martin wrote:I still don't even get why the Spurs have put him on the market. Do they even have another PG on team?

I don’t think they put him on the market. I call bs on Jake’s story.

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:According to a fair few of the podcasters his stats are misleading and they don't seem as high on him as you'd think- there's a reason the Spurs have been happily shopping him the past season or two. Think the argument is he's not a great PG (can't create too well), he's more of a SG that can't shoot or create very efficiently or something. And post ACL tear, he's very overrated as a defender and can't defend PGs. I don't understand it myself!

yeah I thought that's what maybe was going on. thanks

Well, if his stats are misleading, then we definitely should not give up too much for him, but I think he still is probably better than our current PGs. And, he would only cost us about $17 mil per year for the next two years. Much cheaper than Brunson.

martin wrote:

TheGame wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:According to a fair few of the podcasters his stats are misleading and they don't seem as high on him as you'd think- there's a reason the Spurs have been happily shopping him the past season or two. Think the argument is he's not a great PG (can't create too well), he's more of a SG that can't shoot or create very efficiently or something. And post ACL tear, he's very overrated as a defender and can't defend PGs. I don't understand it myself!

yeah I thought that's what maybe was going on. thanks

Well, if his stats are misleading, then we definitely should not give up too much for him, but I think he still is probably better than our current PGs. And, he would only cost us about $17 mil per year for the next two years. Much cheaper than Brunson.

You are quibbling over ~$5+M for 2 years. And then Muarry will be UFA. What's the cost after that for a PG who is not as PG'y as Brunson?

I am not quibbling over $5 million. The Knicks are reportedly going to offer Brunson $25 mil a year. That is a $8 mil difference over the next two years for someone who may not be as good as Murray. Brunson has never averaged 9 assists a game. He only average 6.3 assists without Luka and no one would suggest Brunson is a lockdown defender even if you can say he is solid. Thus, you have to credibly ask is he worth $25 mil a year because that is getting close to max territory. If Murray does not prove to be a long term solution, we have two years to find his replacement but we at least did not pay him the max.

This may all be academic because if Murray costs us 3 picks and we can get Brunson without giving up picks then you have to factor that in. I really am not against Brunson but I also am not sold on him. Knicks should be exploring all options.

smackeddog wrote:According to a fair few of the podcasters his stats are misleading and they don't seem as high on him as you'd think- there's a reason the Spurs have been happily shopping him the past season or two. Think the argument is he's not a great PG (can't create too well), he's more of a SG that can't shoot or create very efficiently or something. And post ACL tear, he's very overrated as a defender and can't defend PGs. I don't understand it myself!

Earlier in the year when it came out that he may be available. His advanced stats came off weaker than I expected honestly. This past season is the first time his offensive rating was better than his defensive rating. Doesn't really hold a high TS%, and this past season is the first time he has held a WS48 over .100(.149). Him not being a strong 3 point shooter. Would need to retool the roster around him since we don't have enough quality shooters to space the floor from our bigs. Just plugging him in with RJ, Randle, Mitch isn't a sure fit.

So IF the Spurs really are willing to move him. They most likely don't love his analytics and feel like they can get someone to overpay for him.

He will also be looking for a max contract the yr after next. So if they don't love him as a franchise player, they would want to max out his value now. Avoiding losing some value by having him be in the final year of his deal.

Would much rather continue to clear cap, sign Brunson or Jones and keep our young guys like RJ, Mitch, Obi and IQ

GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
68 34.8 46.2 32.7 79.4 8.3 9.2 0.3 2.0 2.0 2.6 21.1 (2021-22)
320 25.8 45.5 33.0 77.1 6.0 4.8 0.3 1.4 1.9 1.9 12.5 (Career)

He may be a high usage/volume type of player - but you can't deny his defensive effort, passing numbers and his shooting percentages are decent. He plays downhill as well - which would prob help RJ, Toppin and everyone on the roster under 31.

Philc1 wrote:

TheGame wrote:It seems strange that the Spurs would put him on the market but I have read two different reports stating that he is available at the right price, which is multiple 1st round picks. I think a trade of McBride and 3 first round picks would be enough. They might want IQ instead, but I we give up IQ, then I would only send out 2 first round picks.

Murray and his agent must have told the spurs they want into a bigger market. Also, Spurs really never recovered from waiting too long to try to trade Kawahi Leonard

Makes a ton of sense. Seems like he could well be preferable to Brunson.

Does this give anyone pause about the player?