martin wrote:ToddBot with the final one.

Thanks again for all your ScoreBot replacement posts. Will try to fix this in the offseason. Good stuff all year long and appreciate it.

ToddTT wrote:

                    1    2    3    4     T
                   --   --   --   --   ---
Knicks 47-35       31   19   21   21    92
Heat 44-38         24   27   23   22    96
STARTERS              MINS   PTS     FG    3PT     FT  OFF  DEF  REB  AST   TO  STL  BLK   PF  +/-
--------------------  ----  ----  -----  -----  -----  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---
Q. Grimes G             31     3    1-6    1-6    0-0    0    2    2    3    1    0    0    1    3
J. Brunson G            45    42  14-22   5-10   9-10    0    4    4    3    3    1    0    4    4
J. Randle F             35    15   3-14    1-7    8-9    2    9   11    3    3    0    2    2    3
R. Barrett F            32    11   1-10    0-3   9-10    0    2    2    1    3    0    0    5   -6
M. Robinson C           28     2    0-2    0-0    2-2    5    6   11    1    0    0    1    2    0
BENCH                 MINS   PTS     FG    3PT     FT  OFF  DEF  REB  AST   TO  STL  BLK   PF  +/-
--------------------  ----  ----  -----  -----  -----  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---
J. Hart                 33    11   5-10    1-4    0-0    1    6    7    1    2    1    1    5   -3
I. Hartenstein          18     2    1-2    0-0    0-0    0    1    1    0    0    0    4    3   -3
O. Toppin               12     7    2-5    2-5    1-2    0    3    3    1    0    0    0    0   -6
M. McBride               2     0    0-0    0-0    0-0    0    0    0    0    0    0    1    0   -7
STARTERS              MINS   PTS     FG    3PT     FT  OFF  DEF  REB  AST   TO  STL  BLK   PF  +/-
--------------------  ----  ----  -----  -----  -----  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---
G. Vincent G            31     7    3-8    1-5    0-0    1    2    3    5    2    1    0    4   11
M. Strus G              34    14   4-11    1-6    5-6    0    6    6    3    0    0    0    1    1
J. Butler F             41    24   7-22    0-3  10-11    1    7    8    4    0    1    0    2   -1
K. Love F               15     3    1-1    1-1    0-0    0    3    3    2    0    0    0    2   -4
B. Adebayo C            38    23   9-20    0-0    5-5    3    6    9    1    2    2    1    3   -7
BENCH                 MINS   PTS     FG    3PT     FT  OFF  DEF  REB  AST   TO  STL  BLK   PF  +/-
--------------------  ----  ----  -----  -----  -----  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---
K. Lowry                31    11    4-6    1-2    2-2    2    2    4    8    1    2    1    4   -1
C. Martin               24     8    3-7    1-3    1-1    0    5    5    1    1    1    0    3    4
D. Robinson             14     6    2-7    2-7    0-0    0    0    0    0    0    1    0    1    2
C. Zeller                9     0    0-0    0-0    0-0    0    2    2    1    1    0    0    2   10

Don’t mention it. Plus I had fun screwing around with Python.

Thanks for the website that has kept me off the ledge on several occasions.

martin wrote:IKD Clean, I wouldn't get too caught up with the Butler and doubling thing. Knicks maybe didn't execute those doubles and triple team very well or even close to correctly but let's not think that was the actual downfall of the Knicks.

When 3 of your starters go 3-14, 1-10 and 1-6, doubling and tripling Butler in a really close game probably is not the underlying problem.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ACE_ZULLO/status/1657465696421396481

I can't argue with that point. They really crapped the bed when we needed them most.

martin wrote:Butler averaged 38PPG shooting 44% from 3point land, 60% from the field against Milwaukee.

But limiting Butler with double teams thereby making other less non all star players beat you is a bad strategy?

Someone wake me up when this makes sense.

I said it in an earlier post. You don't just mindlessly double him every time no matter what. That is easy to gameplan for and that is exactly what the Heat did. Multple Heat players told you exactly what they needed to do to win in the pregame interviews and with Jimmy in the post game interview. Just because the Bucks did a bad job does not mean doing exactly the opposite of what they did is a good job. Also remember the Heat were the best 3pt shooting team in the 1st round also. Think of that stat while you are thinking about Bulters stats that series.

What you do is first tell your good defenders to man him up and see how the game is going. If he is hot then you double him. If your defenders are doing a good job then you won. Bulter is being contained and you don't leave shooters open. If you have to double him you don't do it every single time. You mix up the coverages to make thing hard to gameplan for. If you know you are going to constantly be doubled you would setup and look for the possible open man early. Well if you are not sure what is going to happen you have more things to think of. You also don't double Bulter near the half court line like this backbreaking play.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1657275538770210818

What was the threat from Butler to hard double so far from the hoop? In this situation we just needed a stop. By doing this we went into scramble mode and gave up an easy basket like usual. Doubles work really well on players like Randle who is slow to process what is happening on the court. Bulter does not have that problem. So you mix up the coverages so he has no idea what is coming and from what direction. Make him second guess or to make him have to think about multple situations that could occur.

Think of it like this. Teams that switch everything can easily be beat because all you need to do is PNR with the person who is being defended by the player you want to exploit. Since you know exactly what the defense is going to do you now know exactly how to exploit it. To bring this back to why auto double teams were bad here is that the Heat set their best shooters in the spots where they knew the double team would leave them open. There was no other defensive scheme they had to worry about. It is not a coincidence that Duncan killed us.

Why are we acting like this is something new. We have been one of the worst teams at giving up open 3pters for years. The auto doubling of star players and the auto doubling of anyone who even thinks of driving to the rim is the reason why.

What got me angry more than anything this series is we lost because of the stuff I been complaining about for years.

Doubling too much.
Protecting the paint at the cost of too many open 3's.
ISo's Randle
Too much ISO in general leading to the players being iced out and shooting extra poorly.
Slow to adjust gameplans that are clearly not working.
Slow to adjust sub patterns to improve chances to win. Grimes should have been in more in the 4th to creat space. I love Hart but the Heat were ignoring him and using his man to clog the paint. No matter how poorly Grimes shot the Heat defended him like a shooter. That was all you needed to make life easier for Brunson.

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/fbl_sam/status/1657513108322041857

Lessons Knicks to learn that Heat know. Namely, play aggressively if you do it all series they can't call it all of a sudden. Ben had been doing it all series

Alpha1971 wrote:I said since game 2 Thibs at a post game press conference should have taken a fine and blasted the refs for not calling out all the Ben moving screens. Who knows what could have been had he done that

Or lavish praise on Bam. Something along the lines of “I don’t know how, but he is setting the most effective screens in the history of the sport.” Regardless of questions being asked, spend the entire time just saying how impressive Bam is playing, and that we can’t figure out how to get around his incredible screens.

And then when a reporter remarks on how much the press conference seems narrowly focused, pull out a rolled up window screen and whack him in the side of the head with it, with every ounce of strength possible, showing zero emotion.

Then ask for more questions. Rinse and repeat.

martin wrote:Miami shot a collective 30% from 3point land against the Knicks in the series. 43% overall shooting against the Knicks. Defensive game plan kinda sorta worked but you can always nit pick at every play in any series. Defense was imperfect and it seems like a perfect defense is your expectation.

Knicks have individual poor defenders and decision makers in guys like RJ and Randle and Brunson. They don't know how and when to double or rotate. Even with Pop or Spo coaching them, their defensive decision making would be poor.

Knicks couldn't make wide open shots.

Clean wrote:

martin wrote:Butler averaged 38PPG shooting 44% from 3point land, 60% from the field against Milwaukee.

But limiting Butler with double teams thereby making other less non all star players beat you is a bad strategy?

Someone wake me up when this makes sense.

I said it in an earlier post. You don't just mindlessly double him every time no matter what. That is easy to gameplan for and that is exactly what the Heat did. Multple Heat players told you exactly what they needed to do to win in the pregame interviews and with Jimmy in the post game interview. Just because the Bucks did a bad job does not mean doing exactly the opposite of what they did is a good job. Also remember the Heat were the best 3pt shooting team in the 1st round also. Think of that stat while you are thinking about Bulters stats that series.

Well said

Also fold in we didnt have Julius in game 1. Not too far fetched to think we’d be playing game 7 if he was playing game 1 (i.e., if he was healthy enough)

VDesai wrote:Man, its pointless but I keep replaying that Brunson turnover player over and over in my head. Gabe Vincent reads Randle's cut well- he could have been called for a foul there, but I think Brunson's plan was to draw the double and leave it off for Randle in the paint where he has a decent and one opportunity, but Vincent really cuts him off.

Hart could have shaded over better towards Brunson. I definitely would have been happy with him shooting a 3 there. He wasn't shooting well this series, but he made plenty of clutch late 3's in his short time with the team.

Anyway not hating on Jalen at all, who was superhuman when our backs were against the wall. Just a total superstar performance. I bet you he will take this mistake and use it as his own motivation to come back even better next year. Was just his first year here and his first year as a full time go to player. I believe he will be even better than what we saw this year.

I have said this before, heat for years are coached to cut off passing lanes. When a player is under duress it can pay off big. THis time it was epic. Jalen can’t be blamed when another team executes like that.
Fans don’t always see this. If Randle did it we’d call for his head. Or, even more than what exists.
Randle gets doubled and looks to pass it but knows Heat are looking for the pass. At that moment the play is done and its why Randle has some awful shots. Its why the clock ran down and RJ had some rushed threes. Its why Brunson forced some shots and did not get contact call. Mitch is uselss at that moment and Grimes/Hart are usually sealed.
Credit team defense of heat that forces iso’s. Not to say every play or iso is, but Heat are damn good at things.

I remember when “Heatles” got arrogant and lost their first finals vs. Dallas it was the lack of defense. Lebron tried to get Spo removed but Riley exacted influence and told him they failed to execute and He’d coach them the same way. Lebron bought into the defense and their speed on cutting off passing was devastating and fueled the next two chips.
Heat Culture.

Chandler wrote:

VDesai wrote:Man, its pointless but I keep replaying that Brunson turnover player over and over in my head. Gabe Vincent reads Randle's cut well- he could have been called for a foul there, but I think Brunson's plan was to draw the double and leave it off for Randle in the paint where he has a decent and one opportunity, but Vincent really cuts him off.

Hart could have shaded over better towards Brunson. I definitely would have been happy with him shooting a 3 there. He wasn't shooting well this series, but he made plenty of clutch late 3's in his short time with the team.

Anyway not hating on Jalen at all, who was superhuman when our backs were against the wall. Just a total superstar performance. I bet you he will take this mistake and use it as his own motivation to come back even better next year. Was just his first year here and his first year as a full time go to player. I believe he will be even better than what we saw this year.

It was crazy. guy was only one dialed in for us. If we had one other guy play to par might have been a game 7, one other guy play above par and there would have been a game 7

i sure hope the FO is looking for more Jalen Brunson types (at other positions of course)

RJ was very good most of the playoffs and he was excellent during the first half of game 6 then disappeared. Still very happy he’s going to be a knick for a long time

Philc1 wrote:

VDesai wrote:Man, its pointless but I keep replaying that Brunson turnover player over and over in my head. Gabe Vincent reads Randle's cut well- he could have been called for a foul there, but I think Brunson's plan was to draw the double and leave it off for Randle in the paint where he has a decent and one opportunity, but Vincent really cuts him off.

Hart could have shaded over better towards Brunson. I definitely would have been happy with him shooting a 3 there. He wasn't shooting well this series, but he made plenty of clutch late 3's in his short time with the team.

Anyway not hating on Jalen at all, who was superhuman when our backs were against the wall. Just a total superstar performance. I bet you he will take this mistake and use it as his own motivation to come back even better next year. Was just his first year here and his first year as a full time go to player. I believe he will be even better than what we saw this year.

Spo’s strategy against Brunson by having two on ball defenders with him will be copied a lot next year. We need a Center who can actually hit a jump shot that’s the only way you counter that and keep defenses honest