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Some Rose, IQ discussions going on around league
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gradyandrew
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11/23/2022  6:43 PM
Philc1 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

You're starting to become skeptical about the FO based on media rumors and nothing special ever happens because we are the Knicks.....LOL

Rose and this front office inherited a team that won 21 games and finished 12th in conference. Trier, Iggy, Ellington, Knox, Frank, Dotson and Harkless as well as an ineffective DSJ were in the rotation - and in many cases getting significant or starter minutes. Ask yourself - how much better is the roster now than the one that was inherited - also factoring in the retained/increased draft assets. Also - was anyone expecting the Knicks to have progressed from a bottom of the bottom feeder into a championship roster after 2 seasons with this FO? Perhaps fans need to put the 2020 COVID season on the shelf as an outlier due to weird circumstances and lower expectations in terms of what progression looks like.

Seems to me that some Knicks fans are caught up in micro analysis instead of macro view. The previous FO tried the Tanking thing....fans were unhappy and it failed. This FO is trying the slow tinkering type build - but its not fast enough for many fans who are impatient and still unhappy.

Let's review the net players that Leon has added to the current roster:

Brunson
Obi
Reddish
I Hart
Rose
Fournier
Sims
Grimes
Deuce

Tinkering involves adjustments to mistakes along the way....and every FO makes some mistakes. But on the whole, with the possible exception of Fournier - these players have all been a net positive upgrade vs. the players inherited by the FO and now discarded. If Rose is sending out feelers to try and leverage some of the current roster for an A Player - I'm all for it - as this is part of what the slow tinkering build process should be.


How did that team even win 21 games? That roster was so bad. The problem is this front office and the previous one missed when there were star players to be had late in the lottery. The team will continue to go nowhere until they get a star through the draft.

The roster was not that bad, Fizdale was just an absolute disaster head coach. We basically have the same starting front court now with Randle, RJ and Mitch

Coaching is so important in the nba and nfl. You go from a totally inept coach like Fizz and start out 4-19, then get better under Mike Miller then 10 games over .500 and playoffs following year with Thibs.


Bottom Line: Fizz is the worst coach I’ve ever seen and I lived through watching Kurt Rambis

Knicks were tanking for Zion all season. Not sure if you can fault the guy 100% for that. Zion + KD + Kyrie

AUTOADVERT
HofstraBBall
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11/23/2022  7:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/23/2022  7:12 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/11/22/the-knicks-win-when-immanuel-quickley-shoots-well/amp/

Knicks looking for 1st for IQ

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/11/23/23474827/the-knicks-are-reportedly-targeting-a-first-round-pick-to-trade-immanuel-quickley

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
BigDaddyG
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11/23/2022  7:25 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/11/22/the-knicks-win-when-immanuel-quickley-shoots-well/amp/

Knicks looking for 1st for IQ

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/11/23/23474827/the-knicks-are-reportedly-targeting-a-first-round-pick-to-trade-immanuel-quickley


Yeah, I think teams inquired thinking they can get IQ on the cheap as a distressed asset and the Knicks threw out the first round pick chatter. That said, they will have to make decision on IQ at some point.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
HofstraBBall
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11/23/2022  7:40 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/11/22/the-knicks-win-when-immanuel-quickley-shoots-well/amp/

Knicks looking for 1st for IQ

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/11/23/23474827/the-knicks-are-reportedly-targeting-a-first-round-pick-to-trade-immanuel-quickley


Yeah, I think teams inquired thinking they can get IQ on the cheap as a distressed asset and the Knicks threw out the first round pick chatter. That said, they will have to make decision on IQ at some point.

See IQ as another better version of Tyrese Maxey. Just needs a chance with big minutes.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
BigDaddyG
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11/23/2022  7:46 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/11/22/the-knicks-win-when-immanuel-quickley-shoots-well/amp/

Knicks looking for 1st for IQ

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/11/23/23474827/the-knicks-are-reportedly-targeting-a-first-round-pick-to-trade-immanuel-quickley


Yeah, I think teams inquired thinking they can get IQ on the cheap as a distressed asset and the Knicks threw out the first round pick chatter. That said, they will have to make decision on IQ at some point.

See IQ as another better version of Tyrese Maxey. Just needs a chance with big minutes.

I see IQ more as a Kirk Hinrich like combo guard. A guy who can ably play and defend both positions, but will always struggle with bouts of streakiness from outside. I liked Hinrich as a player, so I wouldn't be upset with that outcome.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
franco12
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11/23/2022  7:53 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/11/22/the-knicks-win-when-immanuel-quickley-shoots-well/amp/

Knicks looking for 1st for IQ

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/11/23/23474827/the-knicks-are-reportedly-targeting-a-first-round-pick-to-trade-immanuel-quickley


Yeah, I think teams inquired thinking they can get IQ on the cheap as a distressed asset and the Knicks threw out the first round pick chatter. That said, they will have to make decision on IQ at some point.

See IQ as another better version of Tyrese Maxey. Just needs a chance with big minutes.

IQ is a year older and hasn’t produced like Maxey, so how can he be a better version?

I think what you mean is he is a poor man’s version of Maxey.

gradyandrew
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11/23/2022  7:59 PM
It's good asset management similar to the Kevin Knox trade, but I still don't see it happening unless the Knicks have a deal for a star on the table.
Nalod
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11/23/2022  11:28 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/11/22/the-knicks-win-when-immanuel-quickley-shoots-well/amp/

Knicks looking for 1st for IQ

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/11/23/23474827/the-knicks-are-reportedly-targeting-a-first-round-pick-to-trade-immanuel-quickley


Yeah, I think teams inquired thinking they can get IQ on the cheap as a distressed asset and the Knicks threw out the first round pick chatter. That said, they will have to make decision on IQ at some point.

See IQ as another better version of Tyrese Maxey. Just needs a chance with big minutes.

Funny, I see Maxey as a better IQ. Maybe its the hair?

franco12
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11/24/2022  1:12 AM
gradyandrew wrote:It's good asset management similar to the Kevin Knox trade, but I still don't see it happening unless the Knicks have a deal for a star on the table.

Kevin can’t even play in the league, though he was just flashed on ESPN Game Center for helping the Pistons upset Utah.

If we’re looking at contracts attached to the player, I think RJ is more of the Kevin Knox let’s manage the asset.

I’d hope we’d be able to keep IQ long time, but again, I don’t know these things.

Actually both IQ and RJ are questions I have of Thibs and whether he is the right coach.

Perhaps RJ & IQ aren’t that good to have a future in the league. Their production fall off is not due to anything Thibs is or isn’t doing welll from a coach and offensive design standpoint.

gradyandrew
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11/24/2022  1:48 AM
A check of Knicks lineups reveals all the same data, whether it's 5,4,3 or 2, the Knicks are a net positive team when IQ is on the court and net negative when he isn't.
Kemet
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11/24/2022  4:12 AM
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/11/22/the-knicks-win-when-immanuel-quickley-shoots-well/amp/

Knicks looking for 1st for IQ

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/11/23/23474827/the-knicks-are-reportedly-targeting-a-first-round-pick-to-trade-immanuel-quickley


Yeah, I think teams inquired thinking they can get IQ on the cheap as a distressed asset and the Knicks threw out the first round pick chatter. That said, they will have to make decision on IQ at some point.

See IQ as another better version of Tyrese Maxey. Just needs a chance with big minutes.

IQ is a year older and hasn’t produced like Maxey, so how can he be a better version?

I think what you mean is he is a poor man’s version of Maxey.

Quickley and Maxey are equal ..
When Ben Simmons & Seth Curry was running Philly offense Maxey was inconsistent and clueless.
When Maxie was given the role of running the offense for Philly & Embiid, Maxey became a consistent dynamic combo-guard on both ends of the court.

At the end of last season, when Quickley was given the role of PG to run the offense his performance became consistent and dynamic ball-movement in the offense the majority of Knicks fans gave Quickley the job of being the Knicks starter PG next season, if we are not able to sign FA Rrunson in the offseason.
Quickley & D.Rose are much more than one on one bully-ball players.

It looks like Thibs only offensive strategy the past two seasons has been one on one Bully ball, and shooting 30 3-ball shots a game. This season, Rrunson turned out to be a better scorer at one on one bully-ball than Fournier last season.
The Knicks ball-movement has stopped this season by having Randle, or Barrett6, or Brunson in every lineup for 48 minutes .. the trio has become the Knicks ball-stoppers.
Last season the Knicks was a two touch shoot offense, and nothing change this season.
When the Knicks were on the road at Phoenix & GS the Warriors & Suns offense had 4 or more touches on practically every offensive possession throughout the 48 minutes game. Games the Knicks never had the lead.

The D.Rose and Taj Gibson pick n roll scored 90% of the time.
D.Rose started the preseason games in Thibs dog-house.
D.Rose is the best winning player on the Knicks roster!
If D.Rose want out, I'm sure Quickley want to leave with him

Alpha1971
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11/24/2022  7:14 AM
Maxey is the better athlete but they can provide similar numbers. IQ can be kept and extended only if we trade one of RJ or Randal or Mitch if you don't want to cap out the team at a 500 team. IQs 3 pt shooting so far has been too low to go with a big three who shoots low from 3. IQ can be replaced in house by Grimes and now Deuce with Rokas and future first rounders next draft or even second rounders. So I'm ok trading IQ but would prefer to use IQ and picks together with RJ or Randle, or Mitch for an improvement to the starting 5.
HofstraBBall
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11/24/2022  8:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/24/2022  9:03 AM
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/11/22/the-knicks-win-when-immanuel-quickley-shoots-well/amp/

Knicks looking for 1st for IQ

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/11/23/23474827/the-knicks-are-reportedly-targeting-a-first-round-pick-to-trade-immanuel-quickley


Yeah, I think teams inquired thinking they can get IQ on the cheap as a distressed asset and the Knicks threw out the first round pick chatter. That said, they will have to make decision on IQ at some point.

See IQ as another better version of Tyrese Maxey. Just needs a chance with big minutes.

IQ is a year older and hasn’t produced like Maxey, so how can he be a better version?

I think what you mean is he is a poor man’s version of Maxey.

Like I said, Maxey was given over 35MPG due to circumstances in his second year.That after just 15MPG and shooting 30% from three in his first year. Not taking anything away from him but IQ has never had that kind of opportunity.

Feel their games are very similar. IQs numbers are down thus far but year is young. For me, the main difference is IQs shot selection. As we know, he has a tendency to force the three.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
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11/24/2022  9:02 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/24/2022  9:17 AM
Alpha1971 wrote:Maxey is the better athlete but they can provide similar numbers. IQ can be kept and extended only if we trade one of RJ or Randal or Mitch if you don't want to cap out the team at a 500 team. IQs 3 pt shooting so far has been too low to go with a big three who shoots low from 3. IQ can be replaced in house by Grimes and now Deuce with Rokas and future first rounders next draft or even second rounders. So I'm ok trading IQ but would prefer to use IQ and picks together with RJ or Randle, or Mitch for an improvement to the starting 5.

Don't have to trade starters to get IQ more burn. He will be on second unit mostly.
Grimes will and hopefully is a more consistent three point shooter.
EF and Rose will probably be traded to free up space.
Knicks do have to decide on Cam, Obi and IQ.
Mcbribe is cheap 3rd string insurance till 24.
Thus far, Roka is better in people's minds than on an NBA floor.

Agree about shooting need.
Feel IQ will turn it around and Grimes will help that.
Would like to add another 3&D SF. Not sure if Cam is that on the offensive side.
Do see Thibs going to less minutes for RJ if he does not have it going. Especially if IQ or Cam have it going in offense.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Nalod
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11/24/2022  9:06 AM
Philc1 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

You're starting to become skeptical about the FO based on media rumors and nothing special ever happens because we are the Knicks.....LOL

Rose and this front office inherited a team that won 21 games and finished 12th in conference. Trier, Iggy, Ellington, Knox, Frank, Dotson and Harkless as well as an ineffective DSJ were in the rotation - and in many cases getting significant or starter minutes. Ask yourself - how much better is the roster now than the one that was inherited - also factoring in the retained/increased draft assets. Also - was anyone expecting the Knicks to have progressed from a bottom of the bottom feeder into a championship roster after 2 seasons with this FO? Perhaps fans need to put the 2020 COVID season on the shelf as an outlier due to weird circumstances and lower expectations in terms of what progression looks like.

Seems to me that some Knicks fans are caught up in micro analysis instead of macro view. The previous FO tried the Tanking thing....fans were unhappy and it failed. This FO is trying the slow tinkering type build - but its not fast enough for many fans who are impatient and still unhappy.

Let's review the net players that Leon has added to the current roster:

Brunson
Obi
Reddish
I Hart
Rose
Fournier
Sims
Grimes
Deuce

Tinkering involves adjustments to mistakes along the way....and every FO makes some mistakes. But on the whole, with the possible exception of Fournier - these players have all been a net positive upgrade vs. the players inherited by the FO and now discarded. If Rose is sending out feelers to try and leverage some of the current roster for an A Player - I'm all for it - as this is part of what the slow tinkering build process should be.


How did that team even win 21 games? That roster was so bad. The problem is this front office and the previous one missed when there were star players to be had late in the lottery. The team will continue to go nowhere until they get a star through the draft.

The roster was not that bad, Fizdale was just an absolute disaster head coach. We basically have the same starting front court now with Randle, RJ and Mitch

Coaching is so important in the nba and nfl. You go from a totally inept coach like Fizz and start out 4-19, then get better under Mike Miller then 10 games over .500 and playoffs following year with Thibs.


Bottom Line: Fizz is the worst coach I’ve ever seen and I lived through watching Kurt Rambis

Three years later MR and RJ are vastly different than under Fiz.
And PhilC discounts the “Elf Effect”. LOL.

BigRedDog
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11/24/2022  9:58 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/11/22/the-knicks-win-when-immanuel-quickley-shoots-well/amp/

Knicks looking for 1st for IQ

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/11/23/23474827/the-knicks-are-reportedly-targeting-a-first-round-pick-to-trade-immanuel-quickley


Yeah, I think teams inquired thinking they can get IQ on the cheap as a distressed asset and the Knicks threw out the first round pick chatter. That said, they will have to make decision on IQ at some point.

See IQ as another better version of Tyrese Maxey. Just needs a chance with big minutes.

I think you have it backwards. Maxey is a better version of IQ.We would have drafted Maxey instead of IQ if he was still available.

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
martin
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11/24/2022  12:12 PM
Alpha1971 wrote:Maxey is the better athlete but they can provide similar numbers. IQ can be kept and extended only if we trade one of RJ or Randal or Mitch if you don't want to cap out the team at a 500 team. IQs 3 pt shooting so far has been too low to go with a big three who shoots low from 3. IQ can be replaced in house by Grimes and now Deuce with Rokas and future first rounders next draft or even second rounders. So I'm ok trading IQ but would prefer to use IQ and picks together with RJ or Randle, or Mitch for an improvement to the starting 5.

I dont quite understand this underlying statement and I've heard it repeated by beat writers too.

Every team in the league but 2 are over the cap this year. A team either operates over the cap or under the cap to maximize their situation. Every year, there will only be a couple of teams that are right at the margin of being under the cap enough to sign a free agent and then extend their own players whose cap holds are small enough - the Knicks were a good example of that last offseason. When you consider cap holds and extension of core free agents, there are only a handful of teams that operate way under the cap.

The Knicks in particular, without any trades, will have Rose and Fournier coming off the cap to free up $35M over next 2 years.

Knicks have to make decisions on Cam this upcoming offseason and have until 2024 to figure out what to do with IQ and Obi.

What does RJ, Mitch, Randle have anything to do with anything in regards to cap space and the Knicks ability to resign IQ/Obi? I can't see any unless you think the Knicks MUST get under the cap, which they have not shown.

Projected cap space for 2023-24 will be $134M, Knicks are already over cap for next year (barring a huge dump of Fournier/Randle/Rose salary). New NBA TV contract up in 2024 may pump up the cap to $175M and that may be smoothed in over the 2024 or 2025 season, so think 2024-25 will be around $160M? 2025-26 $175M?

In addition to all of this, you really only want to operate under the cap (outside of the tank-o-licious teams) when you target a specific free agent and have to KNOW they are not extending before then.

The whole We can't resign IQ unless we move someone else ASAP makes zero sense to me. What am I missing?

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smackeddog
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11/24/2022  4:52 PM
martin wrote:
Alpha1971 wrote:Maxey is the better athlete but they can provide similar numbers. IQ can be kept and extended only if we trade one of RJ or Randal or Mitch if you don't want to cap out the team at a 500 team. IQs 3 pt shooting so far has been too low to go with a big three who shoots low from 3. IQ can be replaced in house by Grimes and now Deuce with Rokas and future first rounders next draft or even second rounders. So I'm ok trading IQ but would prefer to use IQ and picks together with RJ or Randle, or Mitch for an improvement to the starting 5.

I dont quite understand this underlying statement and I've heard it repeated by beat writers too.

Every team in the league but 2 are over the cap this year. A team either operates over the cap or under the cap to maximize their situation. Every year, there will only be a couple of teams that are right at the margin of being under the cap enough to sign a free agent and then extend their own players whose cap holds are small enough - the Knicks were a good example of that last offseason. When you consider cap holds and extension of core free agents, there are only a handful of teams that operate way under the cap.

The Knicks in particular, without any trades, will have Rose and Fournier coming off the cap to free up $35M over next 2 years.

Knicks have to make decisions on Cam this upcoming offseason and have until 2024 to figure out what to do with IQ and Obi.

What does RJ, Mitch, Randle have anything to do with anything in regards to cap space and the Knicks ability to resign IQ/Obi? I can't see any unless you think the Knicks MUST get under the cap, which they have not shown.

Projected cap space for 2023-24 will be $134M, Knicks are already over cap for next year (barring a huge dump of Fournier/Randle/Rose salary). New NBA TV contract up in 2024 may pump up the cap to $175M and that may be smoothed in over the 2024 or 2025 season, so think 2024-25 will be around $160M? 2025-26 $175M?

In addition to all of this, you really only want to operate under the cap (outside of the tank-o-licious teams) when you target a specific free agent and have to KNOW they are not extending before then.

The whole We can't resign IQ unless we move someone else ASAP makes zero sense to me. What am I missing?

I genuinely don’t understand it either. Plus if the aim is to win as many games a s we can this season and not tank, how does it make sense to move IQ for a future first?

Kemet
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11/25/2022  3:17 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/25/2022  3:19 AM
smackeddog wrote:
martin wrote:
Alpha1971 wrote:Maxey is the better athlete but they can provide similar numbers. IQ can be kept and extended only if we trade one of RJ or Randal or Mitch if you don't want to cap out the team at a 500 team. IQs 3 pt shooting so far has been too low to go with a big three who shoots low from 3. IQ can be replaced in house by Grimes and now Deuce with Rokas and future first rounders next draft or even second rounders. So I'm ok trading IQ but would prefer to use IQ and picks together with RJ or Randle, or Mitch for an improvement to the starting 5.

I dont quite understand this underlying statement and I've heard it repeated by beat writers too.

Every team in the league but 2 are over the cap this year. A team either operates over the cap or under the cap to maximize their situation. Every year, there will only be a couple of teams that are right at the margin of being under the cap enough to sign a free agent and then extend their own players whose cap holds are small enough - the Knicks were a good example of that last offseason. When you consider cap holds and extension of core free agents, there are only a handful of teams that operate way under the cap.

The Knicks in particular, without any trades, will have Rose and Fournier coming off the cap to free up $35M over next 2 years.

Knicks have to make decisions on Cam this upcoming offseason and have until 2024 to figure out what to do with IQ and Obi.

What does RJ, Mitch, Randle have anything to do with anything in regards to cap space and the Knicks ability to resign IQ/Obi? I can't see any unless you think the Knicks MUST get under the cap, which they have not shown.

Projected cap space for 2023-24 will be $134M, Knicks are already over cap for next year (barring a huge dump of Fournier/Randle/Rose salary). New NBA TV contract up in 2024 may pump up the cap to $175M and that may be smoothed in over the 2024 or 2025 season, so think 2024-25 will be around $160M? 2025-26 $175M?

In addition to all of this, you really only want to operate under the cap (outside of the tank-o-licious teams) when you target a specific free agent and have to KNOW they are not extending before then.

The whole We can't resign IQ unless we move someone else ASAP makes zero sense to me. What am I missing?

I genuinely don’t understand it either. Plus if the aim is to win as many games a s we can this season and not tank, how does it make sense to move IQ for a future first?

Getting rid of Quickley early in the season will have me believing Leon Rose (and Tom Thibs) plan was to TANK the 2022-23 season.

The regular season has 82 games, that comes with a helluva schedule of playing 5 road games in 7 days ...
A NBA regular season roster relies on 13 to 15 players throughout the 82 game season.

PG Brunson, D.Rose and McBride for injuy
SG Grimes, Quickley, and Fournier for injury
SF Reddish, Barrett, and the missing piece?
PF Randle , Toppin, and the missing piece?
C MitchRob, Sims, and Hart for injuries

Alpha1971
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11/25/2022  3:38 AM
martin wrote:
Alpha1971 wrote:Maxey is the better athlete but they can provide similar numbers. IQ can be kept and extended only if we trade one of RJ or Randal or Mitch if you don't want to cap out the team at a 500 team. IQs 3 pt shooting so far has been too low to go with a big three who shoots low from 3. IQ can be replaced in house by Grimes and now Deuce with Rokas and future first rounders next draft or even second rounders. So I'm ok trading IQ but would prefer to use IQ and picks together with RJ or Randle, or Mitch for an improvement to the starting 5.

I dont quite understand this underlying statement and I've heard it repeated by beat writers too.

Every team in the league but 2 are over the cap this year. A team either operates over the cap or under the cap to maximize their situation. Every year, there will only be a couple of teams that are right at the margin of being under the cap enough to sign a free agent and then extend their own players whose cap holds are small enough - the Knicks were a good example of that last offseason. When you consider cap holds and extension of core free agents, there are only a handful of teams that operate way under the cap.

The Knicks in particular, without any trades, will have Rose and Fournier coming off the cap to free up $35M over next 2 years.

Knicks have to make decisions on Cam this upcoming offseason and have until 2024 to figure out what to do with IQ and Obi.

What does RJ, Mitch, Randle have anything to do with anything in regards to cap space and the Knicks ability to resign IQ/Obi? I can't see any unless you think the Knicks MUST get under the cap, which they have not shown.

Projected cap space for 2023-24 will be $134M, Knicks are already over cap for next year (barring a huge dump of Fournier/Randle/Rose salary). New NBA TV contract up in 2024 may pump up the cap to $175M and that may be smoothed in over the 2024 or 2025 season, so think 2024-25 will be around $160M? 2025-26 $175M?

In addition to all of this, you really only want to operate under the cap (outside of the tank-o-licious teams) when you target a specific free agent and have to KNOW they are not extending before then.

The whole We can't resign IQ unless we move someone else ASAP makes zero sense to me. What am I missing?

Knicks have many pics on the horizon plus Rokas incoming soon. If the Knicks feel they can draft more complete players then IQ or even just his replacement why pay IQ bigger money ? Its not wise to keep him and other players like others on big deals if they don't feel they are the team that will make them competitive. IQ while he still has value may be moved. It makes sense to me. Your pov has merit as well. It all depends on how the team views IQ. Yes, Evan and Rose are expiring but that doesn't mean you want a overpriced role player to replace them on the roster.

Some Rose, IQ discussions going on around league

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