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I'm kinda down on the Q for KT trade and hope it collapses
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martin
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6/28/2005  10:22 AM
KT will be traded some time between now and the trade deadline next season, I'm convinced of that.

...but for Q? I know there is another 2007 pick coming our way - and I thought I had heard that next year's draft was not going to be as good - and I still don't like the trade.

- Q is a low FG % guy.
- Not really a great threat from downtown.
- He played well in his contract year and didn't really improve playing with Nash, Matrix, JJ, Amare, but that could have been the system.
- He does have a back history, and that could be minor but back injuries never seem to be minor.
- Is he a 2 or 3?
- Is he a lockdown type defender?
- He does post well and rebound for a 6'6" guy.

If the Knicks were getting a Bruce Bowen type of player, I would be all over this trade.

Q just reminds me of a Starks type of player AFTER his knee injury.

Saying all of that I have not really seen Q play much but I have sifted through some of the Suns and LAC boxscores.

I think the Knicks can do better for KT. Houston, Dallas, Suns, Heat would be targets.
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simrud
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6/28/2005  10:25 AM
I don't see how you can get any more for KT.

In another 2 years you will not even be able to get a 1st round pick for KT because he will be too old by then

I mean, how much more value can you get for an aging slightly overpaid (on the back end of his deal) non athletic PF whose only contribution is arguable team defense and a 15' jay.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
NYKBocker
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6/28/2005  10:29 AM
Posted by simrud:

I don't see how you can get any more for KT.

In another 2 years you will not even be able to get a 1st round pick for KT because he will be too old by then

I mean, how much more value can you get for an aging slightly overpaid (on the back end of his deal) non athletic PF whose only contribution is arguable team defense and a 15' jay.

To some teams, that would be enough. You put him in any of the 4 teams martin said and he could put them to the next round of the playoffs.
martin
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6/28/2005  10:32 AM
Posted by simrud:

I don't see how you can get any more for KT.

In another 2 years you will not even be able to get a 1st round pick for KT because he will be too old by then

I mean, how much more value can you get for an aging slightly overpaid (on the back end of his deal) non athletic PF whose only contribution is arguable team defense and a 15' jay.

maybe not MORE value for KT, but different value. I just don't like Q and his 5 years remaining on this contract. And the deep question for me is... do you see Q starting on a championship team? No.
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djsunyc
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6/28/2005  10:35 AM
here are my remix deals:

kurt + #8 + #30 for ruben + #3 and then parlay that into #5 + #13

or

kurt + #30 for artest

this trade came out of left field and probably wasn't meant to be announced till tonight or tomorrow AFTER we drafted frye or bynum. but i think you guys are right and isiah should take FULL advantage of this back insurance clause and see if he can get a better deal out there.
tkf
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6/28/2005  10:40 AM
hmm.. the delay of the trade is frustrating and if it doesn't go down then that is ok, but I like Q and if we can pull this off, I would be happy with the trade for sure..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Killa4luv
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6/28/2005  10:41 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

here are my remix deals:

kurt + #8 + #30 for ruben + #3 and then parlay that into #5 + #13

or

kurt + #30 for artest

this trade came out of left field and probably wasn't meant to be announced till tonight or tomorrow AFTER we drafted frye or bynum. but i think you guys are right and isiah should take FULL advantage of this back insurance clause and see if he can get a better deal out there.
Yeah that would be ingenious. This Q trade has [ut a stamp on KT's value and has made it high. Q was a key part of a 62 win team last year so other teams have got to be looking at Kurt with a little more respect. But for what player is the question? WHO?

Ron Ron would be nice, but next years #30 would be better, this year someone may really slip.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 06/28/2005 10:41:54]
purple012870
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6/28/2005  10:41 AM
Let's put it this was, if a swing man is selected tonight with the 8th pick, the deal is off.
Rich
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6/28/2005  10:47 AM
Three issues:

1) Taking on another contract that is longer than the one that the Knicks are giving up.

2) Q is likely to get less open looks in NY than in Phoenix. His FG% may even be worse.

3) As for Q's health, KT seems to get hurt a lot as well.
Knicksfan
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6/28/2005  10:48 AM
I don't feel bad with this deal. Any player, especially young ones that still haven't completely defined their games and have yet to play their best bball, can be part of a championship team. In fact, a swingman that can post up, get lots of rebounds and doesn't have a bad defense (something that can improve with the right coach) would be very important to any team. That gives the guard many advantages over other guards. To me this isn't a bad deal. That first round pick could be huge down the line, either for the pick or for the trade that could be done with it.

Maybe if we keep experimenting with KT's value it may backfire...
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crzymdups
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6/28/2005  10:54 AM
Posted by Rich:

Three issues:

1) Taking on another contract that is longer than the one that the Knicks are giving up.

2) Q is likely to get less open looks in NY than in Phoenix. His FG% may even be worse.

3) As for Q's health, KT seems to get hurt a lot as well.

I think Marbury will get Q plenty of open looks on the wing. I think Marbury needs a wing shooter to be effective, and I think planting Crawford there is a waste. I think Crawford should be used more off picks and in a mid-range game, let Q post up or hang in the corner.
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Knicksfan
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6/28/2005  10:59 AM
Posted by Rich:

Three issues:

1) Taking on another contract that is longer than the one that the Knicks are giving up.

2) Q is likely to get less open looks in NY than in Phoenix. His FG% may even be worse.

3) As for Q's health, KT seems to get hurt a lot as well.

Well, lets see:

1) The contract is longer, but we are taking a young player that still has potential, so he would be easier to trade than KT in a couple ofseasons.

2) In Phoenix he changed his game to benefit the team. Even he said that the trade could be a blessing because he would go back to his game. True that he wasn't a great % shooter before, but I expect his game to go back to the post-up, midrange- and sometimes 3's game for us. Considering how many shooters we have, he doesn't have to push his shots or take so many, so he should play better here. But that remains to be seen, lets get a coach first...

3) Thats why is so important to get the insurance. Q is young and if he doesn't work out here he could be traded and still have value. With the insurance, if something happens, we don't have to pay everythint. This deal must be done with the insurance...
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martin
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6/28/2005  11:04 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by Rich:

Three issues:

1) Taking on another contract that is longer than the one that the Knicks are giving up.

2) Q is likely to get less open looks in NY than in Phoenix. His FG% may even be worse.

3) As for Q's health, KT seems to get hurt a lot as well.

Well, lets see:

1) The contract is longer, but we are taking a young player that still has potential, so he would be easier to trade than KT in a couple ofseasons.

2) In Phoenix he changed his game to benefit the team. Even he said that the trade could be a blessing because he would go back to his game. True that he wasn't a great % shooter before, but I expect his game to go back to the post-up, midrange- and sometimes 3's game for us. Considering how many shooters we have, he doesn't have to push his shots or take so many, so he should play better here. But that remains to be seen, lets get a coach first...

3) Thats why is so important to get the insurance. Q is young and if he doesn't work out here he could be traded and still have value. With the insurance, if something happens, we don't have to pay everythint. This deal must be done with the insurance...

I agree with these points, but Q would have to show that he can change his game back to the mid-range, post up style. And play more D.
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Knicksfan
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6/28/2005  11:12 AM
Posted by martin:


I agree with these points, but Q would have to show that he can change his game back to the mid-range, post up style. And play more D.

Yes, for this trade to work out for the Knicks, he would have to. That would be crucial. But one thing that I like is that he seems to realize his game was different than the one he played at Phoenix, and he seems to welcome the idea of going back to that game. The fact that he prefers to play that way than the Phoenix style is encouraging that he can make the transition again...
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Nalod
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6/28/2005  11:12 AM
Need a strong and healhty back to post up!
Knicksfan
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6/28/2005  11:13 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Need a strong and healhty back to post up!

So true...
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MS
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6/28/2005  11:26 AM
Kurt lowest total for games played is 77 in the past five years, not someone who gets hurt often
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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6/28/2005  11:37 AM
As long as we fill the holes in the roster with talented youth, the trade is OK by me. We need to have that insurance though- we don't want another Luc Longley situation again leaving us holding the bill.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
gunsnewing
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6/28/2005  12:32 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by simrud:

I don't see how you can get any more for KT.

In another 2 years you will not even be able to get a 1st round pick for KT because he will be too old by then

I mean, how much more value can you get for an aging slightly overpaid (on the back end of his deal) non athletic PF whose only contribution is arguable team defense and a 15' jay.

maybe not MORE value for KT, but different value. I just don't like Q and his 5 years remaining on this contract. And the deep question for me is... do you see Q starting on a championship team? No.

I agree with Simrud. Q is only 25. If we could allow Crawford to get better why not Q. The key would be not to start both of the and be overmatched everynight and lose 60games. But if you can put Q at SG and have either Ariza(hopefully he's amazing next year) or a guy like Granger or Graham. We'll be fine especially with Q's rebounding and post up abilities!

you can't possibily get any close to Q and a #1 draft pick!
fishmike
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6/28/2005  1:43 PM
Martin I agree with all your points, but still like the trade.
-A late pick in the 2007 draft will be better or as good as a late pick in this draft. Its going to be VERY deep with all the HS/Euro kids that had to wait. Say its 20-25 thats very valueable IMO
-Q is younger and is an explosive athlete. If we are going uptempo those are two big positives
-he can play 2 positions well, and NOT because he's a tweener.
-the rebounding and post up game is good

I think its fair value (with the pick) and it balances the roster some
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I'm kinda down on the Q for KT trade and hope it collapses
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