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To foul, or not to foul. That is the questions


Author Poll
Nalod
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The raging debate continues.........
3 votes
21.43%
with under 20 seconds to go, up by three, you AWAYS foul
4 votes
28.57%
with under 20 seconds to go, up by three, you NEVER foul
1 votes
7.14%
with under 20 seconds to go, up by three, you ALWAYS foul when you know the outcome.
1 votes
7.14%
When IGOI hits $5.19 you always sell!
0 votes
0%
Truman ALWAYS defeats Dewey!
0 votes
0%
When Pete Vescey agrees with you, your ALWAYS right!
2 votes
14.29%
MDA sucks and I will never take his side.
0 votes
0%
If the Oakland A's win the world series, Brad Pitt wins the Oscar!
3 votes
21.43%
Im a better tactician with the benefit of knowing the outcome than MDA.


Author Thread
Nalod
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3/6/2012  8:18 AM
Make your vote count!
AUTOADVERT
MarburyAnd1Crossover
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3/6/2012  8:34 AM
I'm a better tactician.

Coach D'Antoni dropped Mad Wins and took the Suns balls deep in the playoffs, but still, somehow, YOU KNOW BETTER!

Come on.

Let's see Vescey take an NBA team to 60 wins and the Conference Finals.

Give break to me.

Carmelo Anthony is ANTI-BASKETBALL
Bonn1997
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3/6/2012  8:35 AM
What about "always do what Bonn says"?
Vmart
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3/6/2012  9:08 AM
I would never foul in that situation. Up by three the worst a team can do is tie the game. Send someone to the free throw line you actually make it easier to win the game for the opponents. Make two there is enough time for them to foul and get another opportunity. What if the Knicks miss their free throws now a two point fg wins the game. I have seen a lot of things happen in the NBA. Make one and miss one a back tap for three wins the game. Sometimes it's better to take a tie than actually prolong the game In regulation.

My only fault with what the Knicks did was that they didn't put pressure on the ball in the backcourt. They let that ball roll up they could have put pressure on the ball. Make them run a set they didn't want if at worst they would have fouled them but play aggressive as it was a three point lead.

mrKnickShot
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3/6/2012  9:47 AM
There ARE RAGING debates about this:

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/intentionally-fouling-up-3-points-the-first-comprehensive-cbb-analysis/

but keep being small minded when it comes to your man-crush.

- Please add: "This is a dumb pole that makes me look dumb"

Nalod
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3/6/2012  10:45 AM
mrKnickShot wrote:There ARE RAGING debates about this:

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/intentionally-fouling-up-3-points-the-first-comprehensive-cbb-analysis/

but keep being small minded when it comes to your man-crush.

- Please add: "This is a dumb pole that makes me look dumb"

Man crush?

I am consistant about one thing. Since I don't have a viable choice who I think could do better, and we finally have our pieces in place for all of 3 weeks, I don't put MDA against some mystical other choice that nobody can come up with.

Its one thing to assume MDA is not a good coach. But what are you comparing to?

How do you compare a coach with the rosters we have had and confirm he has done a good or bad job?

The guy is 10-3 with a real starting point guard. A DLeague retread of all things.

There is not statistic other than man hate to back up what he should have done.

You want Pop cuz you think he'd do what he did in SAS. You want Jax cuz he wins. BUt they don't every year BTW!

We all want to win and love our coach.

At this point I'd rather see what MDA can do with a deep team.

Its my opinion you need one more full season with summer league and full camp on day one to put it together.

Thats why I want MDA to stay.

Feel free to come up with some viable alternatives and why that makes sense. Its gonna be abstract, but at least its not monday morning second guessing on the obvious.

All coaches get burned from time to time.

SupremeCommander
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3/6/2012  10:47 AM
obviously you sell when IGOI hits $5.19
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
mrKnickShot
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3/6/2012  10:52 AM
Nalod wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:There ARE RAGING debates about this:

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/intentionally-fouling-up-3-points-the-first-comprehensive-cbb-analysis/

but keep being small minded when it comes to your man-crush.

- Please add: "This is a dumb pole that makes me look dumb"

Man crush?

I am consistant about one thing. Since I don't have a viable choice who I think could do better, and we finally have our pieces in place for all of 3 weeks, I don't put MDA against some mystical other choice that nobody can come up with.

Its one thing to assume MDA is not a good coach. But what are you comparing to?

How do you compare a coach with the rosters we have had and confirm he has done a good or bad job?

The guy is 10-3 with a real starting point guard. A DLeague retread of all things.

There is not statistic other than man hate to back up what he should have done.

You want Pop cuz you think he'd do what he did in SAS. You want Jax cuz he wins. BUt they don't every year BTW!

We all want to win and love our coach.

At this point I'd rather see what MDA can do with a deep team.

Its my opinion you need one more full season with summer league and full camp on day one to put it together.

Thats why I want MDA to stay.

Feel free to come up with some viable alternatives and why that makes sense. Its gonna be abstract, but at least its not monday morning second guessing on the obvious.

All coaches get burned from time to time.

I did not say he is not doing a good/better job or am I calling for his job. There is no mention of that at all and you are just assuming and being defensive.

I called him out (as well as other coaches - it happened twice more last night) because I disagree with the end game management / philosophy employed in that game.

It is a VALID argument (search the web and read about it - its a HARVARD study) and belittling it is defensive and small minded.

Would / Can YOU ever call him out for a perceived mistake? Blunder? Anything?

arkrud
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3/6/2012  11:00 AM
This game was lost in overtime when Knicks went back to one-on-one ball under pressure.
If you are talking about winning team this team should win in OT.
We don't and we have some ways to go.
In general it was good game and I don't mind to lose a good game.
And the foul/no-foul.. it is a dark area.... It is not easy to fall and make refs think it is not shooting foul.
Especially in Boston where all calls go one way.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nychamp
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3/6/2012  11:14 AM
OP, thanks for contributing to the further suckitude of this forum with your cutesy and useless little poll. And I thought there might be an actual conversation inside this thread. Waste of bandwidth!
Bonn1997
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3/6/2012  11:41 AM
mrKnickShot wrote:There ARE RAGING debates about this:

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/intentionally-fouling-up-3-points-the-first-comprehensive-cbb-analysis/

but keep being small minded when it comes to your man-crush.

- Please add: "This is a dumb pole that makes me look dumb"


Thanks for the link. I had a feeling there was no difference between the two strategies and this debate was much ado about nothing.
Nalod
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3/6/2012  11:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/6/2012  12:29 PM
nychamp wrote:OP, thanks for contributing to the further suckitude of this forum with your cutesy and useless little poll. And I thought there might be an actual conversation inside this thread. Waste of bandwidth!

Thank you for exemplifying a judicious use of bandwith in reponse!

Cutesy does have its merits!

Nalod
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3/6/2012  11:52 AM
mrKnickShot wrote:There ARE RAGING debates about this:

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/intentionally-fouling-up-3-points-the-first-comprehensive-cbb-analysis/

but keep being small minded when it comes to your man-crush.

- Please add: "This is a dumb pole that makes me look dumb"


Good article and study.

Basically, no conclusion.

Thus, the hate is pre determined

mrKnickShot
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3/6/2012  12:16 PM
Nalod wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:There ARE RAGING debates about this:

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/intentionally-fouling-up-3-points-the-first-comprehensive-cbb-analysis/

but keep being small minded when it comes to your man-crush.

- Please add: "This is a dumb pole that makes me look dumb"


Good article and study.

Basically, no conclusion.

Thus, the hate is pre determined

That's the point of the article. There is no conclusion since its pretty much a statistical dead heat, hence, the need for human brains/game time decisions based on real time variables.

I guess Harvard studies are not meant for the laymen kvetch. They should have dumbed it down.

eViL
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3/6/2012  12:27 PM
where were all the threads congratulating MDA on not calling a timeout at the end of regulation against the Raptors when Lin hit the game-winner? that was MDA's strategic choice (i.e. to not let the defense get a chance to set up and prepare) and it worked. brilliant late game strategy. not one thread about it. lol.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
arkrud
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3/6/2012  12:48 PM
eViL wrote:where were all the threads congratulating MDA on not calling a timeout at the end of regulation against the Raptors when Lin hit the game-winner? that was MDA's strategic choice (i.e. to not let the defense get a chance to set up and prepare) and it worked. brilliant late game strategy. not one thread about it. lol.

Offensive brilliance, defensive stupor... What's new?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
ChuckBuck
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3/6/2012  12:54 PM
arkrud wrote:
eViL wrote:where were all the threads congratulating MDA on not calling a timeout at the end of regulation against the Raptors when Lin hit the game-winner? that was MDA's strategic choice (i.e. to not let the defense get a chance to set up and prepare) and it worked. brilliant late game strategy. not one thread about it. lol.

Offensive brilliance, defensive stupor... What's new?

+1 The Mike Martz of the NBA

markvmc
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3/6/2012  1:25 PM
Didn't notice that we're 5th in defensive ratings this season?
Nalod
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3/6/2012  1:33 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:There ARE RAGING debates about this:

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/intentionally-fouling-up-3-points-the-first-comprehensive-cbb-analysis/

but keep being small minded when it comes to your man-crush.

- Please add: "This is a dumb pole that makes me look dumb"


Good article and study.

Basically, no conclusion.

Thus, the hate is pre determined

That's the point of the article. There is no conclusion since its pretty much a statistical dead heat, hence, the need for human brains/game time decisions based on real time variables.

I guess Harvard studies are not meant for the laymen kvetch. They should have dumbed it down.

It only relevant when the knicks lose and the coach could have made a different call.

Win its all good, lose the coach sucks. Welcome to "the best basketball fans in he world"!

Its NY, the Mecca!

Bonn1997
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3/6/2012  2:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/6/2012  2:34 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:There ARE RAGING debates about this:

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/intentionally-fouling-up-3-points-the-first-comprehensive-cbb-analysis/

but keep being small minded when it comes to your man-crush.

- Please add: "This is a dumb pole that makes me look dumb"


Good article and study.

Basically, no conclusion.

Thus, the hate is pre determined

That's the point of the article. There is no conclusion since its pretty much a statistical dead heat, hence, the need for human brains/game time decisions based on real time variables.

I guess Harvard studies are not meant for the laymen kvetch. They should have dumbed it down.


Conclusions can be debated. The conclusion I take from the study is that whichever strategy you use, you'll lose about 10% and win about 90% of the time in that situation. There is no research I'm aware of showing that when guys with big brains (you or anyone else) determine the last second decision, there's a higher than 90% success rate with either strategy.
To foul, or not to foul. That is the questions

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