VCoug wrote:I've made no secret of that fact that I want to trade Melo and do an actual rebuild. Short term we'll be worse but who cares? I see little value in making the playoffs as a 7/8 seed and getting swept in the 1st round vs missing the playoffs. Long term, with whatever assets we're able to get back (ideally, a package of picks from Boston in a multi-team deal involving either LAC or Cleveland) we should be better off as we build around KP and he starts to his his prime.

People(fans) always over estimate whats here--and worse DOLAN. One player isnt going to do it Rajon Rondo--we think hes going to bring us to the promised land--whats Sacramento record?

There's no band aids in building a winner. You need several blue chip prospects, a coach that's willing to nurture and grow with them, and crafty free agent pickups. Once you have the thoroughbreds in place, you can install the phucking Octagon offense and win, system doesn't matter.

So far, we're doing the complete phucking opposite...

ChuckBuck wrote:Anyone that picked option 2 isn't seeing the forest through the trees.

There's no band aids in building a winner. You need several blue chip prospects, a coach that's willing to nurture and grow with them, and crafty free agent pickups. Once you have the thoroughbreds in place, you can install the phucking Octagon offense and win, system doesn't matter.

So far, we're doing the complete phucking opposite...

This is a fair comment. Option 2 is a bit of a reach though since we need several players not 1 guy. Option 2 isn't even a real thing. Neither is option 1 because I'm fairly certain you can't make a trade like that under the current CBA without 3 or 4 teams involved and even still we would need to eat contracts to make it work.

Bonn1997 wrote:Trade him and use the 23 mil per year cap money wisely. I chose option A even though it's way too early to know that either of those players are ones to build a franchise around.

we had 27 million this yr, and the improvement is lousy, KP is shooting 41% on the season and is head south of his development. Once the full scouting report was out, just like LIN, its been a struggle for him.

And if you don't know for certain how it will turned out, what sense would it make to trade surety for uncertainty

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO it's hard to really say what we would get for Melo IF he wanted to leave, which he doesn't seem to want to do at all. He's talking about recruiting players to come here so I really don't see any hope of him waiving his NTC. Melo is talking about adding a PG like Rondo. He's making it clear he sees the problem as predominantly a backcourt issue. Him not waiving his NTC makes any trade discussion moot. All we can do is shop wisely in the FA Market and continue to find and develop our young prospects.

The smarter thing to do would be to tank HARD for 2017 lottery pick, continue to develop KP, don't spend any of the cap room this year, and save it for 2017 hoping the trifecta happens:

1)KP on the verge of All Star status
2)Top 5 Lottery pick with a stud to play along side KP
3)One of the top 3 free agents in 2017 decides to take the NY plunge.

Really, whether Melo stays or goes is irrelevant if the goal is sustained winning for the Knicks. Though a Melo trade bringing back picks would be infinitely more advantageous in speeding up the 5 to 6 year process to maybe a 4 or 5 year plan.

Most likely it wouldn't all work out so perfectly like that though. We could look at best case scenario for the other option as well. Like landing Derozen and becoming a playoff team. Then landing another quality FA the following yr when KP is now in his 3rd yr. Giving us 4 really good players and giving KP a taste of how to win and playoff competition. While also keeping our picks and building a pipeline. Which would also build NYs credibility back up as a franchise.

Regardless of what we think is best. Unless Melo is willing to waive his NTC at the draft we are going to have to wait until FA regardless. Trading Melo most likely wont be an option unless we strike out in FA, which is possible.

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO it's hard to really say what we would get for Melo IF he wanted to leave, which he doesn't seem to want to do at all. He's talking about recruiting players to come here so I really don't see any hope of him waiving his NTC. Melo is talking about adding a PG like Rondo. He's making it clear he sees the problem as predominantly a backcourt issue. Him not waiving his NTC makes any trade discussion moot. All we can do is shop wisely in the FA Market and continue to find and develop our young prospects.

The smarter thing to do would be to tank HARD for 2017 lottery pick, continue to develop KP, don't spend any of the cap room this year, and save it for 2017 hoping the trifecta happens:

1)KP on the verge of All Star status
2)Top 5 Lottery pick with a stud to play along side KP
3)One of the top 3 free agents in 2017 decides to take the NY plunge.

Really, whether Melo stays or goes is irrelevant if the goal is sustained winning for the Knicks. Though a Melo trade bringing back picks would be infinitely more advantageous in speeding up the 5 to 6 year process to maybe a 4 or 5 year plan.

Most likely it wouldn't all work out so perfectly like that though. We could look at best case scenario for the other option as well. Like landing Derozen and becoming a playoff team. Then landing another quality FA the following yr when KP is now in his 3rd yr. Giving us 4 really good players and giving KP a taste of how to win and playoff competition. While also keeping our picks and building a pipeline. Which would also build NYs credibility back up as a franchise.

Regardless of what we think is best. Unless Melo is willing to waive his NTC at the draft we are going to have to wait until FA regardless. Trading Melo most likely wont be an option unless we strike out in FA, which is possible.

I'm going option c- put Melo on cryongenic hibernation, lose better than the 76'ers and nab a top 5 talent in the draft & sign some game changers in 2017 (Westbrook, etc).

But, yes, the target horizon for building this team should be 3-5 years from now, not next year.

What I don't want them to do is just be slightly better next year and lose draft position, and then continue to get ever so slightly better, all the while KP turns into the next Patrick Ewing - lots of talent/heart without any supporting cast.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Either plan will have lots of pains. Grant has a lot of work to do as he currently can't shoot outside of 8FT. It's going to take a lot of work from him to become a long term solution and to be honest even stay in the league.

We need to be honest with ourselves with KP. Putting all of the load on his shoulders could be a complete disaster and hurt him, because he is simply not ready. He shows signs and can certainly develop into something special longer term, but once the scouting report was out this season, he has struggled for the most part. Some of it is fatigue, but other teams actually try to have a game plan and it's evident since teams have been exploiting him on defense and the defensive boards over the last 5-6 weeks.

Also, can't you not make a trade like you suggest under the current CBA? I thought they would need to take some salary back in a deal to off-set.

Probably not, but it would depend on where the cap falls. It shouldn't be too difficult to get salaries to match and the players themselves would be incidental to getting the draft picks.

newyorknewyork wrote:

franco12 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO it's hard to really say what we would get for Melo IF he wanted to leave, which he doesn't seem to want to do at all. He's talking about recruiting players to come here so I really don't see any hope of him waiving his NTC. Melo is talking about adding a PG like Rondo. He's making it clear he sees the problem as predominantly a backcourt issue. Him not waiving his NTC makes any trade discussion moot. All we can do is shop wisely in the FA Market and continue to find and develop our young prospects.

The smarter thing to do would be to tank HARD for 2017 lottery pick, continue to develop KP, don't spend any of the cap room this year, and save it for 2017 hoping the trifecta happens:

1)KP on the verge of All Star status
2)Top 5 Lottery pick with a stud to play along side KP
3)One of the top 3 free agents in 2017 decides to take the NY plunge.

Really, whether Melo stays or goes is irrelevant if the goal is sustained winning for the Knicks. Though a Melo trade bringing back picks would be infinitely more advantageous in speeding up the 5 to 6 year process to maybe a 4 or 5 year plan.

Most likely it wouldn't all work out so perfectly like that though. We could look at best case scenario for the other option as well. Like landing Derozen and becoming a playoff team. Then landing another quality FA the following yr when KP is now in his 3rd yr. Giving us 4 really good players and giving KP a taste of how to win and playoff competition. While also keeping our picks and building a pipeline. Which would also build NYs credibility back up as a franchise.

Regardless of what we think is best. Unless Melo is willing to waive his NTC at the draft we are going to have to wait until FA regardless. Trading Melo most likely wont be an option unless we strike out in FA, which is possible.

I'm going option c- put Melo on cryongenic hibernation, lose better than the 76'ers and nab a top 5 talent in the draft & sign some game changers in 2017 (Westbrook, etc).

But, yes, the target horizon for building this team should be 3-5 years from now, not next year.

What I don't want them to do is just be slightly better next year and lose draft position, and then continue to get ever so slightly better, all the while KP turns into the next Patrick Ewing - lots of talent/heart without any supporting cast.

You would be banking on top flight FAs signing to a rebuilding situation. And or that top 5 pick Turning into a stud when there is a possibility that he turns into just a solid player. The 3-5 yr estimation only works if that pick is a hit. That's y teams that rely on lotto picks usually stay there. And the teams that get the lotto pick by natural process fair better. Golden State traded for David Lee and Bogut trying to be a playoff team. Landed Draymond in the 2nd round. Klay fell to them at number 11 in the draft.

Isn't that exactly what we're doing now?