gradyandrew wrote:Can't trade IQ. He is too important to the team.

IQ is one of the best 2-way players on the team...I definitely want him to stick around. However, if you look at things from IQ and his agents viewpoint, I would not be surprised if they might be looking for greener pastures.

This is year 3, and he has never been given an opportunity to start. Three players have come to this team after he has already been here, and jump him in the starting lineup. Evan, Grimes, and Cam. Whether we the fans think those players are better than IQ is irrelevant as I am sure IQ and team think they are just as good if not better than those other options. Fans might think its delusional but how may players actually think logically actually give themselves an honest self evaluation? BTW, Evan and Grimes are not even in the rotation right now.

From a fans viewpoint, I would love for him to stay and probably from the viewpoint of IQ, he probably wants a legit chance to be a starter in the league. Not only that, but I am sure they looking at the money that will be available to him as a 6 or 7th man off the bench vs being a starter somewhere.

I wish thibs patterned his pg development to the suns. They have cp3 as the starter and stuck with Payne as the baCk up now we can see thAt payne can handle the team when Cp3 is out.

Is there still time? Ideally when The knicks traded for Rose, he should be the starter and Deuce back him up so he can learn and build confidence. Now and Jalen is the starter, they can trade Rose and develop Deuce as the new back up PG. i dont buy the idea Deuce cant shoot, he was able to lead the Winchester team offensively.

Jimbo5 wrote:With Cam out, Fournier still didn't see the floor. Prior to the game he sAid he is not yet thinking of asking for a trade. Will he now reconsider?

I wish thibs patterned his pg development to the suns. They have cp3 as the starter and stuck with Payne as the baCk up now we can see thAt payne can handle the team when Cp3 is out.

Is there still time? Ideally when The knicks traded for Rose, he should be the starter and Deuce back him up so he can learn and build confidence. Now and Jalen is the starter, they can trade Rose and develop Deuce as the new back up PG. i dont buy the idea Deuce cant shoot, he was able to lead the Winchester team offensively.

When the Knicks traded for Rose, they couldn’t play Deuce cause he wasn’t drafted yet. And when he was drafted by the Knicks, when Deuce played PG, he kinda sucked at it, couldn’t make a shot and didn’t know the basics of running an NBA offense. But they did have IQ in that spot last year and after the break, he did well.

Knicks are doing OK developing IQ for that role and putting him next to Rose has been good tactic.

Swishfm3 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:I'll trade RJ Barrett before IQ

Back in 2019, My draft pick was D. Hunter but imagine if they drafted D. Garland instead. How different would this team be today?
I would imagine they still draft O. Topping the following year but instead of IQ, they maybe go with drafting D. Bane in the later rounds, eliminating the need to sign E. Fournier (who I actually like) that following Summer.

anyway....

You lost me at liking EF. EF makes me not like Scott Perry.

LOL...That's fair

I don't like the contract but he is a serviceable player, that feels a need, but is not being utilized properly.

No its not. Perry was an AGM when EF was drafted. But he said so himself, that he wanted to sign Derozan, not Fournier.

GustavBahler wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:I'll trade RJ Barrett before IQ

Back in 2019, My draft pick was D. Hunter but imagine if they drafted D. Garland instead. How different would this team be today?
I would imagine they still draft O. Topping the following year but instead of IQ, they maybe go with drafting D. Bane in the later rounds, eliminating the need to sign E. Fournier (who I actually like) that following Summer.

anyway....

You lost me at liking EF. EF makes me not like Scott Perry.

LOL...That's fair

I don't like the contract but he is a serviceable player, that feels a need, but is not being utilized properly.

No its not. Perry was an AGM when EF was drafted. But he said so himself, that he wanted to sign Derozan, not Fournier.

Perry didn't draft Fournier in Orlando. Denver did. Perry was involved in the trade to Orlando for Aaron Afflalo. He probably wins that trade though.

In terms of Derozan vs Fournier, the many takes on the "leaning toward" Derozan don't do much other than muddy the water. Perry is GM and signed Fournier here. Buck stops with Perry unless Leon Rose cut him out. Can't tell me that Perry didn't have anything to do with it cause he thought about Derozan before choosing Fournier.

BigDaddyG wrote:https://theathletic.com/3922781/2022/11/22/immanuel-quickley-knicks-expendable/?source=user_shared_article&redirected=1
Why is Immanuel Quickley suddenly expendable for Knicks?

Excerpt

The Knicks’ cap sheet isn’t so flexible.

In 2024-25, which would be the first season of a Quickley or Toppin extension, the salaries of just Jalen Brunson, Julius Randle, Robinson, Barrett and Grimes add up to $97 million. Let’s say the Knicks hypothetically re-signed Quickley and Toppin for approximately the midlevel exception each. That would bring them to the ballpark of $120 million to pay for less than half the roster.

The cap projects to be around $140 million that season, but it’s not like the team would have $20 million in room. It would need to fill seven-to-eight more roster spots. It would need to decide on Reddish (a free agent after this season), Hartenstein (a free agent in 2024) and Sims (who the Knicks would almost certainly bring back in this scenario since he has a cheap non-guarantee for the 2024-25 season).

All of this would be for a group that, so far, seems to cap out as a Play-In Tournament hopeful. Meanwhile, the five players still under contract make up the current starting lineup, which has been an unnatural fit together. It’s not like the Knicks could just as easily trade someone from that quintet instead of Quickley in the hopes of wiping long-term money off their books. All of those guys are either too good to cope with losing or too expensive to command as lucrative a return as Quickley hypothetically could.

The Knicks saw the modern craze of stars demanding out before they hit free agency and figured the best way to take advantage of the new norm was to set themselves up for trades. Be competitive enough to boast a desirable basketball situation in a large market and let the big name choose you, just like the Brooklyn Nets did with Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant and James Harden or the LA Clippers did with Paul George and Kawhi Leonard or the Los Angeles Lakers did with Anthony Davis, and so on.

But all of those examples came in situations where teams were malleable enough to do more than just trade for someone. The Nets had the cap room to sign Irving and Durant, then used a glut of players and picks to deal for Harden. The Clippers traded for George but signed Leonard. The Lakers traded for Davis but only after they signed LeBron James.

The reality is that the Knicks’ supposed flexibility extends only to the first star trade. If acquiring Mitchell would have left the cupboard too bare to trade for a second star, then the next available star who is as good as or better than Mitchell and thus costs as much as or more than Mitchell will leave the front office engaged in the same conversation.

How could we trade all this great stuff for this great player if we’re left with too little to land him a co-star?

It feels like the cycle could continue in perpetuity.

The Knicks gave themselves little room to deviate from Plan A. And now they’re conversing about Quickley.

They won’t tank, which would increase their chances of drafting a star. An organization can get lucky with the 15th pick, but there’s a reason selections like Leonard and Giannis Antetokounmpo are ones we marvel over; they’re not the norm. Meanwhile, they’ve locked up their roster with enough long-term money that it would require serious cap gymnastics (and attaching first-round picks to some of the bigger contracts on their books) to sign one.

Gymnastics aren’t easy when you’re not as flexible as you claim.

Keep the kids. Move Randle. Dump Fournier. Let Rose expire. That’s about 56M. Punting on the rebuild is just going to get us where we were 10 years ago

IQ on a reasonable contract should still be an asset. Same with Obi and Cam.

GustavBahler wrote:Perry told a reporter that he wanted to sign Derozan over Fournier but was overuled. The papers were suggesting that he was the one who pushed for Fournier because of his history with EF.

Perry made it known that wasnt the case. Derozan was lighting up the league last season, and everyone thought Perry passed on Derozan for Fournier. Not like he could sign Derozan when Rose wasnt looking.

EwingsGlass wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:I'll trade RJ Barrett before IQ

Back in 2019, My draft pick was D. Hunter but imagine if they drafted D. Garland instead. How different would this team be today?
I would imagine they still draft O. Topping the following year but instead of IQ, they maybe go with drafting D. Bane in the later rounds, eliminating the need to sign E. Fournier (who I actually like) that following Summer.

anyway....

You lost me at liking EF. EF makes me not like Scott Perry.

LOL...That's fair

I don't like the contract but he is a serviceable player, that feels a need, but is not being utilized properly.

No its not. Perry was an AGM when EF was drafted. But he said so himself, that he wanted to sign Derozan, not Fournier.

Perry didn't draft Fournier in Orlando. Denver did. Perry was involved in the trade to Orlando for Aaron Afflalo. He probably wins that trade though.

In terms of Derozan vs Fournier, the many takes on the "leaning toward" Derozan don't do much other than muddy the water. Perry is GM and signed Fournier here. Buck stops with Perry unless Leon Rose cut him out. Can't tell me that Perry didn't have anything to do with it cause he thought about Derozan before choosing Fournier.

Do you have a link? Guys who speak out against their bosses like that don't keep their jobs

One guy who might be available is Jimmy Butler. The Heat have been a disappointment and have a limited number of games to turn it around. The age gap between Abedayo Herro and Butler is huge. I'm not sure how Jimmy feels about Thibs but it's not unreasonable to assume that they both would benefit from a reunion. The schedule for Miami is tough. An extended slide for them might be enough to have them embrace a tank job and get off of the 52 million owed to Butler in 25/26.

gradyandrew wrote:I don't think it gets the Knicks anywhere by trading IQ for a future pick unless it's part of a bigger deal. As is the Knicks have their own pick. Dallas is likely to convert (top 11 protection) and there's a chance Washington's will as well. Knicks won't have a second rounder so likely they could use two picks but 3 is where you get decreasing marginal returns. Detroit's pick might convert in 1 or 2 seasons if they land an impact player with a top pick in this year's draft.

One guy who might be available is Jimmy Butler. The Heat have been a disappointment and have a limited number of games to turn it around. The age gap between Abedayo Herro and Butler is huge. I'm not sure how Jimmy feels about Thibs but it's not unreasonable to assume that they both would benefit from a reunion. The schedule for Miami is tough. An extended slide for them might be enough to have them embrace a tank job and get off of the 52 million owed to Butler in 25/26.

Miami is in a really weird spot.

Lowry gonna turn 37 this March and has 1 more year on contract. Their young, up and coming center Yurtseven out for a long term (or season)? Duncan Robinson is as useful as Fournier. Tyler Herro has had worse season than RJ, which is saying a LOT. Victor Oladipo hasn't played at all this year.

They got Gabe Vincent and Max Straus on min contracts that need to be extended at end of year.

Bulter just turned 33 and is a bully ball kind of guy. That's a lot of wear and tear with 3 more years left on deal.

Fire Riley? Fire Spoelstra? Fire them all?

Jmpasq wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

You're starting to become skeptical about the FO based on media rumors and nothing special ever happens because we are the Knicks.....LOL

Rose and this front office inherited a team that won 21 games and finished 12th in conference. Trier, Iggy, Ellington, Knox, Frank, Dotson and Harkless as well as an ineffective DSJ were in the rotation - and in many cases getting significant or starter minutes. Ask yourself - how much better is the roster now than the one that was inherited - also factoring in the retained/increased draft assets. Also - was anyone expecting the Knicks to have progressed from a bottom of the bottom feeder into a championship roster after 2 seasons with this FO? Perhaps fans need to put the 2020 COVID season on the shelf as an outlier due to weird circumstances and lower expectations in terms of what progression looks like.

Seems to me that some Knicks fans are caught up in micro analysis instead of macro view. The previous FO tried the Tanking thing....fans were unhappy and it failed. This FO is trying the slow tinkering type build - but its not fast enough for many fans who are impatient and still unhappy.

Let's review the net players that Leon has added to the current roster:

Brunson
Obi
Reddish
I Hart
Rose
Fournier
Sims
Grimes
Deuce

Tinkering involves adjustments to mistakes along the way....and every FO makes some mistakes. But on the whole, with the possible exception of Fournier - these players have all been a net positive upgrade vs. the players inherited by the FO and now discarded. If Rose is sending out feelers to try and leverage some of the current roster for an A Player - I'm all for it - as this is part of what the slow tinkering build process should be.

How did that team even win 21 games? That roster was so bad. The problem is this front office and the previous one missed when there were star players to be had late in the lottery. The team will continue to go nowhere until they get a star through the draft.

The roster was not that bad, Fizdale was just an absolute disaster head coach. We basically have the same starting front court now with Randle, RJ and Mitch

Coaching is so important in the nba and nfl. You go from a totally inept coach like Fizz and start out 4-19, then get better under Mike Miller then 10 games over .500 and playoffs following year with Thibs.

Bottom Line: Fizz is the worst coach I’ve ever seen and I lived through watching Kurt Rambis