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* Does Marbury fit in with the direction of this team? *
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TMS
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7/5/2005  11:47 AM
now that Isiah's gone after guys who can get up & down the court in this year's draft, i think it's time to re-evaluate where Marbury fits in with the talent this team currently has.

it seems to me he's more suited to a pick & roll style offense, playing in the halfcourt, w/long defenders on the perimeter to cover for his defensive lapses...the current Knicks roster is beginning to become 1 more suited to a running & gunning style, a-la the Suns & Sonics...we'll be running plenty w/Nate & Frye...Lee can get up the court too i hear...Ariza will have a year under his belt, & Craw & Q will be running & gunning as well.

if you ask me, a Stephon Marbury & Mike Sweetney trade for a guy like Kenyon Martin in a package deal w/DerMarr Johnson, Eduardo Najera & DEN's 1st round draft pick next year would give this team a definite personality that would fit in perfectly w/Isiah's vision...Marbury was a mentor to the younger players during the Olympics according to Larry Brown, & Carmelo was one of them...i think those 2 would make a dynamic combo for years to come, & they'd have Nene & Camby in the frontcourt to round out the starting 5...not a bad team right there.

as for the Knicks, they'd look like this:

C - Frye / Butler or free agent
PF - K-Mart / Rose / Lee
SF - Ariza / TT / JYD
SG - Q / DerMarr Johnson
PG - Craw / Nate
IR - Mo T / Najera

thoughts?
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diderotn
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7/5/2005  11:48 AM
TMS.....!!!Can you please stop with the b.s Marburry trades that you have been posting....??? Please...
The true Knickabocker..........
TMS
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7/5/2005  11:52 AM
Posted by diderotn:

TMS.....!!!Can you please stop with the b.s Marburry trades that you have been posting....??? Please...

diderotn
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Posted - 07/05/2005 : 11:47:29 Show Profile Reply with Quote By mid season or the trade deadline, Garnett will be a KNicks...Penny/TT/Sweetney and 2 first round draft picks will get the deal done....

-------------------
The true Knickabocker..........

hilarious.
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diderotn
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7/5/2005  11:55 AM
what does that have to do with your Marburry thread???
The true Knickabocker..........
simrud
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7/5/2005  12:03 PM
Actually if they add Nene I would do it.

Nene, Kmart, Demarr, and a future 1st rounder for Marbury and filler is the best you can ask for.

This would prolly have to be a 3 way trade where Miller goes to team for some bigs to satisfy Denver.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
fishmike
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7/5/2005  12:27 PM
I dont think its the time to trade Marbury, actually the opposite. When he was with the Suns he did a great job of pushing the ball. He did it for moments this year but the only guy that really ran was Ariza, and sometime Nazr.

Two things have to happen: Herb has to implement and uptempo style that the players buy into. The other is Marbury must push the ball looking for early offense. Either that or we move him to off guard and let Nate or Crawford push the ball.

I dont buy this notion that Marbury doesnt fit anymore. Marbury is unguardable in the open court, creating his own shot and attacking the basket takes a lot more energy then releasing and beating one or two guys going at full speed.

to me the real problem is Tim Thomas. I think if he's not getting minutes or starting he's a poison pill. even if we dont make more changes I see some exciting line ups and none of them involve TT

scoring:
Nate/Crawford/Marbury/Mo T/Frye
Marbury/Crawford/Q/Mo T/Frye
Marbury/Q/Lee/Sweetney/Frye (size/halfcort set)
Rebounding/defense:
Nate/Q/Ariza/JYD/Rose
Marbury/Ariza/JYD/Frye/Sweetney

bla bla bla... the point is there are some very creative matchups we can create with our speed and quickness on both sides of the ball. I just dont see where TT (loafer/fugazy)or Penny (old Yeller time) fit.

got forbid we keep Houston (I just ready to move on regardless) you can always use a shooter. TT/Penny just need to go away. Even Mo adds something in the right situations.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knicksfan
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7/5/2005  12:28 PM
Posted by TMS:

now that Isiah's gone after guys who can get up & down the court in this year's draft, i think it's time to re-evaluate where Marbury fits in with the talent this team currently has.

it seems to me he's more suited to a pick & roll style offense, playing in the halfcourt, w/long defenders on the perimeter to cover for his defensive lapses...the current Knicks roster is beginning to become 1 more suited to a running & gunning style, a-la the Suns & Sonics...we'll be running plenty w/Nate & Frye...Lee can get up the court too i hear...Ariza will have a year under his belt, & Craw & Q will be running & gunning as well.

if you ask me, a Stephon Marbury & Mike Sweetney trade for a guy like Kenyon Martin in a package deal w/DerMarr Johnson, Eduardo Najera & DEN's 1st round draft pick next year would give this team a definite personality that would fit in perfectly w/Isiah's vision...Marbury was a mentor to the younger players during the Olympics according to Larry Brown, & Carmelo was one of them...i think those 2 would make a dynamic combo for years to come, & they'd have Nene & Camby in the frontcourt to round out the starting 5...not a bad team right there.

as for the Knicks, they'd look like this:

C - Frye / Butler or free agent
PF - K-Mart / Rose / Lee
SF - Ariza / TT / JYD
SG - Q / DerMarr Johnson
PG - Craw / Nate
IR - Mo T / Najera
thoughts?

Irony of ironies: K-Mart and TT play on the same team. Are you sure you want that, TMS?
Knicks_Fan
Knicksfan
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7/5/2005  12:37 PM
I agree with fishmike here. Everyone keeps saying how Marbury doesn't fir this uptempo-run and gun team but forget the time he had in Phoenix. Marbury can do many things with the right cast. You can't expect him to run a lot when he doesn't has the right players to do it, like last season. Marbury may finally have a real team to rujn, so let him prove himself now.

The one that really has to go, and Penny is a given that he will go, is TT. I don't understant how people want Marbury out since he supposedly doesn't fir, yet leave TT on their projected lineups. If someone is the weakest likn now is TT..
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7/5/2005  12:38 PM
I agree with this. I think Isiah ahs fallen out of love with this guy, there are to many points towards ME bury instead od Starbury, that he seems like he is an egototistcal ball hogging stat hog who desont play defense. Like he says, when in doubt, shoot. You like to see the guy you pay 20mm$ to be a leader and a guy who can get along with everyone to promote goodd chemistry, but i dont think he is. I think Marbury is great, I think Marbury certainly is very tough, but there are many intangibles that hides some of his great talents. It seems we are trying to become more up tempo, but really Marbury is made for the halfcourt.

I think just trading him in general is tough, so its very unlikely to happen. Going after=value would never happen--Isiah wouldve have to get intangible value like the Raptors and Nuggets got for Kenyon and Carter while possibly taking back a contract to offset some of that cash.

Isiah has to deteremine whether or not he wants Steph to lead HIS club OR go in a direction we seem to be moving in, and to me it appeasr as if we are moving away from Steph.
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TMS
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7/5/2005  12:41 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Irony of ironies: K-Mart and TT play on the same team. Are you sure you want that, TMS?

intriguing, but it's an added bonus of my scenario.
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fishmike
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7/5/2005  12:46 PM
why do people think Marbury cant play in an uptempo system? Getting him out of the halfcourt will be the best thing for him. This crap where he walks the ball up court is problem A. Pushing the ball doesnt do any good when the other 4 guys are behind you.

Lets see him in motion for once.

If Nate and Craw really are the PG combo of the future than fine... get Marbury playing at a high level and trade him from a point of strength. Whats the worst? Marbury plays 2 for awhile? Its got just as many advantages as disadvantages.

22/8 players that go the the FT line 7 times a game dont grow on trees here. He's 28. Moving him now would be a horrible mistake demonstrating a huge lack of patience.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knicksfan
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7/5/2005  12:53 PM
Posted by fishmike:

why do people think Marbury cant play in an uptempo system? Getting him out of the halfcourt will be the best thing for him. This crap where he walks the ball up court is problem A. Pushing the ball doesnt do any good when the other 4 guys are behind you.

Lets see him in motion for once.

If Nate and Craw really are the PG combo of the future than fine... get Marbury playing at a high level and trade him from a point of strength. Whats the worst? Marbury plays 2 for awhile? Its got just as many advantages as disadvantages.

22/8 players that go the the FT line 7 times a game dont grow on trees here. He's 28. Moving him now would be a horrible mistake demonstrating a huge lack of patience.

Amen, fish!
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TMS
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7/5/2005  12:54 PM
i don't think he CAN'T play in an uptempo system...my point is he's more suited to a halfcourt, pick & roll style game...putting him alongside a KG or an Elton Brand would be an ideal scenario for his game, but since we're not getting either one of those guys anytime soon, the other option (& just an idea) is to trade him & getting a piece like K-Mart who fits in absolutely perfectly w/the style of game Isiah has been touting since he got here...why is it a lack of patience when you make moves that you think will improve the team? this is not a trade for the sake of making one...it balances out the roster nicely & gives us some nice athletic pieces to run that style of game...bring in a head coach like Nate McMillan & you have yourself a team with an identity...playing Marbury at the 2 is a mistake imo, & i've gone over all my reasons on several other threads...he's a player that needs to have the ball in his hands to be the most effective, not playing off the ball & launching up jumpshots while running off screens & whatnot.
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s3231
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7/5/2005  12:58 PM
Seriously, this is the worst time to trade Marbury if you want him out of here. We're coming off a losing season and a ton of people seem to be blaming Steph as usual. I think it would be a hell of a lot better to give Stephon a chance here in NY before we make a big mistake. He will have teammates that can run next season so there won't be room for excuses. Lets see how he adapts next season before we ship him out.
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tkf
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7/5/2005  1:05 PM
Posted by fishmike:

why do people think Marbury cant play in an uptempo system? Getting him out of the halfcourt will be the best thing for him. This crap where he walks the ball up court is problem A. Pushing the ball doesnt do any good when the other 4 guys are behind you.

Lets see him in motion for once.

If Nate and Craw really are the PG combo of the future than fine... get Marbury playing at a high level and trade him from a point of strength. Whats the worst? Marbury plays 2 for awhile? Its got just as many advantages as disadvantages.

22/8 players that go the the FT line 7 times a game dont grow on trees here. He's 28. Moving him now would be a horrible mistake demonstrating a huge lack of patience.

Good point fish, I know a lot of us are real excited about the new young guys on the team, but there are times you need that player like marbury who can get to the line and score when you really need some points. And then there are the games when you need that one guy to take over.. Like you said 20/8 guys don't grow on trees... I think marbury can play uptempo, actually I know he can.. I don't know where this notion that he is just a half court player came from..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
fishmike
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7/5/2005  1:07 PM
I'm with you on the uptempo thing, but I dont see a player that more benefits from such a style change as Marbury does.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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7/5/2005  1:10 PM
i don't think he CAN'T play in an uptempo system...my point is he's more suited to a halfcourt, pick & roll style game

just figured i'd repeat for those with selective hearing on this thread.
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Bonn1997
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7/5/2005  1:10 PM
Posted by TMS:
i don't think he CAN'T play in an uptempo system...my point is he's more suited to a halfcourt, pick & roll style game

just figured i'd repeat for those with selective hearing on this thread.
what did you just say?
Bonn1997
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7/5/2005  1:11 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I'm with you on the uptempo thing, but I dont see a player that more benefits from such a style change as Marbury does.
I have to agree here. With a PG with as versatile and gifted offensive skills as Marbury, I think he could shine in *either* a half-court or an up tempo style of play.
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7/5/2005  1:12 PM
Half court pick and roll style game wins championships.

And yes, marbs is suited for both.

Mar. 3. Tim Thomas uthored one of the season’s top highlight-reel efforts with thunderous dunk over Samuel Dalembert off a Marbury feed with 6:49 left in the game, keying Knicks’ game-clinching 10-0 run

http://www.knicksonline.com/downloads/index.php?select=Download&Item_id=13

[Edited by - rvhoss on 07/05/2005 13:16:39]
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