Alpha1971 wrote:
Knicks have many pics on the horizon plus Rokas incoming soon. If the Knicks feel they can draft more complete players then IQ or even just his replacement why pay IQ bigger money ? Its not wise to keep him and other players like others on big deals if they don't feel they are the team that will make them competitive. IQ while he still has value may be moved. It makes sense to me. Your pov has merit as well. It all depends on how the team views IQ. Yes, Evan and Rose are expiring but that doesn't mean you want a overpriced role player to replace them on the roster.

We have no idea whether a pick we would get for IQ will turn into someone who is ready to contribute in his first year the way IQ is contributing today. Plus, unless our plan is to tank for Victor, IQ is very valuable to our team, in that he provides insurance at the PG slot in case of a Rose/Brunson injury, while in the meantime effectively filling both guard spots. Or do you think that McBride is already a better backup PG than IQ?

And the best way of not ending up with IQ as an overpriced role player is simply not to pay him more than he is worth.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:
Knicks have many pics on the horizon plus Rokas incoming soon. If the Knicks feel they can draft more complete players then IQ or even just his replacement why pay IQ bigger money ? Its not wise to keep him and other players like others on big deals if they don't feel they are the team that will make them competitive. IQ while he still has value may be moved. It makes sense to me. Your pov has merit as well. It all depends on how the team views IQ. Yes, Evan and Rose are expiring but that doesn't mean you want a overpriced role player to replace them on the roster.

We have no idea whether a pick we would get for IQ will turn into someone who is ready to contribute in his first year the way IQ is contributing today. Plus, unless our plan is to tank for Victor, IQ is very valuable to our team, in that he provides insurance at the PG slot in case of a Rose/Brunson injury, while in the meantime effectively filling both guard spots. Or do you think that McBride is already a better backup PG than IQ?

And the best way of not ending up with IQ as an overpriced role player is simply not to pay him more than he is worth.

Well maybe this is Leon Rose establishing IQs market value. IQ shooting numbers are not that great. He is inconsistent and maybe the deal price for a trade versus extension contract are being calculated. I don't know if Deuce or Rokas will give us what IQ will or a draft pick next year will. But are we winning the championship after next draft ? Yet objectively look at IQs shooting numbers and I think those figures can be surpassed. Think the team can go in multiple directions. Maybe the use IQ as a inducement to shed Randal. I don't know but I can understand it. I would just love to trade Julius and use RJ at the back up 4 and 3, and use Cam and Grimes at the 2. With IQ playing the 1 and 2 as well. But incoming Rokas, first and seconds are in bound soon with rookie deals. I wonder if Rokas has trade value

Alpha1971 wrote:Atlanta traded Huerter and Cam in successive years. IQ is not more valuable then them in terms of potential. Plus other teams with young talent and incoming draft picks will be looking to trade pre extension rookies as well just because of limited roster spots. Man OKC for example with so many picks will have a few talented rookie deal contract players they won't be able to keep either. Let's just hope if we trade IQ they do so wisely. I'm sort of bullish on Cam, What if IQ and a future pick or two gets us an other talent like Cam for another position to build with. Don't get attached to any player right now. No one on the team is untouchable not even Brunson although he might be the closest to it on the team

Good take. Fact is neither of IQ or Obi are starting nor close. Many might disagree with Obi but thats more about frustration with Randle than OBI. His rebounding and non defensive astounding is an issues. highlight dunks skew the narrative a bit.

I wish it was different and he was kicking ass and moving Randle off the court.

martin wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

martin wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Maxey is the better athlete but they can provide similar numbers. IQ can be kept and extended only if we trade one of RJ or Randal or Mitch if you don't want to cap out the team at a 500 team. IQs 3 pt shooting so far has been too low to go with a big three who shoots low from 3. IQ can be replaced in house by Grimes and now Deuce with Rokas and future first rounders next draft or even second rounders. So I'm ok trading IQ but would prefer to use IQ and picks together with RJ or Randle, or Mitch for an improvement to the starting 5.

I dont quite understand this underlying statement and I've heard it repeated by beat writers too.

Every team in the league but 2 are over the cap this year. A team either operates over the cap or under the cap to maximize their situation. Every year, there will only be a couple of teams that are right at the margin of being under the cap enough to sign a free agent and then extend their own players whose cap holds are small enough - the Knicks were a good example of that last offseason. When you consider cap holds and extension of core free agents, there are only a handful of teams that operate way under the cap.

The Knicks in particular, without any trades, will have Rose and Fournier coming off the cap to free up $35M over next 2 years.

Knicks have to make decisions on Cam this upcoming offseason and have until 2024 to figure out what to do with IQ and Obi.

What does RJ, Mitch, Randle have anything to do with anything in regards to cap space and the Knicks ability to resign IQ/Obi? I can't see any unless you think the Knicks MUST get under the cap, which they have not shown.

Projected cap space for 2023-24 will be $134M, Knicks are already over cap for next year (barring a huge dump of Fournier/Randle/Rose salary). New NBA TV contract up in 2024 may pump up the cap to $175M and that may be smoothed in over the 2024 or 2025 season, so think 2024-25 will be around $160M? 2025-26 $175M?

In addition to all of this, you really only want to operate under the cap (outside of the tank-o-licious teams) when you target a specific free agent and have to KNOW they are not extending before then.

The whole We can't resign IQ unless we move someone else ASAP makes zero sense to me. What am I missing?

Knicks have many pics on the horizon plus Rokas incoming soon. If the Knicks feel they can draft more complete players then IQ or even just his replacement why pay IQ bigger money ? Its not wise to keep him and other players like others on big deals if they don't feel they are the team that will make them competitive. IQ while he still has value may be moved. It makes sense to me. Your pov has merit as well. It all depends on how the team views IQ. Yes, Evan and Rose are expiring but that doesn't mean you want a overpriced role player to replace them on the roster.

Your main point was about IQ and the cap situation and needing to move other players in a likely simultaneous transaction. You didn't really address that.

Keeping or not keeping IQ based on his skill and what he contributes and what his potential could be based on what type of contract he is offered or willing to accept is a different discussion altogether.

All the points go into the issue of whether we trade IQ

martin wrote:The story of IQ: soooo good defensively. Getting MUCH better with his PG duties IMO. Still a work in progress on the deep shooting and that's OK, it's the easier thing to develop.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1598705648413204480

The hard work there will keep him in the league longer. Good career move! He is keeping Deuce on the bench.

For me it's disappointing. I'm glad Macri and his crew are starting to really monetize their content. Big grey area when you are promoting click by asking leading questions where you should know better. Eh, not for me and he is fading from my interest level. Welcome to the click scrum, wish you were doing better.

Fred barely pushing back and hesitant to cross that line with a foil he knows helps him too.

It's thin, really thin.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSkool/status/1601245286122127360

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:Macri leaning into the space left by Berman, merely asking why the Knicks FO would consider attaching IQ in a trade or "shove him off" knowing well enough that that's not really the scenario and both he and Fred playing off of each other for more social media content clicks.

For me it's disappointing. I'm glad Macri and his crew are starting to really monetize their content. Big grey area when you are promoting click by asking leading questions where you should know better. Eh, not for me and he is fading from my interest level. Welcome to the click scrum, wish you were doing better.

Fred barely pushing back and hesitant to cross that line with a foil he knows helps him too.

It's thin, really thin.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSkool/status/1601245286122127360

I mentioned this very thing a few weeks ago about his diluted content. I stopped listneing to this podcast. Really was nothing there. "Super chat" conjecture no better than what we do here.
The retweets on the UK by fringe bloggers does add the image of it being legit but its not. "Ritsholzman" and tommy beer stuff really is clickbait but I see how fans get mad by the headlines and run with it.

I think some of their stuff is very good and I wish them luck in regaining back all of their efforts via sponsors and such. It fades for me when they are knowingly being disingenuous, it's not a good look IMHO and just not for me; it'll capture eyeballs though, that's the name of the $ game.

Maybe he kinda is what he is now... streaky shooter but do-all combo guard who just helps you win games.

OR

What if he goes off for a 20 a game off the bench, does so in the playoffs and is a key piece in getting us to the conference finals where the Bucks were just too much. Remember when Sam Cassel killed us in the Rockets finals? Like that

Its possible none of these guys are stars but at least now we will find out. IQ has shown to be a legit defensive threat and that's a game changer to me. When your shot isnt falling but you can go out and get 15 assists or 15 rebounds or a bunch of steals is what makes you a winning player imo.

His PG play is improved.

His shot is falling more consistently.

And I LOVE the rebounding. I even boldfaced it!!!

I would hate to see him on another team.

In a couple of seasons, with sufficient PT, I believe IQ could be a borderline all-star. Has the skills. Dont want to see IQ traded for a role player, or in a deal that doesnt vault us to contender status. Would be a waste of homegrown talent, on a lateral move.