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Can Anyone Say Smarter
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TheSage
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6/30/2005  5:10 PM
All we seem to hear on this forum is younger and more athletic. The great knick teams of the late 60's and early 70's did not have a great athlete starting for them. There may have been an athlete somewhere down at the end of the bench. What they did have were thinking ballplayers, qite possibly the smartest professional team ever. They also had little height the tallest regular being Willis Reed who probably wasn't 6'9" on his tip toes. That teams produced team presidents and GMs, college professor, a US Senator, a few coaches and announcers.

Who on this team has that kind of head?
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diderotn
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6/30/2005  5:19 PM
I agree, but Isiah has gone to great lengths to provide the type of players that you have mentioned this season. It all started with the addition of Malik Rose.

Posted by TheSage:

All we seem to hear on this forum is younger and more athletic. The great knick teams of the late 60's and early 70's did not have a great athlete starting for them. There may have been an athlete somewhere down at the end of the bench. What they did have were thinking ballplayers, qite possibly the smartest professional team ever. They also had little height the tallest regular being Willis Reed who probably wasn't 6'9" on his tip toes. That teams produced team presidents and GMs, college professor, a US Senator, a few coaches and announcers.

Who on this team has that kind of head?
The true Knickabocker..........
Andrew
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6/30/2005  5:22 PM
Don't know, but adding 3 seasoned college kids is much better than high schoolers in the basketball IQ department.
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TheSage
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6/30/2005  5:22 PM
Malik and JYD may have that kind of head but they're not or should not be starters
diderotn
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6/30/2005  5:25 PM
I agree...I like the direction that we are going right now...I like the fact that Isiah chose 3 college kids instead of high schoolers...
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daddynel
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6/30/2005  5:39 PM
Posted by diderotn:

I agree...I like the direction that we are going right now...I like the fact that Isiah chose 3 college kids instead of high schoolers...
that alone should say there not exactly morons.
TheloniusMonk
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6/30/2005  5:55 PM
Posted by TheSage:

All we seem to hear on this forum is younger and more athletic. The great knick teams of the late 60's and early 70's did not have a great athlete starting for them. There may have been an athlete somewhere down at the end of the bench. What they did have were thinking ballplayers, qite possibly the smartest professional team ever. They also had little height the tallest regular being Willis Reed who probably wasn't 6'9" on his tip toes. That teams produced team presidents and GMs, college professor, a US Senator, a few coaches and announcers.

Who on this team has that kind of head?

It's very difficult to compare that team to this current NBA era. True, they weren't all that athletic but the guys in the NBA now are far more athletic (even said by Clyde himself) than when they played. Then you could get away with having an entire team that wasn't very athletic at all.
Secondly,they just had a good all around team with one of the great coaches in NBA history implimenting a system. They just bought into a team system. The team I would say was not very athletic but they were extremely disciplined, team oriented and very very talented position by position pretty much. Holzman preached sharing the ball at all costs. Swing the ball, swing the ball, swing the ball he'd say. They were of course intelligent but when you were passing the ball to a Bradley or a Reed or Frazier or a Monroe or a Debusschere you had a group of talent that is rare to have. Kinda like a Pippen, Jordan Rodman kinda thing in my opinion.

Look at Detroit as a defensive unit.....or even Iniana (with Artest). It's not always strictly about intelligence but TO ME moreso about buying into a system that works (this comes back to good coaching too). I wouldn't consider Artest a 'smart guy' but when on the court that guy just has something special. Bruce Bowen has it. Ben Wallace has it....I'm talking defensively now.

That said, we DO have to look at athleticism because if we do not, people like Amare will just walk right around an imoble player of ours on every play. I sick and tired of us ALWAYS having to double because the players on the other team are quicker to the ball, quicker to jump, quicker to recover on D and just plain superior atheletically. After all, basketball falls into the category of athletics. However I do agree that bball iq is very important. Some may disagree, but I believe that Marbury is a smart player. NOT ALL OF THE TIME. But i do believe that put around the right players the pass he just made looks much better because the person he's passing to can finish. I don't think he has a problem with moving the ball it's just that so often he finds himself in the position where he has to call his own number because of cicumstances. Who was gonna take the last few shots? Kurt? No. Mohammad? No. Tim Thomas hmmmmmm...No. Crawford? If he's on yes, if he's off No. Ariza? (see Crawford). So if I'm steph i'd have to call my own number. This is where players like Q come into play. Or Steph driving to the basket, making the center commit and then setting up Frye for a layup (or whoever our center will be).
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Killa4luv
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6/30/2005  5:55 PM
I don't think Amare, Shaq, or Ben Wallace are the players in the league who rank high in the bball IQ dept. But their athletic ability more than makes up for it.
diderotn
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6/30/2005  5:59 PM
those three players are very smart...they have continued to better their games...that is a great part of IQ...Do you know that Ben was one of the worst shooter in the league a couple of years ago??? guess what, he worked at it and now he is doing very well as scorrer..

Posted by Killa4luv:

I don't think Amare, Shaq, or Ben Wallace are the players in the league who rank high in the bball IQ dept. But their athletic ability more than makes up for it.
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TheloniusMonk
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6/30/2005  6:04 PM
Posted by diderotn:

those three players are very smart...they have continued to better their games...that is a great part of IQ...Do you know that Ben was one of the worst shooter in the league a couple of years ago??? guess what, he worked at it and now he is doing very well as scorrer..

Posted by Killa4luv:

I don't think Amare, Shaq, or Ben Wallace are the players in the league who rank high in the bball IQ dept. But their athletic ability more than makes up for it.

I don't know that improving your shot and basketball IQ are the same thing. To me, it's moreso muscle memorization. Taking shot after shot after shot in practice and when you're alone and then implimenting it in practice games and real games, to me, is what makes a person's shot better. It's a rhythm thing as far as I'm concerned.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Knicksfan
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6/30/2005  6:08 PM
Bynum had a great SAT...
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TheloniusMonk
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6/30/2005  6:10 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Bynum had a great SAT...

In that case I'm sure his shot is all net
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
PhilinLA
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6/30/2005  6:16 PM
Wow. first of all, Zeke made a point of picking three guys with great basketball IQ's on Tuesday. They all just happen to be great athletes, too.

As for the old Holtzman teams... Clyde turned down a scholarship to be a college QB to go to SIU. Dave De, was also a major league baseball player. Cazzie Russell, was freakishly athletic. Willis was a terrific athlete, Jerry Lucas was a terrific athlete... Bill Bradley wasn't explosive, but like Hondo, never stopped moving. And Earl Monroe was just sensational. They were smart players, but don't kid yourself about their athletic ability, is was excellent, and their skills were fully developed.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
Knicksfan
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6/30/2005  6:22 PM
I don't know about the others, I have to read Lee's interview, but I think that we picked up a very intelligent center in Frye. The guy is NY ready. He's been perfect at handling the media so far. The guy looks to know what he can and must do to become a better player every game.
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bigpimpin
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6/30/2005  6:24 PM
I find it funny that Andrew Bynum is on the banner of this site.

Knick fans...
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Marv
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6/30/2005  6:26 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

I find it funny that Andrew Bynum is on the banner of this site.

Knick fans...

not anymore.

check it out.
franco12
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6/30/2005  7:34 PM
No one's mentioned Phil Jackson from the Knick teams. not a bad bean on his shoulders.

Very different game-

Nash as a player is probably one I could think of that is similar to players of that era-
fishmike
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6/30/2005  7:44 PM
brains are overrated... look how much we love diderotn
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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6/30/2005  7:54 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

I don't think Amare, Shaq, or Ben Wallace are the players in the league who rank high in the bball IQ dept. But their athletic ability more than makes up for it.

I dissagree, all three of those guys are smart players, their anticipation, the way they see things develop are amazing, their athletic ablilty just gives them the wherewithall to take advantage of such atributes even more.. watch wallace and amare and even shaq, a lot of times they will spend part of the game setting up their opponents, they are quick learners, and they really understand the game...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
PhilinLA
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6/30/2005  8:24 PM
Smart matters a ton in hoops. I remember when the Celtics got Bill Walton. After awhile Bird said he really liked playing with Walton, "Cause he really knows how to play, just like me and DJ."

http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
Can Anyone Say Smarter

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