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ten worst free agent signings of the last 10 years
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Killa4luv
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7/28/2005  12:49 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_feature/190/20050728/the_worst_free_agent_signings_of_the_last_ten_years

I don't like this they made him #1 and thats not fair. Clearly he was over paid, but he was the only player who was even a 20 point scorer for the duration of his signing until he got hurt.
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Nalod
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7/28/2005  12:56 PM
4 of the 10 have been on our roster the last 12 months.

We made a big run for Brian Grant a few years ago. Layden tried!
Riles and heat won!
Riles also had Juwan signed for 124mil! But the contract was deemed illegal!
Pharzeone
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7/28/2005  12:58 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

http://www.realgm.com/src_feature/190/20050728/the_worst_free_agent_signings_of_the_last_ten_years

I don't like this they made him #1 and thats not fair. Clearly he was over paid, but he was the only player who was even a 20 point scorer for the duration of his signing until he got hurt.

$100 million dollar man will probably go down as the worst free agent signing in sports. I think ESPN did something like this for each sport and then for free agent signings and Houston signing was still #1.

Stern had to include the Allan Houston rule in the CBA to help out his buddy Dolan. I am sure Allan is real upset about it while he swimming in a pool of dead presidents.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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7/28/2005  1:00 PM
Posted by Nalod:

4 of the 10 have been on our roster the last 12 months.

We made a big run for Brian Grant a few years ago. Layden tried!
Riles and heat won!
Riles also had Juwan signed for 124mil! But the contract was deemed illegal!
LOL, remember when the Knicks tried real hard to get Howard too. And thought about trading for him forever.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/28/2005  1:02 PM
Well when the Allan Houston rule goes into effect, We'll cut that #1 loose. Plus, Vin Baker's deal wasn't bad enough for the #2 spot IMO.

It's funny how so many members of the media bash the Knicks whenever they can. Maybe it makes them believe they're real men or something. lol
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Silverfuel
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7/28/2005  1:02 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

$100 million dollar man will probably go down as the worst free agent signing in sports. I think ESPN did something like this for each sport and then for free agent signings and Houston signing was still #1.

Stern had to include the Allan Houston rule in the CBA to help out his buddy Dolan. I am sure Allan is real upset about it while he swimming in a pool of dead presidents.
Agreed! The Houston contract is the worst. It made him the franchise player which in turn ruined the chances of us using his shooting effectively. A low post guy with Houston would've worked a lot better. Kendall Gill Averaged 20 ppg one season so that stat is completely overrated.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Killa4luv
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7/28/2005  1:09 PM
it was not worse than the Juwan Howard or Vin Baker contract. At least the H20 was an elite player those 2 never were and Juwan's contract was for 105 million.
Caseloads
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7/28/2005  1:14 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

it was not worse than the Juwan Howard or Vin Baker contract. At least the H20 was an elite player those 2 never were and Juwan's contract was for 105 million.
what about finley and webber? their contracts suck
fishmike
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7/28/2005  1:15 PM
thats a bad list, unless your looking at it in hindsight, and if you are its still not fair. Houston was an all star, a productive and a clutch player. Everyone knows he was overpaid but its one thing to be overpaid, another to be the worst signing in sports.

Same thing with Penny, who along with Kidd were poised to be the best backcourt possibly ever. Its neither the Suns or Penny's fault he got hurt, it just happened that way.

Where is Grant Hill on that list? The Magic have payed him $70mm to play a 114 games, during which they made the playoffs once.

Where is Jim McIllvaine? The Knicks paid Chris Dudley $8mm to play 14 minutes a night as a backup!

I still dont get the blame on Houston. He was a good player for us and a key cog for winning teams. We turn Camby, LJ and Ewing into Harrington, Spoon and Kurt Thomas and people point to Houston as the reason our team went to crap. Add to the fact that Layden and Isiah have both done everything in their power to ensure Houston's contract would have no bearing on our cap by loading the roster with equally overpaid players.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Killa4luv
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7/28/2005  1:47 PM
Posted by fishmike:

thats a bad list, unless your looking at it in hindsight, and if you are its still not fair. Houston was an all star, a productive and a clutch player. Everyone knows he was overpaid but its one thing to be overpaid, another to be the worst signing in sports.

Same thing with Penny, who along with Kidd were poised to be the best backcourt possibly ever. Its neither the Suns or Penny's fault he got hurt, it just happened that way.

Where is Grant Hill on that list? The Magic have payed him $70mm to play a 114 games, during which they made the playoffs once.

Where is Jim McIllvaine? The Knicks paid Chris Dudley $8mm to play 14 minutes a night as a backup!

I still dont get the blame on Houston. He was a good player for us and a key cog for winning teams. We turn Camby, LJ and Ewing into Harrington, Spoon and Kurt Thomas and people point to Houston as the reason our team went to crap. Add to the fact that Layden and Isiah have both done everything in their power to ensure Houston's contract would have no bearing on our cap by loading the roster with equally overpaid players.
You said it right there. He was a very good player, and while he was clearly overpaid, he would have to totally suck to have that be the worst signing in sports.

Good point about Penny and Grant Hill too. You can't know if a player is going to sustain an injury they'll never fully recover from. Penny and Grant were worth every penny of that money, and if those teams were in any position to do it over again, they would pay them again. Those two were poised to be really really special players. They already were special players. That list is really stupid.

They put Allan Houston over Juwan Howard and Vin Baker?

It is so in fashion to hate on the Knicks.
Pharzeone
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7/28/2005  2:14 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

it was not worse than the Juwan Howard or Vin Baker contract. At least the H20 was an elite player those 2 never were and Juwan's contract was for 105 million.
When Juwan Howard got his money he was clearly one of the best players in the league. I remember there was talk that Howard was the better player than C-Webb. I don't know what happen to Howard and it is a real shame because his early years were off the chart.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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7/28/2005  2:20 PM
Posted by fishmike:

thats a bad list, unless your looking at it in hindsight, and if you are its still not fair. Houston was an all star, a productive and a clutch player. Everyone knows he was overpaid but its one thing to be overpaid, another to be the worst signing in sports.

Same thing with Penny, who along with Kidd were poised to be the best backcourt possibly ever. Its neither the Suns or Penny's fault he got hurt, it just happened that way.

Where is Grant Hill on that list? The Magic have payed him $70mm to play a 114 games, during which they made the playoffs once.

Where is Jim McIllvaine? The Knicks paid Chris Dudley $8mm to play 14 minutes a night as a backup!

I still dont get the blame on Houston. He was a good player for us and a key cog for winning teams. We turn Camby, LJ and Ewing into Harrington, Spoon and Kurt Thomas and people point to Houston as the reason our team went to crap. Add to the fact that Layden and Isiah have both done everything in their power to ensure Houston's contract would have no bearing on our cap by loading the roster with equally overpaid players.
Fish made the all-star team one year. That all-star stuff about him gets a little blown out of portion. Houston has never been clutch, the most dramatic shot was the Miami game 5 winning shot. No mention how many times he dribble the ball off his foot in the last second of games. It was the worst signing in all of sports because not only was he overpaid, he was over paid for no reason, no other team was going after him. At the time he wasn't considered by most in the media to be the best player on the team (Spree). Now Checketts and Layden both removed themselves from that contract. Houston was paid more for his lifestyle and in my opinion was meant as a jabbed to Spreewell who got his money before.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
lovespree
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7/28/2005  3:29 PM
I totally agree Pharzeone. Houston a "clutch" player? Yeah right. His most memorable shot, "clutch" shot was the hoop in Miami. A cluth player, your talking about players like Jordan, Kobie, Iverson, Shaq. Players that can totally dominate the game and at will get a shot off at the end of a game and the majority of the time, make the shot. Houston can not, has not ever been able to do that. Bottom line he was over paid. And like you said Pharzeone no one else in the league was checking for him at the time we gave him that contract! We out bid ourselves!

NY KNICKS 4 EVER! Will we ever find players like Anthony Mason, Xavier McDaniels, Patrick Ewing again? I hope so.
fishmike
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7/28/2005  3:43 PM
he was a 2 time time all star
In 66 playoff games he shot 44% and 42% from 3, both above his career average.

As for being clutch during his long run with the Knicks he hit just as many big shots as LJ, Spree, Childs, Ward, Ewing or anyone else, and he had just as many big games.

No... he wasnt Iverson, Jordon, Kobe or "clutch" in that regard, but he was as good as and as important as any Knicks not named Ewing in the last 20 years.

He's still overpaid, but it doesnt diminish the fact that he was a good player for a long time.

[Edited by - fishmike on 07/28/2005 15:44:30]
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Silverfuel
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7/28/2005  4:00 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

That all-star stuff about him gets a little blown out of portion.
Completely agree. Glenn Robinson, Antonio Davis, Dale Davis and Anthony Mason were all allstars the 2 years Houston went to the all star game. Kendall Gill scored 20ppg on season. Houston's stats are over rated. He was a jumpshooter. Making a jumpshooter a franchise player is stupid. They ruined any chances of using his jumpshot. They also ruined the Knicks chances of winning till his contract was up! I agree Pharzeone, Houston was not a "clutch" player. He was as clutch as most Knicks in the last 15 years but that doesnt mean he was "clutch".

A guy who doesnt defend, rebound, pass the ball, run without the ball, dribble well or penetrate does not deserve a franchise contract. Jumpshooting is important but when an offense runs around it, it is stagnant. Houstons contract was a big reason why they couldnt sorround him with real low post threat. It wasnt the only reason we sucked. It was also Layden being stupid.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
jaydh
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7/28/2005  4:01 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by fishmike:

thats a bad list, unless your looking at it in hindsight, and if you are its still not fair. Houston was an all star, a productive and a clutch player. Everyone knows he was overpaid but its one thing to be overpaid, another to be the worst signing in sports.

Same thing with Penny, who along with Kidd were poised to be the best backcourt possibly ever. Its neither the Suns or Penny's fault he got hurt, it just happened that way.

Where is Grant Hill on that list? The Magic have payed him $70mm to play a 114 games, during which they made the playoffs once.

Where is Jim McIllvaine? The Knicks paid Chris Dudley $8mm to play 14 minutes a night as a backup!

I still dont get the blame on Houston. He was a good player for us and a key cog for winning teams. We turn Camby, LJ and Ewing into Harrington, Spoon and Kurt Thomas and people point to Houston as the reason our team went to crap. Add to the fact that Layden and Isiah have both done everything in their power to ensure Houston's contract would have no bearing on our cap by loading the roster with equally overpaid players.
Fish made the all-star team one year. That all-star stuff about him gets a little blown out of portion. Houston has never been clutch, the most dramatic shot was the Miami game 5 winning shot. No mention how many times he dribble the ball off his foot in the last second of games. It was the worst signing in all of sports because not only was he overpaid, he was over paid for no reason, no other team was going after him. At the time he wasn't considered by most in the media to be the best player on the team (Spree). Now Checketts and Layden both removed themselves from that contract. Houston was paid more for his lifestyle and in my opinion was meant as a jabbed to Spreewell who got his money before.

actually detroit wanted houston, but they werent offering nearly as much as us.
gunsnewing
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7/28/2005  4:03 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Pharzeone:

That all-star stuff about him gets a little blown out of portion.
Completely agree. Glenn Robinson, Antonio Davis, Dale Davis and Anthony Mason were all allstars the 2 years Houston went to the all star game. Kendall Gill scored 20ppg on season. Houston's stats are over rated. He was a jumpshooter. Making a jumpshooter a franchise player is stupid. They ruined any chances of using his jumpshot. They also ruined the Knicks chances of winning till his contract was up! I agree Pharzeone, Houston was not a "clutch" player. He was as clutch as most Knicks in the last 15 years but that doesnt mean he was "clutch".

A guy who doesnt defend, rebound, pass the ball, run without the ball, dribble well or penetrate does not deserve a franchise contract. Jumpshooting is important but when an offense runs around it, it is stagnant. Houstons contract was a big reason why they couldnt sorround him with real low post threat. It wasnt the only reason we sucked. It was also Layden being stupid.

couldn't have said it any better..well said!
Silverfuel
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7/28/2005  4:05 PM
Posted by jaydh:

actually detroit wanted houston, but they werent offering nearly as much as us.
The bulls not the pistons were going after him. Their offer was the largest. It was 6 years 50 million. Everyone expected New York to counter with 60 million at the most.

EDIT: Atleast I dont think the pistons wanted him. They had Stack right there.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 07/28/2005 16:06:02]
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
gunsnewing
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7/28/2005  4:07 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by jaydh:

actually detroit wanted houston, but they werent offering nearly as much as us.
The bulls not the pistons were going after him. Their offer was the largest. It was 6 years 50 million. Everyone expected New York to counter with 60 million at the most.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry about that reality....we gave him $100mil for 7yrs!!!!!!
Pharzeone
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7/28/2005  4:15 PM
Posted by fishmike:

he was a 2 time time all star
In 66 playoff games he shot 44% and 42% from 3, both above his career average.

As for being clutch during his long run with the Knicks he hit just as many big shots as LJ, Spree, Childs, Ward, Ewing or anyone else, and he had just as many big games.

No... he wasnt Iverson, Jordon, Kobe or "clutch" in that regard, but he was as good as and as important as any Knicks not named Ewing in the last 20 years.

He's still overpaid, but it doesnt diminish the fact that he was a good player for a long time.

[Edited by - fishmike on 07/28/2005 15:44:30]
To me, I think Starks was a better player than Houston. While Houston had the sweetest of sweet stroke. Starks was able to take his game to another level to try and match his opposition. At times that put him in a position to try to do something with the likes of Jordan and Miller. Not only do his share of scoring but try his best to play man to man defense on them. Starks in my opinion was more clutch but he is only known for game 7 while Houston is now known for Game 5. In my opinion Spree was the proper transition from Starks who did the nasty work, playing the best 2 guard or sf there was on the opposing team while still getting his points. I guess what I am saying I like the multiple dimension guy game more.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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ten worst free agent signings of the last 10 years
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