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ot - the joba rules


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djsunyc
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joba rules: pitches 1 inning - 1 day off pitches 2 innings - 2 days off some history: joba is a starter - always has been. this is the first time he's been asked to relieve in his life. they put him on a max inning count of 120 before the season even started. the reasoning? the yankees feel that young pitchers that get thrown into the fire tend to end up with arm problems (prime example is kerry wood). so they want to protect their future with joba. so the joba rules, do you agree or not?
6 votes
40%
agree
4 votes
26.67%
disagree
5 votes
33.33%
not sure


Author Thread
TMS
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8/27/2007  11:04 PM
I agree w/David Justice's take on it. Control his # of pitches, not his innings. If he throws 5 pitches 1 night, let him pitch the next day. If he has a long inning & throws 30 pitches, rest him 2 days. Right now we're not getting max value out of using Joba this way. We get to see him pitch 1 inning maybe twice a week at best. I'd rather start him in place of Moose instead & rest him 4 days in between like he's accustomed to than do it this way.
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JohnWallace44
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8/28/2007  12:24 AM
they're right to be cautious with the kid, he's the future.
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earthmansurfer
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8/28/2007  4:33 AM
Posted by TMS:

I agree w/David Justice's take on it. Control his # of pitches, not his innings. If he throws 5 pitches 1 night, let him pitch the next day. If he has a long inning & throws 30 pitches, rest him 2 days. Right now we're not getting max value out of using Joba this way. We get to see him pitch 1 inning maybe twice a week at best. I'd rather start him in place of Moose instead & rest him 4 days in between like he's accustomed to than do it this way.

That is a great point but only partly accurate. Remember, he has to warm up first, so even though he may throw (think is was like 9 pitches in a recent outing) he threw allot more than that in the warmups. He is very efficient, but the warmups need to be weighed in here.

Any ideas how much warming up might affect a pitchers arm, because I've heard it mentioned before.

By the way, the guy is a phenom.

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TMS
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8/28/2007  9:33 AM
warming up once is not going to effect this guy's arm durability... it's when you get up & then sit down, then get up again that it starts wearing on you... the Yankees aren't using him like a true reliever, so there's no worry in that at all... this kid came up as a starter & that's what he's used to, so using him as such shouldn't hurt his development... if it does then we have much more to worry about w/this kid than just pampering his arm.

i am not saying leave this kid out there to throw 120 pitches every start... control his pitch counts & use him as a starter, because right now we're NOT making any playoffs w/o him taking Moose's spot in the rotation IMO... leaving him to sit in the pen & not using him unless it's the absolute perfect spot is pretty counterproductive, both to his development as well as to this team's hopes to make the postseason
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franco12
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8/28/2007  9:37 AM
there is a big difference between pitching as a starter and as a reliever- I would honestly think they would be better using him as a long inning/spot starter- that would probably simulate the same kind of schedule as a starter-
VDesai
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8/29/2007  10:22 AM
I agree with them. The rules might be too strict, but once you allow any subjectivity in their intepretation, you run the risk of the rules being bent and Joba being overworked. We gotta be very careful with him, cause he's gonna be a low cost ace very soon.
TMS
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8/29/2007  3:30 PM
this kid hasn't even thrown 100 innings yet this season & they're treating him with kid gloves... now they're calling up their #1 draft pick Ian Kennedy after 149 innings in the minors this year to take the next start in the rotation? where's the consistency in that line of thinking?
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VDesai
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8/29/2007  5:35 PM
It's not about being consistent- the needs were different when both moves were made. Moose had been pitching well for a time and Hughes was ready to come back to assume the fifth spot in the rotation when Joba was moved to the pen. Its way to taxing to turn Joba from starter to reliever to starter in the same season (especially with no prep time) so he can't be considered to be an option for Moose's spot now.

It's not just the pure innings count, but also how he's used and how is arm is taxed that will ultimately put him at a high risk for arm trouble.
TMS
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8/29/2007  6:23 PM
I can understand their concerns over that, & again I wanted to give Kennedy a look before resorting to the Joba alternative... just that I feel this whole "pitch 1 inning, rest the next day" automatic is a little silly... it should be based on pitches thrown, not innings pitched IMHO.
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VDesai
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8/29/2007  10:10 PM
Well, it certainly would've been nice to not have the Joba rules tonight instead of Farnsworth..
EnySpree
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8/29/2007  10:54 PM
This joba rules stuff is ridiculous. Did Ching ming Wang go through this? Andy pettite?

Its like buying a cake and being told to save some for your lil sister. A week goes by and that cake is still there. In the meantime there has been other cake. So why the hell did I save the cake again? Now the cake is spoiled so I have to look for some more ****ing cake.
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TMS
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8/30/2007  2:04 AM
Posted by VDesai:

Well, it certainly would've been nice to not have the Joba rules tonight instead of Farnsworth..

boy, it's a damn good thing ARod hit that HR or else Farns woulda blew Rocket's awesome performance tonight
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djsunyc
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8/30/2007  12:52 PM
BOMBERS PLAN TO AMEND JOBA RULES
By GEORGE KING

August 30, 2007 -- The Joba Rules are about to change, The Post has learned.

And after watching Kyle Farnsworth almost flush a Yankees win last night, the alterations can't be made soon enough.

Joe Torre and minor-league pitching coordinator Nardi Contreras, the creator of the Joba Rules, talked yesterday via phone about altering the way 21-year-old right-hander Joba Chamberlain will be used out of the bullpen.

Since arriving in the big leagues Aug. 7, Chamberlain has been tethered to the following program: One inning pitched requires one day off. Two innings requires two days of rest. Three innings of work means three days on the pine. And he needs two days off before being asked to throw two innings.

Nevertheless, because Chamberlain's pitch counts have been very low (he is averaging 14.3 pitches an inning in his past six outings), and he is in the third week of being a major-league reliever after starting for the majority of the season in the minors, the Joba Rules will be altered.

"It may happen next week or so with more information and conversation," Torre told The Post during batting practice last night at the Stadium, where the Yankees beat the Red Sox, 4-3, despite Farnsworth giving up a two-run homer in the eighth.

When the Joba Rules change, Chamberlain's availability will depend on the pitch count in the previous outing.

"That's what we are talking about now," Torre said. "We haven't had any definitive change yet."

More of Chamberlain will be a big boost for the Yankees. He likely won't continue to dominate hitters the way he has in the first eight outings (10 innings, 4 hits, 17 strikeouts, 3 walks). However, Torre could use him in consecutive games depending on how many pitches were thrown.

When the creator of the Joba Rules was asked about them being changed, Contreras danced around the topic.

"I have talked to [minor-league head] Mark Newman and [GM] Brian Cashman and I will talk to Joe Torre," Contreras said. "We will talk about different things."

Yankees fans can expect to see more of Chamberlain's 100 mph fastball and filthy slider. And possibly never set eyes on Farnsworth in the eighth again.

If asked to drag the infield and do the idiotic YMCA dance during games, Chamberlain would be fine with the assignment. Asked about an increased workload, Chamberlain embraced it.

"I am willing to do anything to help this team win," said Chamberlain, who worked two innings in each of his first two outings and one inning in the following six.

Though Torre knows more of Chamberlain is good for his bullpen, he said he understands one of the reasons for Chamberlain's early dominance is the way he has been handled.

"It's pretty tough to alter something that is working," Torre said. "You would like to have him more often, but maybe the reason he has been successful is because of what we have done."

george.king@nypost.com
djsunyc
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8/30/2007  1:06 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Well, it certainly would've been nice to not have the Joba rules tonight instead of Farnsworth..

farnsworth rules: never pitch.
ot - the joba rules

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