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Was the Linsanity run REAL?
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callmened
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During his run, the knicks went 16-10 which saved their season. Everyone including myself was going crazy over Linsanity. While I still think he can be a "solid" PG (averaging 14ppg,7asts); I'm concerned that he and that record might not be as impressive as we think. Here are some points to consider:

16-10 record; yet 9 of those wins were against poor non-playoff teams;

-of the 7 teams that we beat who made the playoffs, Utah (2nd game he started) wasn't a great team, Lakers still had old man Fisher at PG and couldn't guard anyone, Atlanta had no JJohnson (their best player)

-against Philly (a solid defensive team with quick lil guards) he shot 5-17 and 5-18 in 2 games

-after Miami blitzed him with suffocating trapping D, the rest of the league seemed to figure him out. Knicks went 8-6..and shot 43.2%, averaged 4 turnovers a game and his assists dropped from 8 to 6 per game

*Of course, statistics do NOT tell the whole story: a lot of these games were blowouts so he didnt play as much, STAT and MELO were in and out of the lineup ..and of course coaching changes

I just wanted to see what fans here think about Lin's future. In my opinion, the league was catching up to him; hes slow and turnover prone. Most of his success came from correctly running Dantonis system (that system will be gone next yr; woody likes to play Iso ball).

But with that said, the kid has talent and he seems to be a quick learner. I'm not worried about his shooting, heart or toughness; I'm concerned about the knee, the new offense and the league scouting report (trap Lin and make him go left)

=ned

9 votes
30%
Don't Worry Ned, Lin will be just fine - We have an All Star
16 votes
53.33%
He won't be as spectacular as the Linsanity run but he'll be a decent NBA PG for several years
3 votes
10%
He'll play well against poor teams but will disappear against good competition in the playoffs
2 votes
6.67%
I'm not buying into Linsanity; we need Nash or Dragic!
0 votes
0%
His career is over with that Knee injury; trade him while his stock is high


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Knixkik
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6/5/2012  11:19 AM
I view him as a future all-star. Fans will vote him as an all-star starter regardless, but he should be a 15-18 ppg scorer along with 7-9 apg for the forseeable future. He's a Tony Parker-type in the future in my opinion, a player who ranks between 5-8 among league PGs in his prime.
AUTOADVERT
Nalod
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6/5/2012  11:27 AM
Was it real? Yeah. YOu saw the glimpse of what could be.

Teams adjusted.

He did well with Woody.

He can get better. He could still improve.

If he was drafted today he'd be a top 10 lotto pick I think.

Pt Guard is the toughest position coming out of college. For big guys its a physical thing, but for pts the level of play is so much larger and faster they have to assimilate.

I don't what will happen but I hope we keep him and I'd like to see what happens either way.

Its why we watch the games!
nykshaknbake
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6/5/2012  12:18 PM
It was certainly real. Teams had to game plan for him and for all intents and purposes he was a first year player manning the helm of the ship. He defeintly can shoot, drive and pass as we saw. He had some nice play after the Linsanity period as well.
Anji
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6/5/2012  1:06 PM
Linsanity was the perfect storm one a couple of factors.


I don't think anybody knows what Lin is.

"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
IrishKnickFan
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6/5/2012  1:31 PM
Lin had one bad game which was the heat game. Remember he was playing insane minutes because melo amare and baron were out. Before his injury he was doing well under woody. I mean people always mentioned that he only did that against crappy team which isnt true if you watch the mavs,lakers,and pacers games.
earthmansurfer
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6/5/2012  1:47 PM
Stats can often deceive but Eyes don't lie and they more than backed up the stats. The thing that struck me the hardest was that teams were designing defenses around him and he was keeping it up. Remember also, Melo nor Stat were not playing well when they played with Lin for the most part.
I truly feel we have something special with Lin, our future starting PG and a potential all star.

Watching the Linsanity streak was the most excited thing I have ever seen as a sports fan in my life. I'm including the Giants winning some close super bowls and yankees some world series (from an individual level). He basically became Mr. October and then some for quite a few games. It was out of this world. Ok, there wasn't a championship, but it was just unbelievable. I remember after the first game thinking, it can't get an better. Then thinking that a game later. It just never stopped (until our stars came back and no offense meant to them, but Lin didn't need to be the star anymore.) I just can't see that all being a lucky streak. Magic and some other greats said it as well.

EMS

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
knicks1248
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6/5/2012  1:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/5/2012  1:50 PM
The kid could always play, he just made so many mistakes, that he never really got a chance to play through them..i remember his first comments after the nets game, when he thank MDA for giving him a chance to play through all the TO's(8) and how he kept looking over his shoulder thinking he was about to get yank..

He certainly benefitted from MDA's system and the enormous amount of PT he was getting, but there was some momments where if we had a better pg he would have gotten yank early and often, because he made some horrible decisions..The TO's were just to high..

lin IMO is a slightly above avg pg, what I love about him is his abilty to penetrate no matter who's in the paint, that seperates him from about 50% of the pg's in the NBA, he has very good court vision and a above avg IQ, and rebounds very well for a pg.

The best thing going for lin this off season, is him practicing with the olympic team, should be a real confidence booster

ES
IrishKnickFan
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6/5/2012  1:49 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:Stats can often deceive but Eyes don't lie and they more than backed up the stats. The thing that struck me the hardest was that teams were designing defenses around him and he was keeping it up. Remember also, Melo nor Stat were not playing well when they played with Lin for the most part.
I truly feel we have something special with Lin, our future starting PG and a potential all star.

Watching the Linsanity streak was the most excited thing I have ever seen as a sports fan in my life. I'm including the Giants winning some close super bowls and yankees some world series (from an individual level). He basically became Mr. October and then some for quite a few games. It was out of this world. Ok, there wasn't a championship, but it was just unbelievable. I remember after the first game thinking, it can't get an better. Then thinking that a game later. It just never stopped (until our stars came back and no offense meant to them, but Lin didn't need to be the star anymore.) I just can't see that all being a lucky streak. Magic and some other greats said it as well.

EMS

It was the best team ball we had seen from the knicks a long time.
NYKBocker
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6/5/2012  2:38 PM
I am not sure who said this in the media but I agree with it. There are 2 different types of TOs. The good and the bad. The good being TOs that are made by being aggressive and committing it in a team concept. Lin's TOs were good TOs. Also, a lot of his TOs were him getting knocked into the ground with no call from the zebras. When the refs start calling the fouls committed on Lin then you will see his TOs go down.
earthmansurfer
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6/5/2012  3:25 PM
knicks1248 wrote:The kid could always play, he just made so many mistakes, that he never really got a chance to play through them..i remember his first comments after the nets game, when he thank MDA for giving him a chance to play through all the TO's(8) and how he kept looking over his shoulder thinking he was about to get yank..

He certainly benefitted from MDA's system and the enormous amount of PT he was getting, but there was some momments where if we had a better pg he would have gotten yank early and often, because he made some horrible decisions..The TO's were just to high..

lin IMO is a slightly above avg pg, what I love about him is his abilty to penetrate no matter who's in the paint, that seperates him from about 50% of the pg's in the NBA, he has very good court vision and a above avg IQ, and rebounds very well for a pg.

The best thing going for lin this off season, is him practicing with the olympic team, should be a real confidence booster

I really don't feel just an above average PG could have done what Lin did. That was all star level. He just got tired as the season wore on.
I do agree with your positives on him pretty much, his penetration is the best part of his game in the sense that it keeps opposing teams on their heels.
He really has great court vision. IT is something to finally have a PG who see's the open man just as we do watching the game on a TV. Do you all realize how special that is? And he is just going to get better as a PG. I just hope his body keeps up considering his style.
I'll say saying his IQ is above average is an insult. His IQ is off the charts, he is like an athletic Einstein who knows how to play ball.

His TO's are really not that bad. As NYKBocker said, there are good and bad TO's. If you watched the game, his TO's were never the reason we lost. I mean a TO is basically like a missed shot, some lead to fast breaks and others not. Having 5 TO's a game and being aggressive but smart is fine in my book.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Anji
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6/5/2012  3:38 PM
If this guy turns out to be Jose Calderon V2.0....... it's going to be ugly.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
callmened
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6/5/2012  3:39 PM
you can get away with turnovers vs sacramento, detroit, cleveland etc...but can you play against elite talent like a boston, miami, OKC, spurs with that many mistakes?
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
nixluva
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6/5/2012  5:21 PM
People don't realize that Nash made a lot of TO's in the fast paced SSOL style too. 
   
Nash        GP  GS      MPG     TO
'04-'05	PHX 75	75	34.3	3.3
'05-'06	PHX 79	79	35.4	3.5
'06-'07	PHX 76	76	35.3	3.8
'07-'08	PHX 81	81	34.3	3.6
'08-'09	PHX 74	73	33.6	3.4
'09-'10 PHX 81	81	32.8	3.6
'10-'11	PHX 75	75	33.3	3.5
'11-'12 PHX 62	62	31.6	3.7
Lin         GP  GS      MPG     TO
'11-'12	NY  35	25	26.9    3.6

It's a matter of time before Lin would eventually matures and stop making so many. Many of them weren't bad passes, but him rushing into the teeth of the defense. There's a huge distinction too when your overall impact is a positive one even with the TO's.

As for the league catching him that's pure BS. He had far more games where he was effective than ones where he wasn't. Also looking at his games where he was overachieving and then bashing him when he came back down to a more realistic level is crazy. Any reasonable person knew Lin would eventually slow down and that doesn't have to mean he was a fluke, just HUMAN!

If you can't see the raw playmaking ability, the super accurate long distance passes and the pure guts he had to take and make crunchtime plays, I don't know what to say about someone's BB knowledge. You can't fake that stuff. Teams were throwing the kitchen sink at him. Star guards where taking it personal and going hard at him. All of this was in his 1st real significant minutes playing in the league!!! The pressure of NY and being the face of Asian BB was a MASSIVE amount of weight on such a young man. I think he's legit and i'm glad we gave him his shot and hopefully he gets even better as most young guards do.
callmened
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6/5/2012  5:59 PM
@nixluva - hey dude I love Lin; I'm just playing devils advocate!

good point about the nash stats...maybe playing in an up tempo MDA gives you more possessions and therefore more turnovers

overall, i think we hit the lottery with this guy..he mightve saved this franchise for the next few yrs

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
tj23
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6/5/2012  6:20 PM
He could just end up a solid PG but I think he's a real star. The injury concerns me. He has nice quickness and is elusive with the ball but I dont think he's blazing fast. He has a great bounce pass, sees the floor very well, can run the pick and roll effeciently, is very unselfish, has a solid mid range shot off the dribble, finishes very well at the rim even with contact, and plays very good smart team defense. He struggles with many lob passes, is very turnover prone, and isn't a consistent 3 pt shooter. The determining factor for me is his explosiveness. He has good quick feet and a very nice handle but can he consistently beat his man to the basket? That will determine whether he is a very nice solid starting PG or a star player that can take over the game. Either way, this is not a player we wanna let go of. I LMAO at the analysts saying he's a freakin quality backup...
CrushAlot
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6/5/2012  7:02 PM
NYKBocker wrote:I am not sure who said this in the media but I agree with it. There are 2 different types of TOs. The good and the bad. The good being TOs that are made by being aggressive and committing it in a team concept. Lin's TOs were good TOs. Also, a lot of his TOs were him getting knocked into the ground with no call from the zebras. When the refs start calling the fouls committed on Lin then you will see his TOs go down.

I think it was either JVG or Mike Greenberg (I believe Greenberg was commenting on JVG). I agree also. With a penetrating point the Knicks offense looked better than it has in many years.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Mray20
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6/5/2012  7:02 PM
Lin will be a good solid role player not a star, Dantoni's system inflates point guard production, Lin is not Steve Nash people need to relax, he has no left hand a very suspect jump shot , not a good 3 point shooter ,no defense and is a turnover machine because once he picks up the ball he doesn't make good passes especially when it happens in the paint. Dantoni let him do whatever he wanted to do which is why he put up some nice numbers but there is a reason he got cut 3 times people. I like him I want him on this team but I want him to play more under control and be a facilitator not have him drive out of control into the lane and turn the ball over and over and fall to the floor as he was doing especially when defenses figured him out.
No layups!
tj23
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6/5/2012  7:11 PM
Lin had some great left handed drives...
IrishKnickFan
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6/5/2012  7:12 PM
Mray20 wrote:Lin will be a good solid role player not a star, Dantoni's system inflates point guard production, Lin is not Steve Nash people need to relax, he has no left hand a very suspect jump shot , not a good 3 point shooter ,no defense and is a turnover machine because once he picks up the ball he doesn't make good passes especially when it happens in the paint. Dantoni let him do whatever he wanted to do which is why he put up some nice numbers but there is a reason he got cut 3 times people. I like him I want him on this team but I want him to play more under control and be a facilitator not have him drive out of control into the lane and turn the ball over and over and fall to the floor as he was doing especially when defenses figured him out.
I think you are being a little hard on teh guy. Nobody is saying he is steve nash buts its obvious the kid can really play. People talk about the turnovers way too much. Sure he has to limit turnovers but he was starting to improve on that as the season progressed. Also his defense improved a lot as the season progressed. Lin needs to keep improving but i have liked his talent ever since i saw him in the summer league 2010. Lin is not suppose to be our main start tahts melo's job and hopefully melo finally comes through next season
tj23
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6/5/2012  7:16 PM
Funny how the knicks went on a great run with Linsanity because of their defense but Lin doesn't play any defense at all? lol
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