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Which way do you view Donnie Walsh's decision to retain Isiah?
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islesfan
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There are only 2 ways to view this: Donnie Walsh is Dolan's puppet and doesn't have the autonomy that they said he has. Isiah obviously still has Dolan's ear and can influence all decisions made by Walsh while remaining out of the media's spotlight. Donnie Walsh is a complete moron who thinks that Isiah is worth listening to, even after Isiah destroyed this entire franchise. Despite talking about how terrible shape this franchise is in and how much work it will take to even begin to fix it, Donnie Walsh thinks that the architect of it all is someone who should be kept and consulted with. Either way, it doesn't bode well for this franchise as they try to fix this mess. Donnie Walsh's honeymoon is over and he's lost all the patience that would have been afforded him if he had chosen to go with a clean slate.
4 votes
50%
Donnie Walsh is Dolan's puppet
4 votes
50%
Donnie Walsh is a moron who thinks that Isiah is worth listening to.


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SlimPack
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4/18/2008  9:14 PM
I don't think Donnie Walsh would be a puppet. I also don't think the situation is as clear cut as you're making it out to be. but if I had to select one from the pole it would be the moron one.
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Uptown
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4/18/2008  9:27 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

I don't think Donnie Walsh would be a puppet. I also don't think the situation is as clear cut as you're making it out to be. but if I had to select one from the pole it would be the moron one.

I agree (maybe being more hopefull than realistic). He doesn't have an official title and will report directly to Walsh. Not sure what he's going to report. But on the other side of the fence, the fact that Isiah was president and coach, I think if walsh does hire a GM, it can/might get a little sticky. There was no need to retian Isiah in any compacity especially when you figure that if he was fired, he would still recoup his dough. I'm confused, nauseated, disgusted, upset, and still hopefull all at the same time.

[Edited by - Uptown on 04-18-2008 11:35 PM]

[Edited by - Uptown on 04-18-2008 11:35 PM]
islesfan
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4/18/2008  9:43 PM
If it's not as clear cut as that, then what am I missing?

How awkward is it going to be for the currect team president, the future G.M. and the future head coach to be around the guy that they replaced as he's hanging around being all buddy buddy with the team owner?

I think the better poll would have been:

Who get's an extension first:

Donnie Walsh

or

Isiah Thomas?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
K22
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4/18/2008  10:12 PM
The only thing I got out of this whole situation is that, despite Zeke being demoted to what looks to be a placeholder pseudo-job, I really question how "autonomous" Donnie Walsh really is.
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
Solace
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4/18/2008  10:35 PM
Posted by K22:

The only thing I got out of this whole situation is that, despite Zeke being demoted to what looks to be a placeholder pseudo-job, I really question how "autonomous" Donnie Walsh really is.

Seconded. I don't think what's going on is exactly clear cut, but clearly Isiah having any role is a negative. The only question will be how much influence he has. I think that will reveal itself with the style of moves made. Time will tell.

If Isiah is merely hiding behind the scenes for a few years in order to take over in the future once Walsh fixes his mess, I'll puke.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Uptown
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4/18/2008  11:17 PM
Isiah has no official title. No one reports to Isiah and Isiah only reports to Walsh. The way I see it, Walsh may use some of Isiahs insights for the upcoming draft. If you remember, Walsh spoke of people being in place within the organization who has already been scouting players in a "very important draft" as Walsh put it.

After the draft, Isiah will not have much of a role. Isiah will be a name in Walsh's Rolodex that he can consult with and bounce an idea or two off of, but other than that,Isiah will have no say in the daily operations of the team. Dont think we will see nor hear from Isiah again.

[Edited by - Uptown on 04-18-2008 11:18 PM]
loweyecue
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4/18/2008  11:20 PM
I dont know, its easy to be too critical without undersanding the full picture. I am extremly frustrated that the jack*** is still around but is DW giving him an option to exit gracefully? I wouldn't believe Isiah is capable of leaving but with everything going on may be he can negotiate a buyout as well? Give me 10 Mill, and I'll walk, u can keep the other 6 or something like that?

But its also completely possible that this really is a dog and pony show and Dolan forced Donnie to keep Isiah. In which case the so called full independence is hogwash.

But I think we have to wait and watch and see what pans out in the next few months before jumping to conclusions.
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SlimPack
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4/18/2008  11:24 PM
Posted by islesfan:

If it's not as clear cut as that, then what am I missing?

How awkward is it going to be for the currect team president, the future G.M. and the future head coach to be around the guy that they replaced as he's hanging around being all buddy buddy with the team owner?

I think the better poll would have been:

Who get's an extension first:

Donnie Walsh

or

Isiah Thomas?

Is it bad that I have no absolutely no answer to this question?

I dont know, just maybe, Isiah just isn't the conniving, weaselish, con man mastermind, obsessed with getting back on top of the Knicks organization that you think he is. Maybe, he's just a guy who's lost just about all of the responsibility he's had and will eventually seek out a job elsewhere after basically doing nothing but collecting a check for a few months.

Well actually I guess that was an answer. Well it wasn't much of one. I'll admit that much.
arkrud
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4/18/2008  11:27 PM
You missed the point guys.
Isiahs position is OMSGS - Official MSG Scapegoat.
And what he will be instructed to do is repeat "Thank You! Thank You! It's all my fault".
It will be another 2-3 years of miserable losing and they will need Isiah to be around and do this job.
Tuff position but hey... it is paid well enough.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
4949
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4/18/2008  11:30 PM
The sad thing is 'non of this has anything to do with basketball'. We been reduced to soaps. But it makes sense. Soaps were invented in chicago and here we have a chicago boy from the west side of chicago who created what? 'A soap opera'.

That old chicago psychology I been telling you's about. Don't ask me how I know this.
I'll never trust this' team again.
SlimPack
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4/18/2008  11:50 PM
Posted by arkrud:

You missed the point guys.
Isiahs position is OMSGS - Official MSG Scapegoat.
And what he will be instructed to do is repeat "Thank You! Thank You! It's all my fault".
It will be another 2-3 years of miserable losing and they will need Isiah to be around and do this job.
Tuff position but hey... it is paid well enough.
arkrud
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4/18/2008  11:52 PM
Posted by 4949:

The sad thing is 'non of this has anything to do with basketball'. We been reduced to soaps. But it makes sense. Soaps were invented in chicago and here we have a chicago boy from the west side of chicago who created what? 'A soap opera'.

That old chicago psychology I been telling you's about. Don't ask me how I know this.

Isn't the live in US a soup opera all together?
Isiah and Knicks just one small episode.




[Edited by - arkrud on 04-18-2008 11:52 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
arkrud
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4/18/2008  11:53 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by arkrud:

You missed the point guys.
Isiahs position is OMSGS - Official MSG Scapegoat.
And what he will be instructed to do is repeat "Thank You! Thank You! It's all my fault".
It will be another 2-3 years of miserable losing and they will need Isiah to be around and do this job.
Tuff position but hey... it is paid well enough.


LOL
So true...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
ramtour420
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4/19/2008  12:04 AM
Well, didn't Donnie say something to the extent of these decisions being very importand for the ppl involved. And how its human lives and careers we are talking about here. So it could have nothing to do with not having autonomy nor being retarded. I think its him being a man, a gentleman and not wanting to ruin ppl, Isiah in this case being the main person of interest.
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
4949
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4/19/2008  12:06 AM
Posted by ramtour420:

Well, didn't Donnie say something to the extent of these decisions being very importand for the ppl involved. And how its human lives and careers we are talking about here. So it could have nothing to do with not having autonomy nor being retarded. I think its him being a man, a gentleman and not wanting to ruin ppl, Isiah in this case being the main person of interest.

Take your pick. Ruin someone or be miserable.
I'll never trust this' team again.
ramtour420
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4/19/2008  12:39 AM
Maybe this is the only way to avoid both. At this point we con only poke at the sky with our finger: does he have full autonomy? is dolan gonna do anything if Isiah tells him stuff? will Isiah just leave after a year or 2? what is the new escapegoat position officially called? who will Donnie select as his successor here? what exactly did Jamal mean when he said"i take it personally"?
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
nyk4ever
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4/19/2008  2:22 AM
Isles man, I like you. But honestly, Isiah has no ****ing position within this organization. Dolan doesn't want to pay him 18mill for nothing so he's doing ****ing SCOUTING. Thats NOTHING. I'm sorry, but I disagree with you right now.
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Bippity10
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4/19/2008  9:47 AM
Our biggest problem in NY the past 20 years or so is that we have not functioned like one unit. Coach has a style, GM finds players that fit that style. Marketing team promotes that style. Owner pays the players so we can get the best that fit that style etc. Instead we have always had GM vs. Coach vs. owner vs. players. Isiah the last 4 years has been a major part of that.

Isiah has undermined everyone and everybody for four years. Why do we think it will stop now? He still has Dolan's ear. Of course we all have to let it play out. But in the back of my mind it will nag me until this guy is completely gone.

And finally: Why is it that Patrick Ewing can't find a spot with the Knicks and yet we can get rid of Isiah Thomas who is a "Piston for life"

[Edited by - bippity10 on 19-04-2008 09:49 AM]
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OasisBU
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4/19/2008  10:17 AM
I think there should be more than 2 options here. While I dont agree with keeping Isiah on staff, I also dont think Donnie is a moron or a puppet.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
TheGame
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4/19/2008  11:12 AM
Walsh said no one answers to IT and IT basically only talks to him. IT will probably help out with scouting and the draft and that will probably be the extent of his duties (and as a scout, he has shown a decent eye for talent). For the 20 mill or so that Dolan still owes him, Dolan wanted the benefit of his scouting abilities and probably to stick it to the fans a little to show everyone he still does what he wants. However, the fact remains that IT is unofficially retired from the Knicks. I doubt you will see him more than once or twice next season.
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