whining, waste of space, chemistry-killing Penny Hardaway. I think there's still a good chance this trade could be seen as a bust if Marbs dosen't step up, or if he and LB clash.

Lest I be labeled a "hater", I really hope that dosen't happen. I think Marbury will step up bigtime this season, and adjust his game to LB's style the way Iverson did in Philly and Billups in Detroit. If that happens, should make for a good season.




[Edited by - ctknicksfan on 08-30-2005 9:04 PM]

[Edited by - ctknicksfan on 08-30-2005 9:06 PM]

Posted by martin:

Posted by djsunyc:

if steph doesn't show leadership or step up his play (not #'s wise but teamwise) with LB this season, would it be fair to call the trade for him a bust?

hmmm, how long did it take for AI to fit into LB's style and show leadership? 1 year or more?

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by martin:

Posted by djsunyc:

if steph doesn't show leadership or step up his play (not #'s wise but teamwise) with LB this season, would it be fair to call the trade for him a bust?

hmmm, how long did it take for AI to fit into LB's style and show leadership? 1 year or more?

LB's first year was 97/98 and they went 31-51 with a lineup of iverson, jim jackson, dc, and ratliff - not exactly world beaters and in a tough eastern conference - bulls, us, miami, indy.

next season was the strike year so that's a wash (although, they were 28-22). then in 99/00 they went 49-33.

talent-wise, we're 10X better than the 97/98 sixers so i think steph should be more successful than iverson in his first season with LB.

btw, when i mean more successful - i'm thinking .500

Posted by Bonn1997:


We're 10x better than the 97/98 Philly team? Here are the starting lineups.
G: Iverson vs. Marbury
G: Jim Jackson in his prime vs. Jamal Crawford
SF: ??? vs. Tim Thomas
PF: Derick Coleman in his prime vs. Mike Sweetney
C: Theo Ratliff vs. Jerome James

Which of those comparisons makes us 10x better than them? Maybe we have a stronger bench; I don't even remember who was on their bench. But if the starters are about even, the bench is not going to be such a huge difference as to make one team *ten* times better than the other.

Starting lineups alone cannot detail an entire team. Our bench is very deep. Overpaid, but deep. Besides, Qrich will start over either Thomas or Crawford. Probably Crawford. Now, I thought that team had Stackhouse, but I didn't look it up. The only better part of it that I can think of is the bench. Maybe 10x is an overstatement, but I think the current knicks are better than the 97-98 76ers.

Posted by CTKnicksfan:

Posted by Marv:

I'd say no - the trade still would't be anywhere close to a bust. We've still gotten to watch a great player who brought life back to the Garden. What did we give up? A guy who has yet to show he has serious NBA game (Lampe), a guy who won't even play in the NBA (Vujanic), a guy who did nothing his rookie year and was already given up on by his team (Snyder), a guy who unfortunately dargged this franchise down due to an untimely trade and injury (Dice), a future protected #1 and 2 washed up point guards (Ward and Eisley). I don't think this trade will EVER be a bust.

Based on this, it still looks like we got the good end of the deal. But, consider the opportunity cost, I.E., what else those assets could have been spent on. Despite having shown nothing, at the time of the Marbury trade, Lampe was still considered a lottery talent who slipped mainly due to buyout issues. And he's still only 20, is near 7ft, he's shown some flashes, and is nowhere near ready, but I'd bet he'll be more productive than Big Game James over the next 5 years.

Vujanic's value was mininmal, but still worth something. He wasn't a lock to never play in the league as he hadn't signed an extension with his Euro team at that point. Remember how we all mocked Phoenix when he signed the extension, gloating about how we fleeced them? Point is, he was still worth something as a throw in to a trade at least.

Those expiring contracts of Dice and Ward could have brought back a near-all star PF like Sheed or Rahim, or maybe Ilgauskas who was rumored to be on the block at that time.

AND 2 first rounders, one which we still owe. And there's no guarantee that Isiah would've taken Snyder. It could have been, for example, Josh Smith.

And don't forget taking on whining, waste of space, chemistry-killing Penny Hardaway. I think there's still a good chance this trade could be seen as a bust if Marbs dosen't step up, or if he and LB clash.

Lest I be labeled a "hater", I really hope that dosen't happen. I think Marbury will step up bigtime this season, and adjust his game to LB's style the way Iverson did in Philly and Billups in Detroit. If that happens, should make for a good season.




[Edited by - ctknicksfan on 08-30-2005 9:04 PM]

[Edited by - ctknicksfan on 08-30-2005 9:06 PM]

Posted by rvhoss:

I believe the SF was Tim Thomas in Philly.