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The Only Way to Keep BOTH Marbury & Crawford....
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bobs3304
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7/28/2005  2:03 PM
Assuming both buy into Brown's system and work hard to improve their D, the ONLY way we keep both Crawford AND Marbury is by ensuring that NEITHER is on the court at the same time. Keeping both means you will NEVER see both on the court at the same time. Why? B/c that would be, arguably, the weakest backcourt defensively in the league. Whether it's Craw at the 2-guard and Marbury running the point, or vice-versa, we will get exposed like you wouldn't believe. Talk about defensive matchups. These two CANNOT hold down the backcourt together at the same time. It's not happening. Crawford isn't strong enough at all to guard SG's, and Marbury is too short. No matter how you look at it, that would be a disaster waiting to happen. And not only that, but both guys are more or less only effective when they're handling the ball. So having both out on the floor simultaneously would spell doom for the offense. Larry Brown will never allow that to happen.

What does that mean? That probably means, if we're keeping both , that Crawford will sub-in from the bench and play both guard positions whenever Marbury is out. How many minutes is that good for exactly? Not many...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/28/2005 14:04:24]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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7/28/2005  2:05 PM
Billups, Hughes and Rip Hamilton were all considered horrible defenders at one point in their career.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
bobs3304
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7/28/2005  2:07 PM
No they weren't buddy.

Billups was always known as an average defender at the worst.
Rip was always tenacious on D, even if he was slightly less than average.
Hughes? I'm assuming you mean Larry Hughes, which has nothing to do with the Pistons. Larry averaged 3 steals a game last season. He's the same age as Crawford. Umm, point made.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
djsunyc
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7/28/2005  2:09 PM
you play marbury, craw TOGETHER with ariza, tim and frye and maybe, other teams would have to ADJUST to us.

playing 2 guys that can BOTH handle the ball and BOTH score is not a bad thing.

look at the players isiah is bringing in - marbury, craw, q, tim, ariza, lee, nate, frye - all these guy have multiple skillsets and can play multiple positions.

and many of them can be subbed in and out.

let's see how LB incorporates them before we say what we HAVE to do.

it's a clean slate. everything before today is history. let's see what it looks like over the next few months b/c larry ain't going anywhere.
bobs3304
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7/28/2005  2:12 PM
You don't believe me now, but Larry is a TRADITIONAL, NO NONSENSE coach. You think he's gonna **** around with the rotation? No way. And by the way he talked about "making moves", it seems pretty clear atleast to me that atleast one more move is in the works soon...

Crawford and Marbury can't and won't be on the floor at the same time. You CANNOT have 2 players on the floor that offer little defense and alott offense at the same time. Atleast Hughes and Arenas played solid D for the Wizards, in spite their offensive prowess...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
djsunyc
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7/28/2005  2:13 PM
you need to drink some metamucil.
bobs3304
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7/28/2005  2:15 PM
^ nice...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nyk4ever
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7/28/2005  2:17 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

No they weren't buddy.

Billups was always known as an average defender at the worst.
Rip was always tenacious on D, even if he was slightly less than average.
Hughes? I'm assuming you mean Larry Hughes, which has nothing to do with the Pistons. Larry averaged 3 steals a game last season. He's the same age as Crawford. Umm, point made.

Bob, when did you get so c-o-c-k-y, the last few days I've been reading some of your posts and they are nothing like the posts you were making a few weeks ago when you first came to this forum. Needless to say, we agree with 99% of the discussion on this board but the route your taking in trying to get your points across is becoming more and more unpleasant.

Anways.
Larry coached Hughes when they were both in Philadelphia. I wouldnt say any of those 3 are stellar defensive players but I'm sure playing around Ben Wallace and under Larry Brown could have only helped all of them. Big Bens energy and style of play are contagious and players will step up their level of play when they see someone like Ben out there doing everything it takes to win and play D.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07/28/2005 14:18:36]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
jaydh
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7/28/2005  2:21 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

am i the only one sick and tired of "trade marbury" threads....especially after we just hired Larry friggin Brown???


hmmm.... hypocrite? i think every here is tired of these posts, "marbs or crawford, one has to go."
diderotn
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7/28/2005  2:21 PM
We need a real shooting guard not a tweener like Crawfford. say what you want about Hamilton, but this cat has always been a decent defender and pretty good shooter. He is a very smart player..Crawff is a liability...

Posted by bobs3304:

You don't believe me now, but Larry is a TRADITIONAL, NO NONSENSE coach. You think he's gonna **** around with the rotation? No way. And by the way he talked about "making moves", it seems pretty clear atleast to me that atleast one more move is in the works soon...

Crawford and Marbury can't and won't be on the floor at the same time. You CANNOT have 2 players on the floor that offer little defense and alott offense at the same time. Atleast Hughes and Arenas played solid D for the Wizards, in spite their offensive prowess...
The true Knickabocker..........
jaydh
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7/28/2005  2:23 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

No they weren't buddy.

Billups was always known as an average defender at the worst.
Rip was always tenacious on D, even if he was slightly less than average.
Hughes? I'm assuming you mean Larry Hughes, which has nothing to do with the Pistons. Larry averaged 3 steals a game last season. He's the same age as Crawford. Umm, point made.

are you serious? RIP was labeled, strictly an offensive player, when with Jordan on the Wizards.
bobs3304
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7/28/2005  2:23 PM
I'm not sure you really addressed my arguement.


Back to the arguement - Crawford + Marbury = Disaster


If you disagree - say why. This has nothing to do with Larry Hughes or Ben Wallace. Although if you wanted to, you could always say that Brown has never really coached a team with two PG's in the backcourt. Eric Snow/Allen Iverson = defender/selfless distributor + defender/shooter. Billups/Rip = defender/shooter/passer + defender/shooter. I can't possibly fathom having 2 PG's in the same backcourt, especially when they don't exactly defend.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/28/2005  2:25 PM
Rip always showed defensive promise though. From what I remember, he atleast put the effort in. Crawford doesn't even do that...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Marv
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7/28/2005  2:28 PM
bobs i disagree - i think dj said it well and someone else did yesterday - lb has to get these guys to maximize their unique strengths. craw and marbs could just kill with their mutual abilities to take it to the hole and either finish or dish. they gotta really keep pressuring the other team by doing that nonstop. Sweets, Frye, Reezy and Big Game would absolutely clean up off of their stuff. JYD too.

They can both get better on D. All it takes is one thing - Larry yanks them and sits them for a few minutes after they don't put out on D. You know how embarrassing that would be for Steph on his home court in his home town? YOu don't think he'd get the message real fast? LB's got the people skills to do this and not lose him.
jaydh
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7/28/2005  2:28 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

I'm not sure you really addressed my arguement.


Back to the arguement - Crawford + Marbury = Disaster


If you disagree - say why. This has nothing to do with Larry Hughes or Ben Wallace. Although if you wanted to, you could always say that Brown has never really coached a team with two PG's in the backcourt. Eric Snow/Allen Iverson = defender/selfless distributor + defender/shooter. Billups/Rip = defender/shooter/passer + defender/shooter. I can't possibly fathom having 2 PG's in the same backcourt, especially when they don't exactly defend.

well i guess this means crawford has to go, since according to you, you are sick of all these trade marbury threads.
diderotn
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7/28/2005  2:33 PM
I want Crawfford traded for a guy like Gerald Wallace....He is a 6'7" SG that can play defense on the best of them.
The true Knickabocker..........
bobs3304
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7/28/2005  2:34 PM
I'm sick of the Marbury trades b/c you can't trade him - plain and simple. You just don't bring in a HOF coach, and trade your best player, the heart and soul of the team, for cap space. You just don't do it.

Trading Crawford, however, is something I'm def. open to. Maybe not for Harpring ( - even though I'm takin it), but nonetheless we need to address our lack of defensive players. Larry can get the most out of his players one way or the other, but some guys just can't be good defenders. Crawford is one of those guys (as I see it). And if we keep him, I just don't see him playing alongside Marbury for more than a few minutes at most. Just imagine Crawford at 6-5 190 guarding Ray Allen or T-Mac. Marbury guarding Tyronne Lue? Do you get my point yet? You need to have good symmetry on offense, good balance. Having two PG's manning the backcourt is just not Larry Brown type of basketball.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
simrud
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7/28/2005  2:35 PM
Have you even seen Wallace play?

The guy is a bonofide bust. He was on a freakin expansion team last year and failed to stand out. His boat has sailed and he totally missed it.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
bobs3304
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7/28/2005  2:36 PM
Posted by diderotn:

I want Crawfford traded for a guy like Gerald Wallace....He is a 6'7" SG that can play defense on the best of them.

and you guys think I'm bad.....
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
gunsnewing
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7/28/2005  2:43 PM
well I've stated before that Crawford and Marbury can't be on the floor together because they have no chemistry offensively and neither plays defense and are both overmatched by opposing players BUT if there is one guy who can change them around it is Larry Brown so lets at least give them a chance!
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