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Starpuching now or later?


Author Poll
EnySpree
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Member: #397

Debate...... 2010: Its a key date for teams to get under the cap. Most of the Knicks contracts go off the books but there still will have to be some contracts moved in order to make it happen. Max money? Yup, cuz Lebron, Wade, Bosh? Yeah dude they will be commanding nothing less than Max money if they are healthy and still on top of their games. By 2010, are we talking almost 15-20 below the cap? Its gonna be hard while still trying to put a compeditive team out there. Lee and Nate re-ups? Its gonna be tough to get under deep enough to essentially starphuch and not even be guarenteed anything. After the 2010 summer the knicks could still be a bottom bitch team with money and no superstar. Do we even want a team with a Christ figure? We did that with Ewing. Even immortals need help around them to win. Say the Knicks do in fact sign Lebron in 2010......who will be on this team to help him win a nba championship? Do we force Lebron to be Mitch Richmond and KG on the timberwolves until the Knicks figure out how the hell they are gonna win with him? 2008's draft pick is equally important cuz the Knicks won't have a pick in one of the next few drafts before 2010. 2008: The Knicks as of right now have a monster expiring contract in Stephon Marbury. They also have Malik Rose's contract who makes just as much as any 2nd tier player would. They have #6 in the draft along with Lee, Nate, Chandler, Balkman and Collins to pawn off. Zach, though labeled a loser and cancer by most, is still a legit double double machine. Curry is still a big bastard that is still unguardable one on one. Bottom line the Knicks have some heavy nutts type ammunition to play with. The Knicks could quite possibly do what Boston did and snag 2 all-star players and maybe even a 3rd one.....they even have a mid-level exemption to play with. This is all without completely throwing 2010 away. Some names out there.....Jermaine O'neal, Brad Miller, Artest, Baron Davis, Josh Howard, Marion, Redd, Vince Carter, Melo, Camby, Iggy, Marvin Williams, Mike Miller, Gilbert Arenas, etc.....the Knicks can realistically get 2 and maybe 3 of these guys with the assets I mentioned. The Knicks right now under new management/coaching can pick a combination of the right players and do it right this time as far as fit and chemistry. Boston added Garnett(pf) and Ray Allen(sg) to Paul Pierce(sf). Wow. The Knicks could essentially do the same thing in their own way. In any rate, the Knicks can still work it in a way to still have a shot @ 2010 via cap space or via sign and trade. Bottom line: I'm not even trying to paint the picture towards starphuching in 2008. Its worth while to look to 2010 if you don't your dead. The Knicks need to win anyway they can, and as soon as they can. Just giving up for 2 years is again....dead! So what do we do bitches?
2 votes
22.22%
Starphuch in 2008
7 votes
77.78%
Starphuch in 2010


Author Thread
TMS
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6/12/2008  9:51 PM
i say we keep our options open at least til 2010... a smaller signing or acquisition is fine but there are no players available to use like a KG that can turn around our entire franchise right now... if there are i'd like to hear better candidates than guys like Baron Davis, Josh Howard, Marion, Redd, Vince Carter, Iggy, Marvin Williams, Mike Miller or Gilbert Arenas.

i don't think we have any shot at Melo & i wouldn't wanna throw every single asset & cap space we have to go after him cuz then what will be left over once again? it's the same argument as going after Lebron or Wade or Bosh or Amare or anyone else in 2010.

i don't mind trading Marbs for JO or Brad Miller since it doesn't effect our cap in 2010 anyways... a MLE signing of Artest is also fine cuz for the money you're not gonna get much better in terms of quality & talent as far as i'm concerned... a S&T for Jefferies, Chandler & Mardy would be my dream, but i don't see that happening... they'd probably want Malik's expiring & Chandler at the very least... i wouldn't mind Camby but only if he came at a reasonable dollar amount & for 2 years max w/a team option for a 3rd... he's too long in the tooth to be signing to any really longterm deals at this point.
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EnySpree
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6/13/2008  12:11 AM
I hear you TMS.....but what if the Knicks got 2 or even 3 of them?

Malik and Chandler? Can artest opt out? Mle? Maybe sactown wants Zach?

Marbs for jermaine oneal or baron or arenas? maybe washington wants an inside presence and takes Curry and a filler?

How good would a team with say:

David Lee
Artest
Jermaine oneal
Arenas
Craw

It could happen if it was worked right. This group could have arenas and craw playing like arenas and hughes did together....artest cleans up their pieces......jermaine is the defensive presence and rebounder and david lee can go nuts with jermaine watchin his back.....its crazy. Why not though?

Maybe Dallas decides they need a truck to get a double team? They trade Curry for Howard? Knicks trade Zach for camby? Marbs for baron?

David lee
Howard
Camby
Baron
Craw

#6 and Malik for a resigned iggy? Curry to toronto for tj? Marbs for jermaine? Zach for Artest and a filler?

Lee
Artest
Jermaine
Craw
Iggy

Knicks can play with it. They definately can get 2 of these guys or maybe 3......without even screwing up 2010. If Donnie can do it then he should.

The only think that should stop a starphuch is some how trading up and getting Beasley or Mayo. Love falling to 6. Some **** like that.

I personally believe Donnie should look to seriously improve this team and set it up for a guy like Lebron or Wade to wanna sign here. They aren't coming just cuz the Knicks have money. They wanna win too.

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nyk4ever
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6/13/2008  12:14 AM
I'll starphuch later. We've tried starphuching for years and it's gotten us nowhere. It's time to draft and mold a few young building blocks, let our salary situation run it's course and see what we got with our drafts. When the time comes and we have a few young pieces in place and we need a vet to even things out is when I'll start thinking about starphuching again.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TMS
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Member: #674
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6/13/2008  2:32 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

I hear you TMS.....but what if the Knicks got 2 or even 3 of them?

Malik and Chandler? Can artest opt out? Mle? Maybe sactown wants Zach?

Marbs for jermaine oneal or baron or arenas? maybe washington wants an inside presence and takes Curry and a filler?

How good would a team with say:

David Lee
Artest
Jermaine oneal
Arenas
Craw

It could happen if it was worked right. This group could have arenas and craw playing like arenas and hughes did together....artest cleans up their pieces......jermaine is the defensive presence and rebounder and david lee can go nuts with jermaine watchin his back.....its crazy. Why not though?

Maybe Dallas decides they need a truck to get a double team? They trade Curry for Howard? Knicks trade Zach for camby? Marbs for baron?

David lee
Howard
Camby
Baron
Craw

#6 and Malik for a resigned iggy? Curry to toronto for tj? Marbs for jermaine? Zach for Artest and a filler?

Lee
Artest
Jermaine
Craw
Iggy

Knicks can play with it. They definately can get 2 of these guys or maybe 3......without even screwing up 2010. If Donnie can do it then he should.

The only think that should stop a starphuch is some how trading up and getting Beasley or Mayo. Love falling to 6. Some **** like that.

I personally believe Donnie should look to seriously improve this team and set it up for a guy like Lebron or Wade to wanna sign here. They aren't coming just cuz the Knicks have money. They wanna win too.

to be honest i don't see any of those teams being serious playoff contenders & to me none of those guys are cornerstone franchise talent that you wanna build an entire franchise around, so why bother? i'm sure the team will be much improved & get into the playoffs but what then? i'm getting tired of 1st & 2nd round exits out of the playoffs & i don't mind waiting if i have to in order to catch that big fish the way the Celtics did this past offseason & land a guy like KG... until that opportunity comes along i don't wanna mess up our cap even more than it is now by signing guys like Davis or Arenas to big money contracts... i just don't think they're worth it.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
NYKBocker
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6/13/2008  9:10 AM
I voted 2010 but Iggy in a D'Antoni system just boggles the mind. He would be a superstar in this system. An athletic freak that can run all day and hit an outside shot is the perfect cog for D'Antoni.

ehhh...I still wait for 2010. Small moves my friend..small moves.
Nalod
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6/13/2008  10:26 AM
Credit to the Celts for pulling off a great starphuch season.

The bottom line was Ray and KG are good professionals and taught PP well.

Ray is a pleasure to watch. The anti Pierce. KG is a mental case and struggles but they really pulled off a great game last nite.

I'd like to see MikeD' system in place an see if any of our bone head players value increase in a decent system.

I am hopeful Eddy can return to a good place with him. ZDumb may be too far gone but we can hope he matures and can buy into a team concept.

Marbury should be exiled in any event. It would be nice if he really came on and also bought in to a winning mentality. The only way he stays is to resign for vets minimum to exemplify his commitment to NYC and desire to win.

He has enough money to last 10 lifetimes. If he turns to the dark side again you just cut him. Very simple. No more Starbury. Just Stephan the player.

Ok, a guy can dream right? ANd in that dream Jerome loses 40 lbs and plays 10 min a game, Zach gets traded and the front line of Dlee with Eddy is one of the best in the east!
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
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Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

6/13/2008  11:27 AM
Ok well in 2010 the knicks have to be 15-20 mill under the cap to even sniff Lebron, or Wades, etc agent. Who will be here to play with these guys? Anthony Randolph? And a resigned d lee, Craw? Who @ point? Where are the Knicks going?

Lateral moves.....nice.....but who do we get? Ok most of us agree Zach and or Curry have to go but if Curry is so fat and Lazy and Zach is such a douche......what chance do the Knicks have at trading them? We've talked about it hard body on this forum, but who are we kidding? Clevland might very well take Zach for Ben Wallace....who else realistically would take him?

Are we stuck? Not if the Knicks get gully and starphuch. That means trying to get 2 of the attainable guys around the league.

Artest and Baron? That's as easy.....Malik, Lee, and Marbury......tada!

Zach
Artest
Curry
Baron
Craw

Could this group win now? 5 20pt scorers? It worked in 1969-70 and 72-73. The Showtime lakers had a starting 5 that could average 20pts a piece anywhere in the league. Birds Celtics did too.......simmer down now!.....what if D'antoni just told Zach to board hard and hit the open jumper? What if D'antoni told Curry to focus on boards and finishing around the basket? What if he told Baron and Craw to kick, push and coast? What if he gave artest rock and told him to score like he was doing in sactown?......and yeah....the cap is barely effected while hodling on to picks. Why not bitches? Why not?
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TMS
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6/13/2008  3:29 PM
cuz i says so bitch.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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6/13/2008  3:58 PM
let's say we are somehow able to unload Zach's contract for 1 that expires a year sooner... that leaves this team w/the following guaranteed salaries for the 2010 season (rounded off & assuming D Lee & Nate are re-signed):

Curry $11m
Jamal $10m
D Lee $7m
Jefferies $7m
Nate $6m
Balk $3m
Mardy $3m
'08 pick $3m
'09 pick $2m
Chandler $2m

10 salaries totalling ~$54mil. To fill at least 3-4 more roster spots you would have ~$10mil in cap space if you factor in an average of a salary cap increase annually of ~3m per season from now til 2010. i don't think it's impossible to think we can somehow unload $5m in cap space that year & still have a good core of young players to play w/whoever we target in free agency (assuming Walsh drafts well this year & next).

or say Walsh decides to trade Lee & the pick this year to move up to #3 & nabs Mayo & he turns out to be the goods... we'd have plenty of cap room to go after a premier FA in 2010 & still have a good enough team to contend & build upon.

this is why that Zach contract absolutely murders any chance whatsoever that we have of future flexibility... as long as he's on this roster our options are severely hampered... & this is also why we need to be VERY careful of how we utilize the MLE from here til 2010 also... we can't afford to be signing any players unless we're absolutely sure they'll produce for us... another Turd or Jefferies signing could really set us back once again.

time to learn from past mistakes... aim for cap flexibility & then weigh your options then... we're not winning any titles til 2010 regardless unless we somehow have an offseason like the Celtics just had, & i don't see any KG's out there ripe for the taking right now.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Starpuching now or later?

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