yes!

For all the reasons cited- the knicks must make the play offs. At the start of the year, there was no way anyone would have guessed that Miami & the nets would be struggling.

Toronto is there- with our roster, we should be there as well.

NO QUESTION! This is all laying right there for the taking. I'm still angry about the Sixer loss. STill this team can make up for that by making it into the playoffs. In the end that really all I want to see from them. Do whatever it takes to make it into the playoffs. Once there in then we can talk about other things, but 1st they MUST make it to the playoffs.

My reasons are that this team has to make up it's mind where it's headed. If you can make the playoffs, that at least shows that these players have the desire to do what it takes to win. That in itself is progress, cuz they've not shown that kind of professionalism yet. I still believe they'll make it. Cuz I don't believe these other teams in front of them are gonna be able to hold on. I thought they had a chance even before Miami and NJ had there top players being injured, but now even more so.

Posted by babyKnicks:

I am not one that believes in toronto winning the atlantic.

these are the same that were singing the praises of orlando before the season.

It is what it is and looking at their roster, they ain't got nuttin!

you don't watch their games. you're looking at names on a paper. what that doesn't tell you is that they function as the 2nd best TEAM in the east next to detroit. no, they don't have the best talent, but they have pieces that fit together. and they are unselfish. they really are the closest thing to the suns in this league. not as prolific, but watch a few of their games and you'll see. that doesn't mean they'll win the division, but when you say they got "nuttin" - well that's coming from someone that doesn't know their team.

Posted by babyKnicks:

they aren't that many games ahead of the "inconsistent" knicks who we all know are underachieving like maniacs...so, I find it hard to believe that they are all that good where they are that awesome...it's not just names on paper, it's won loss record as well.

started off the season 5-10
16-6 since january 1st
6-2 this month

that's significant progress

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-22-2007 9:31 PM]

the Knicks play the Heat once & the Nets 3 more times this season... you would hope they can win at least 3 of the 4 if they're missing their main guys, but w/this team you can't expect it... i doubt this will affect the overall win total for the Knicks much this season

Big difference is that the Raptors actually believe in themselves and their chances at winning. This is the advantage they have over the Knicks. Though Bosh is a mega-stud, DJ is right, the Raps collective talent is not great BUT its the sum of the parts that make up the whole...Knicks are a team of talented players.

Not to turn this into a Raps vs Knix thread but small examples are...

Bosh: plays D, blocks shots, can step out and shoot and hit FT's, rebounds the ball

Curry: beautiful "ballerina" like offensive moves that can dominate most big men in the league but no D, lacks effort on both the O and D glass, does not really block shots, cannot pass out the double team

Garbajosa: Lee-like to the untrained eye...their garbage man, rebounds, passes, gritty...BUT he can shoot the ball and does not only really get "opportunity" baskets on errant shots or in transition

Lee: more prolific rebounder, better ball handler, avg'g a doub-doub but as previously mentioned, cannot step out and shoot (just yet), sometimes makes very poor decisions when passing the ball

Combo of TJ & Calderon...better PG's though I am not a fan of TJ's shot selection or shot in general, Calderon is waaaayy better in that area...both push and pass the ball. Ford is lightening quick.

Combo of Marbury, Francis & Nate...$40M PG's plus a short SG who is listed as a PG based on height with severe Napoleon complex and ADHD...Nate is cheap though. Isiah turned Francis in to the most expensive back-up PG/role player who has no idea what he is doing or why he is here. Marbury is getting older by the game as evidenced by his proclivity to jump shots this year versus being explosive and driving in the lane. Steph cannot take contact anymore in prolonged stretches...he played well for about 4 weeks (post-brawl) but the 6 weeks before that and since the start of Feb, he plays well for only about a quarter per game. Whether it be injury or the fact that Isiah is asking him not to dominate the ball as much, Marbury is clearly more "role-bury" versus "starbury."

Plus the Raps outside shooting is more consistent than ours in terms of Parker and Mo pete off the bench has been great for them versus Jamal being a better passer and playmaker than these guys while Q shows more grit and is a tenacious rebounder...this may be the biggest wash between the Raps and Knicks, though both JC and Q would prob be great on the Raps.

We need a pass-first PG who is comfortable passing first and a stud PF that plays D and blocks shots. Two very underrated assets to have in the NBA. The Raptors have two pass first guys and Bosh is a stud on both ends.

Posted by Queeniepop:

Big difference is that the Raptors actually believe in themselves and their chances at winning. This is the advantage they have over the Knicks. Though Bosh is a mega-stud, DJ is right, the Raps collective talent is not great BUT its the sum of the parts that make up the whole...Knicks are a team of talented players.

Not to turn this into a Raps vs Knix thread but small examples are...

Bosh: plays D, blocks shots, can step out and shoot and hit FT's, rebounds the ball

Curry: beautiful "ballerina" like offensive moves that can dominate most big men in the league but no D, lacks effort on both the O and D glass, does not really block shots, cannot pass out the double team

Garbajosa: Lee-like to the untrained eye...their garbage man, rebounds, passes, gritty...BUT he can shoot the ball and does not only really get "opportunity" baskets on errant shots or in transition

Lee: more prolific rebounder, better ball handler, avg'g a doub-doub but as previously mentioned, cannot step out and shoot (just yet), sometimes makes very poor decisions when passing the ball

Combo of TJ & Calderon...better PG's though I am not a fan of TJ's shot selection or shot in general, Calderon is waaaayy better in that area...both push and pass the ball. Ford is lightening quick.

Combo of Marbury, Francis & Nate...$40M PG's plus a short SG who is listed as a PG based on height with severe Napoleon complex and ADHD...Nate is cheap though. Isiah turned Francis in to the most expensive back-up PG/role player who has no idea what he is doing or why he is here. Marbury is getting older by the game as evidenced by his proclivity to jump shots this year versus being explosive and driving in the lane. Steph cannot take contact anymore in prolonged stretches...he played well for about 4 weeks (post-brawl) but the 6 weeks before that and since the start of Feb, he plays well for only about a quarter per game. Whether it be injury or the fact that Isiah is asking him not to dominate the ball as much, Marbury is clearly more "role-bury" versus "starbury."

Plus the Raps outside shooting is more consistent than ours in terms of Parker and Mo pete off the bench has been great for them versus Jamal being a better passer and playmaker than these guys while Q shows more grit and is a tenacious rebounder...this may be the biggest wash between the Raps and Knicks, though both JC and Q would prob be great on the Raps.

We need a pass-first PG who is comfortable passing first and a stud PF that plays D and blocks shots. Two very underrated assets to have in the NBA. The Raptors have two pass first guys and Bosh is a stud on both ends.

queenie - you are HILARIOUS....curry = beautiful ballerina....CLASSIC

Its a disgrace if you can't make the playoffs with the Heat, Nets, and Bucks all suffering major injuries and the magic just aren't that good

Toronto has been impressive, but they've also been fortunate, which is part of the equation. They've done a MUCH better job of taking advantage of the weak teams on the schedule. The Knicks have to make that final shift in mental approach. The Raps also have the advantage of being under their coach longer and he's more focused on what he needs to do with his roster than Isiah is. isiah is still trying to figure this team out. The Knicks are still trying to figure themselves out.

I don't feel that the Raps are really that much better in the long run. They are just ahead of us in terms of team development. It didn't hurt that they got some foreign players with more experience playing the game. The foregin system lends itself to players who better prepared for the pros in terms of team play. We all know our players are somewhat dumb basketball wise. isiah has been fighting that all year. Witness our AWFUL TO rate. Toronto is simply more proficient and consistent with what they do. Kudos to them for putting together a well balanced team.

Posted by nixluva:

Toronto has been impressive, but they've also been fortunate, which is part of the equation. They've done a MUCH better job of taking advantage of the weak teams on the schedule. The Knicks have to make that final shift in mental approach. The Raps also have the advantage of being under their coach longer and he's more focused on what he needs to do with his roster than Isiah is. isiah is still trying to figure this team out. The Knicks are still trying to figure themselves out.

I don't feel that the Raps are really that much better in the long run. They are just ahead of us in terms of team development. It didn't hurt that they got some foreign players with more experience playing the game. The foregin system lends itself to players who better prepared for the pros in terms of team play. We all know our players are somewhat dumb basketball wise. isiah has been fighting that all year. Witness our AWFUL TO rate. Toronto is simply more proficient and consistent with what they do. Kudos to them for putting together a well balanced team.

why would it take the knicks longer to figure themselves out when we have essentially the same roster as last season and toronto has 9 new players from last year?