Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Chandler wrote:
another guy who seems lost and the CS isn't really helping IMO. his game at the moment in 3Pt or leak out dunks. occassional back door cuts

why he's not in a PnR or PnP game with the second unit ala Amare is befuddling

Because Amar'e had Nash who was a PnR maestro and MDA whose whole offense was built around the PnR

Dont believe we need a Nash-like talent to get more production out of Obi. Just a strategy to get him going in a half court set, Which I havent seen yet.

I don't see how we're not running that with Rose or IQ. Obi should roll to hoop for layups or dunks depending and he has now shown he can step back for a pop too. i honestly don't know if we have a plan for him. His strength is scoring so if he stinks some on D we should at least punish the opponent on the other end and hopefully he gets more points than he gives

Been saying this since last year. Obi's athletic ability and vertical game is not being utilized. Obi should be rolling to the basket off PNR's and he has shown that he has a good touch in the mid range. Right now he is mainly hanging outside the 3 point line and is only being utilized as a stretch 4. I do think, more minutes and more confidence would also help his overall game and confidence.

To defend Obi. Most of these criticisms do not take into account what offense scheme we have. Defended Randle for the same. MR just mentioned it as well. Our offense scheme is designed to keep middle open. Mostly for JB, RJ and SF. It forces our power forwards and Centers to stay at the arc. Been saying that this is not best role for Randle or Obi. Sure guys can back cut but we have two guys in JB and RJ that just don't pass often off the drive. In term of PnR. Our scheme calls for high PnR. Not ones at foul line like STAT used to do. Nor is anyone flashing to the foul line. Different game now

Do agree that those should be put in place. Don't think anyone including themselves, like to see Obi and Randle just stay at the 3pt arc. One thing Obi Cam do is drive when guys are running at him at the three.

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He’s over emphasized 3 point shooting and it takes away his physical gifts

More Generational issue than Obi

You can say the same thing for 90% of TODAYS nba players.

I kinda agree with Briggs on this and I don't think it's a conscious decision by Obi. I think Thibs is leaning on Obi to bomb away and I don't really blame. He was the hottest shooter on the team when no one else was really hitting. I do think the team as a whole could do a better job find Mitch and Obi when they do dive to the hoop tho.

My take is teams are sagging off in effect daring him to shoot. That said, i like that he's hitting more and he's a better shooter than RJ. Just super frustrated that we're not exploiting his offensive game more

Philc1 wrote:Obi’s shooting has been much better this year. He’s a backup PF because Randle exists. If we somehow got rid of Randle Obi would be a nightly double double guy and be getting praised as a draft pick we hit on

This is not how reality works.

Obi can do good things in 15 or 18 or 20 minutes or whatever minutes he is given. No player should be given the excuse that he isn't GIVEN enough minutes.

No, you TAKE minutes by playing well for 5 minutes or 8 minutes or whatever and build on that.

This ain't kindergartners who you need to encourage and pat on the back when they seem to do well. No sir

Randle is doing his part by playing like **** every other game and inviting every opportunity for Obi and Obi ain't taking it.

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Chandler wrote:
another guy who seems lost and the CS isn't really helping IMO. his game at the moment in 3Pt or leak out dunks. occassional back door cuts

why he's not in a PnR or PnP game with the second unit ala Amare is befuddling

Because Amar'e had Nash who was a PnR maestro and MDA whose whole offense was built around the PnR

Dont believe we need a Nash-like talent to get more production out of Obi. Just a strategy to get him going in a half court set, Which I havent seen yet.

I don't see how we're not running that with Rose or IQ. Obi should roll to hoop for layups or dunks depending and he has now shown he can step back for a pop too. i honestly don't know if we have a plan for him. His strength is scoring so if he stinks some on D we should at least punish the opponent on the other end and hopefully he gets more points than he gives

Been saying this since last year. Obi's athletic ability and vertical game is not being utilized. Obi should be rolling to the basket off PNR's and he has shown that he has a good touch in the mid range. Right now he is mainly hanging outside the 3 point line and is only being utilized as a stretch 4. I do think, more minutes and more confidence would also help his overall game and confidence.

To defend Obi. Most of these criticisms do not take into account what offense scheme we have. Defended Randle for the same. MR just mentioned it as well. Our offense scheme is designed to keep middle open. Mostly for JB, RJ and SF. It forces our power forwards and Centers to stay at the arc. Been saying that this is not best role for Randle or Obi. Sure guys can back cut but we have two guys in JB and RJ that just don't pass often off the drive. In term of PnR. Our scheme calls for high PnR. Not ones at foul line like STAT used to do. Nor is anyone flashing to the foul line. Different game now

Do agree that those should be put in place. Don't think anyone including themselves, like to see Obi and Randle just stay at the 3pt arc. One thing Obi Cam do is drive when guys are running at him at the three.

Good observation and I agree with everything you wrote. However, Thibs has shown that he can adjust his schemes for specific players. For example, while the offense, like most teams is predicated on an open-paint, dribble drive attack, he does have many instances where he will plant Randle at the elbow and let him for to work. When you have an athlete like Obi, why not utilize his vertical game? When Obi is in the game, we can definitely run a few PNR's at the top the key which allow Obi an opportunity to roll to the rack or pick and pop if the lob aint there. Every perimeter shot from Obi doesn't have to be a 3.

Think you are right. Question is does Obi have the ability to pop and hit a 15 footer. Assuming if he had that he would first show it in practice. And if he did it well there, I am sure Thibs would utilize it.

Right now think we just don't have enough perimeter players and too many that need to drive or work down low to be efficient. If you trade Randle, we give up the only tough force down low. And a good rebounder. If we trade RJ, who needs the middle open to create offense, you give up a decent wing defender. Some would say our best. We know what we would look like without JB. But he is not best for defense and also needs the middle to create.

I would have preferred Murray and if we can upgrade from Randle and RJ. Wanted Grant and DM. But to get all those guys, we would be playing with just three players after giving up everything else we had.

Hoping Grimes gets it going.
RJ starts to see the floor and pass the ball.
MR stays healthy.
Rose gets healthy.
IQ keeps it going.
JB keeps it going but adds more dimes.
Obi adds some more on offense and improves rebounding and defense.
Randle takes less threes and more high effort
And that we get a true Superstar somehow.

martin wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Obi’s shooting has been much better this year. He’s a backup PF because Randle exists. If we somehow got rid of Randle Obi would be a nightly double double guy and be getting praised as a draft pick we hit on

This is not how reality works.

Obi can do good things in 15 or 18 or 20 minutes or whatever minutes he is given. No player should be given the excuse that he isn't GIVEN enough minutes.

No, you TAKE minutes by playing well for 5 minutes or 8 minutes or whatever and build on that.

This ain't kindergartners who you need to encourage and pat on the back when they seem to do well. No sir

Randle is doing his part by playing like **** every other game and inviting every opportunity for Obi and Obi ain't taking it.

Obi is shooting 37% from 3 this year. He was hovering at 30% previous 2 seasons. It may not seem like a big jump but it is and having a big man, potentially a Center who can hit from 3 helps the offense. The perception of Obi is he sucks — not sure what he’s supposed to do exactly orchaestrate a GM in the western conference to suddenly want to absorb the Randle contract I guess

Philc1 wrote:

martin wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Obi’s shooting has been much better this year. He’s a backup PF because Randle exists. If we somehow got rid of Randle Obi would be a nightly double double guy and be getting praised as a draft pick we hit on

This is not how reality works.

Obi can do good things in 15 or 18 or 20 minutes or whatever minutes he is given. No player should be given the excuse that he isn't GIVEN enough minutes.

No, you TAKE minutes by playing well for 5 minutes or 8 minutes or whatever and build on that.

This ain't kindergartners who you need to encourage and pat on the back when they seem to do well. No sir

Randle is doing his part by playing like **** every other game and inviting every opportunity for Obi and Obi ain't taking it.

Obi is shooting 37% from 3 this year. He was hovering at 30% previous 2 seasons. It may not seem like a big jump but it is and having a big man, potentially a Center who can hit from 3 helps the offense. The perception of Obi is he sucks — not sure what he’s supposed to do exactly orchaestrate a GM in the western conference to suddenly want to absorb the Randle contract I guess

You are asking about what Obi could do more of outside of distance shooting? how about everything? Impact a game

Hey, even D.Rose is saying he's not sure what his role is. D.Rose!! pause on that

Obi is a scorer. that's his strength

We're parking him in the corner like he's Steve Novak or Frank Ntlinkina. Is that Obi's fault, or is that because the Coach wants him there? If i were a defender I'd sag off him too

if the knicks wanted my advice they'd feature him more in the second unit ala Amar'e type role. either we learn he sucks at that, or he thrives. If he thrives worst case is we up his value in a trade or we start realizing that's another tool to employ when we need some offense

Randle is tough but has way below average vertical game. Have never seen a PF who otherwise looks so athletic get his shot blocked so often. He's trying to pump fake people because if he just goes up he gets stuffed

Nalod wrote:WE need to stop using Amare as the baseline. He is more Shawn Marion who shot 33% from 3.
Both were Allstars in mid twenties.
I love Obi's energy and enthusiasm.
How Thibs uses him vs. What the defense is giving him and taking away.

Im do get optimistic because Thibs players developed do hit the wall as if they are asked to add something and it messes them up. Where he and IQ used to get pulled, they are playing thru it. They, and Grimes are solid in this rotation as well as Cam. We are .500ish but our 2nd unit is younger than in the past. That is progress to some extent.

Agree about the Obi-Marion comp and hope we can find him more minutes as a forward since they're mostly interchangeable anyway. Specifically would like to see Cam and Obi play minutes together since Cam can play decent defense and iso a bit (in place of Randle).
I'm not wanting to move on from IQ but I do think we should consider consolidating positions heading into the 2023 draft... IQ or Rose has value and packaged with another redundant player/position (eg Center position - have 3) could yield us another draft pick we could package to move up.

martin wrote:Dang

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nba_newyork/status/1598800572454301696

IQ, Maxey, Paul Reed and Kenyon Martin Jr. would've been available with those picks. Knicks did a lot of wheeling and dealing that draft, so who knows what went down.

If the modern NBA is predicated on shooting a high number of 3s, what is our best shooter only playing for 17 minutes a game? Regardless of if he plays well or not?

The notion that Thibs is holding Obi to account is laughable when RJ is hoisting a miserable 281 from three and playing 34 minutes a night.

Obi might be an NBA role player at best, but Thibs ain’t using him right and isn’t using his talents and skills.

And in typical Knicks fashion, we’ll win just enough games to miss out on a franchise talent in the draft.

Why I am a fan still when this franchise grinds at my sensibilities with stupid and back wards.